[H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Bandobras Took
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[H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 4 2018, 2:46

I'm wondering if there's a specific and detailed resource somewhere out there.
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Karmakeld
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Karmakeld » Jun 4 2018, 22:35

I believe the details can be found in the skills table file packed within the game. Basically it lists a number value which determines which skills are likely to be offered to which classes. Atleast that is how I recall it. If you want I can find an image of it for you as well as a guide on how to change those values.
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Bandobras Took
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 5 2018, 0:33

I don't need to change them as such; I just want to know what they are so I can plan a campaign playthrough. :)
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Bandobras Took
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 6 2018, 15:05

There's more to it than probability; doing the first mission of the Elwin campaign, my level up choices for the first ~15 levels were:

Nature Magic/Summoning/Combat
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Bandobras Took
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 6 2018, 15:45

And doing the Bohb campaign of Gathering Storm, upon leveling him up for the first time, my choices were:

Herbalism/Healing/Conjuration

In other words, all three were the spell point skills from basic skills I already had. I don't think that's a coincidence. And I'll attribute the lack of being offered combat to the fact that Bohb doesn't have any available slots.

If I had to guess, whatever probabilities are listed for skills only apply when it's coming up with a completely new skill to offer -- filled out whatever skill you started with and/or combat is off the table.

I'm more interested in the pattern of being offered the secondary and tertiary skills. Is there a way to avoid getting offered Summoning on every single level up as a Druid, for example?
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Beriand
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Beriand » Jun 6 2018, 16:26

This table from Heroes Corner is all I ever seen about this matter. It doesn't show the pictures properly (at least for me) but you can see the "weights" of each skill depending on the hero class on the crossing of primary skills. Can't say how reliable the numbers are nor how they were calculated.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 6 2018, 19:54

Beriand wrote:This table from Heroes Corner is all I ever seen about this matter. It doesn't show the pictures properly (at least for me) but you can see the "weights" of each skill depending on the hero class on the crossing of primary skills. Can't say how reliable the numbers are nor how they were calculated.


Thanks; that's some useful info. The biggest takeaway is that it is weighted toward leveling up skills you already have in your profile as opposed to giving new skills.
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Karmakeld » Jun 10 2018, 22:19

Well if you change the numbers you could change the fact that you would first level up your already chosen skill. To me that only seems as an obvious setting. If you start with Nature skill why shouldn't you be offered more Nature skills?

I'm pretty sure the number are from the in game txt file I mentioned. As you see you will never be offered opposing skills like Necromancers won't be offered Life magic.

As for your Bohb campaign, obviously you can't be offered skills you don't have room for. And as he already starts with skills those are the ones you get offered. I don't recall if he start with all 5 magics, but there's also the map settings of available skills to take into account. Map maker can ban certain skills from being available, but this I recall won't be affected if your hero already has that skill.

Also I recall for the first 2 levels you only get 2 choices. On level 3 you open for a third choice. Most skills are linked within their class, you can right click to read about the advancement requirements. Eg. to advance in Life magic you have to get Basic Healing. Next you need to advance the 3rd Life skill, where as Resurrection (the 4th magic skill) isn't required to advance the other Life skills. Some of the non magic skills are a bit different in their advancement.

I get you point on planning your advancement, but keep in mind both map settings and scripts can be set up to prevent a player from having completely free choice. I recall in Gauldoth's campaign you fight a Druid and storywise he gets inspired by him and takes on learning Nature magic. You can't prevent getting that skill.

Lastly there's always the solution of saving and loading near levels up's in hope of getting better skill choice.
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby wimfrits » Jun 11 2018, 6:52

IIRC you are offered 2 random skills of your class trees and a third random, with a higher chance of getting combat at first.
To optimize Bohb's skills you'll want to only increase existing skills and buy new skills. And mind that you'll get a few skill levels of a specific magic per map.

Because you cannot avoid choosing some new skills at level up, I think the best approach is to invest in the magic specific for that map.

And ofc try to avoid the 4th skill of any tree until you can buy it ;)
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Last edited by wimfrits on Jun 11 2018, 6:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Roman2211
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Re: [H4] What Determines Offered Skills On Level Up?

Postby Roman2211 » Jun 11 2018, 10:33

Save-Load, there will be another skill. And you can set other starting skills for heroes , using a trick in the editor


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