Announcing the H4 Unity project

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Baronus » Apr 7 2016, 6:14

Maybe we create third our campaign but we have work with first! That are only speculations. First we should do one.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Karmakeld » Apr 7 2016, 14:40

Shoot, looks like I'm about to lose my title of being 'Lord of the High-Slung Bottoms of Zob' that came with my 666th post :( Oh well, guess I'll earn myself a new one. Back to the subject..

I do give Marzhin credit for his LotA stories. From what I remember, they were quite good and interesting, but like Derrick, I would prefer to focus on creating our own stories set in the Enroth/Axeoth universe. The LotA stories are already available for those who wish to read them, though I only think half of them was actually finished as playable campaigns. Also I have no idea if they would actually fit H4, as it would also depend on stuff like skills and editor objects, having to match with the LotA scripts/stories (Keep in mind that H7 was modded/had new objects added to fit The Lost Tales..)

Derrick, speaking of creating stories set in the Enroth/Axeoth universe, I'm way ahead of you :-D Oh, wait a second.. Actually you're way ahead of yourself, with that idea ;)
I think both Derrick and I will be busy enough in finishing our own campaign projects, to start speculating in making even more campaigns after the two 'Terry ones'. One thing is writting stories and setting up ideas, another is to actually create the actual campaign.
But let us indeed focus on the Unity campaign for now.
We're close to beginning the actual map making :)

Also I sense that the Every Dog Has It's Day campaign, might be a bit more 'straight forward' as well as a few maps shorter than Unity, so hopefully that one shouldn't take too long.
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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Karmakeld » Apr 7 2016, 21:40

As I can't move posts myself, I'll just copy some posts from the 'Planning' tread, as I would like to separate the two treads, this being for open forum discussions and sharing progress, while the other is intended for 'internal team discussions and ideas/work in progress' stuff.

Erwinner wrote:
guys I personally think some of this sounds a bit overboard, talking about doing all new cinematic intros and main menus and stormy expansion names and all that, don't know if that's necessary or in the spirit of the campaigns,

the two campaigns were intended to exist alongside the original 6 from Heroes 4, if it is even possible to edit the hard code I would literally modify the original campaign screen and insert the new two ones, as if to pretend they were always there,

remember it's ultimately restoring missing content not making a whole new expansion pack content IMO lol

or alternatively just throw them in a folder in maps directory, not as elegant but it is the most natural solution lol


reply from Baronus:
There is no problem. We dont need losing time to discuss simply question. Extracting campaigns using Mh96 there a seconds. We can do it and give all who want. Not elegant version. No name, no graphic, no sounds. Only maps you can play in map folder. But personally I want elegant version. With menu, screens, soundtrack. Movie maybe. The best is new addon. It is beauty game, and it is OUR WORK! That is not missing content, but NON EXISTING! We must do it. Only textes are Terry Ray work. Text is artistic creation. Maps are game creation. So new addon is true description of this situation. Thanks for text:-) We remember it :-)


reply from iLiVeInAbOx05:
That is actually a really good idea. As I stated (possibly in this thread), it just depends on how the game is coded. If it takes a list of the pictures / campaign files and adds them to the display, then it would work nicely once we find all the points that needed an entry.

If not, then it would take some serious work to do any of this stuff.


Personally I envisioned this to be a project for the fans by the fans, therefor I think it's only fair to hear what the community thinks and what they would hope to see with this project, like new campaign pictures, a new expansion or just combined release title, combat heroes looking like Pherlon and Genevieve etc.
Indeed we might find ourself being limitied, if we can't figure out ways to add these ideas, but if the general fan base don't see a need or don't desire to see stuff like this being added, then it would only be for our personal satifaction and not that of the general fan-base, in which case it might not be worth spending too much time, trying to figure out if this or that idea, can be added to the game, at the cost of delaying a release.
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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby GreatEmerald » Apr 8 2016, 7:57

Karmakeld wrote:@GreatEmerald.

The way I see it, Unity and Every Dog Has It's Day, being two seperate campaigns/stories, only being linked by the fact that they were never released, makes it hard to come up with an easy reference name for them both combined, though that's what we've been discussing in the other tread. As I also suggested, I think perhaps one of the few word that describe both really well, is (previously) unreleased ;) But that's not a very useful title :)
But any suggestion is welcomed.


Indeed. Maybe something like "Restoration of Axeoth Project", since when you're done they will become released (just that the maps were restored/recreated).

Karmakeld wrote:I'm not sure I see the need to add LotA, other than Marzhin being the author. I guess you would say they are H5 campaigns set in the world of H4, similar to these two H7 ones, and as they were given the seal of approval, being considered official M&M content, that would justify a H4 version of the LotA aswell..? Hmm.. That would be a HUGE project, which I fear might be too much, considering some of the team members also have other HoMM related project going on, beside this. I can only speak for myself, but planning Unity and Every Dog Has It's Day along with a campaign of my own, is more than enough to kill time with..


Yes, exactly all that, plus the fact that the last two campaigns were never made to begin with; in that sense it's the same as with these ones, we have the script, but not the actual maps. And making the last two in the HoMM4 engine sounds easier than in any other; also you already have official hero portraits and whatnot in the game.

I agree that it's a big undertaking, and only something for consideration after you're done with the first two, but if you were going for an expansion-like addon, then it would make sense to have them all in one. Marzhin's content is considered by him as fanfiction, but it's a really good one, and is concerned exactly with Axeoth and continuing the storyline. Also, that would make it into 6 campaigns, which is how many there are in the base game IIRC.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Baronus » Apr 8 2016, 10:27

We never talk about conversion these. We have work with two now. I never play Heroes V and I know nothing about. I think that Marzhin built good campaigns, he likes HIV, but I dont test it. It may build person who has HIV and HV. If you build campaign based on Marzhin story ok! We add it. But its another project. I think thak good... But we have work with two campaigns. We want build it in this way that they will looks like orginals. So title must be like original. Eg. The Rising Hurricane. Restoriation is not good title because we dont restore game only make expansion. Restoration is a good name eg. for Equilibris. So ORGINAL LOOK IS FIRST, look because all maps will be our creations. But based on original story and three orginal portraits. Thats all original we have. All rest we must build.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Karmakeld » Apr 8 2016, 11:40

The Restoration of Axeoth Project :D Well I have to agree with Baronus on that one. Unlike R.o.Erathia, we're not Restoring Axeoth nor the campaigns, as they never excisted as such :) Also the story of at least Unity, as well as most of the original 6 std. campaigns, takes place shortly after the arrival to Axeoth, so in that regard, I don't see Restoration being a fitting word, but I do apprechiate the suggestion :)

I get your point about the expansion and why you think adding the 4 LotA campaigns, making it an expansion of 6 campaigns. Might seem more like a decent expansion than just 2 campaigns :) It's true that LotA would have similarities, in the way what we would work from partially unreleased scripts which would then have to be worked from. To my knowledge I think Marzhin just released the last two 'books' and perhaps never planned them in details/objective. By for me, I desire to incoorporate objectes, skills, spells etc. which are quite game determined, into the maps/campaigns I make. But that's just the way I prefer it :) Indeed if some were up for the task, I don't think it would be that hard to make a H4 version of LotA. I have no idea what objectives he had in the two released campaigns, but they seemed somewhat 'ordinary' compared to most official Heroes campaign objectives as well as the way he set up the Unity campaign.
Indeed the objectives were already listed in the Unity script, but his interpretation I found to be quite ordinary. I really enjoyed most of the official H4 campaigns, but they were driven mostly by the stories, and not by having original objectives, like you see in some of the top listed fan-made maps or campaigns. When I plan the maps of my own campaign (indeed the first map/only campaign I ever made), I don't want it to be just a number of 'skirmish' like maps, with a story tying them together. I aim for the player to feel they play out the story. And based on the amount and quality of ideas we have for the Unity campaign so far, I hope players will get that feeling; of the story really being incoorporated into the gameplay on several levels. But having to rework LotA the same way.. Pheew.. Of course if the goal would be to just set up the stories in a H4 version, without doing much more than adding the stories of LotA, it could potentially speed up the proccess, but it likely wouldn't resemble the HV versions. Also I just saw that book 4 was never released, so that kinda rules out the idea.. Oh, new title; the Restoration.. or the Completing the LotA :D
But I still agree with iLiVe.. I would find it more interesting to explore the untold stories of Axeoth, rather than re-telling the 3 LotA ones.
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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Apr 8 2016, 15:34

The Restoration of Axeoth doesn't really work as the title of an expansion of ours, but it would certainly fit as the name of our team :D

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Baronus » Apr 8 2016, 18:30

And ,"Restoration of HerIVathia" is reserved. Ive made big mod named RoH.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Karmakeld » Apr 8 2016, 18:34

Well indeed it could be a team name, that would be somewhat fitting :)
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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Taro » Apr 8 2016, 19:01

Let me ask... How much of landscape did you make so far?

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Apr 9 2016, 1:27

Well, in about 15 minutes using the H4MG and then the editor to smooth out the terrain boundaries, I currently have the outline done for the Island of Order (water, beach, and grass for the inner island). In another 5 - 10 minutes, I'll have another portion of the high level island design done.

And if I mess up, it's no biggie. It's so easy to paint the high level design that if I see something that would have been better to do regarding the terrain placement, it only took me a few minutes in the first place, so I can just do it again.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Taro » Apr 9 2016, 8:36

Good to read it. Well, I will create my scenario "entirely by hand". No brushes and other helping stuff. But I believe it's up to mapmaker and his intuition how to do his work, so it's fine for me. I made about 10% of a map (not only environment, but creatures, treasures and adventure obcjects as well) so I believe it will be ready in a month.

It's a petty Duezom isn't with us. I'd like to get his help.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Baronus » Apr 9 2016, 10:02

Duezom created his addon. So if he wants work on map Im absolutly pro.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby GreatEmerald » Apr 9 2016, 15:19

Karmakeld wrote:Also I just saw that book 4 was never released, so that kinda rules out the idea..


I'm not sure where you looked, because it certainly was released :P http://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/a ... mplete.pdf (176 and onward)

As for the interactiveness or closeness to the MMH7/5 version, I personally wouldn't mind it going either way. For me, the story is the important part, gameplay is more of a bonus. And I feel that the MMH7/5 versions would rather be suited to act as inspiration/source of intent, because I don't think you can apply the gameplay as-is anyway.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Apr 9 2016, 19:26

Technically I'm also doing it by hand, I just have a bigger brush size for terrain ;)

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Karmakeld » Apr 10 2016, 22:56

Karmakeld wrote:Also I just saw that book 4 was never released, so that kinda rules out the idea..

GreatEmerald wrote:I'm not sure where you looked, because it certainly was released :P http://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/a ... mplete.pdf (176 and onward)


Oh thank you :) I found it here http://lota.celestialheavens.com/goodies.html and this file only goes to page 180, meaning book 3 is the last book (this one ought to either be updated or linked to the complete version).

I just had a glimse at some of the pages, and indeed I think I could make the story of my personal campaign, fit in between the original campaigns and Marzhin's LotA story, for both Gauldoth and Von Tarkin, but that's a bit off topic here.

As for the interactiveness or closeness to the MMH7/5 version, I personally wouldn't mind it going either way. For me, the story is the important part, gameplay is more of a bonus. And I feel that the MMH7/5 versions would rather be suited to act as inspiration/source of intent, because I don't think you can apply the gameplay as-is anyway.


I think you're quite right about applying/comparing the gameplay with H4. As for creating something similar to the released LotA campaigns, someone would have to be able to view the actual maps or objectives. The main difference between them, is that LotA is pure story text, while the Unity script indeed lists map objectives and more. But as you say, they might as well just be open for interpretation, regarding objectives, landscaping etc.
Reading just a bit of the 4th book, I'm beginning to see your point, as to why you suggested LotA. Especially the stories involving Gauldoth (whom to my knowledge was a general fan favorite), might spawn some fan interest.

About story vs gameplay I believe there are mixed opinions. Some play for the story, others simply skip it and focus on gameplay, so I believe the balance lies somewhere in the middle :) I just personally like it, when there's at least some linkage between the story and the map/map objectives. You don't really buy it, if the story takes place in a desert, which you must find a way through in order to survive, but the landscape is filled with snow and the objective is to capture all enemy town, do you ;) Also the story really has to get a hold of you, if the game play doesn't.
But indeed, with a decent team and some simple objectives, producing the four campaigns might not be that big of a task after all, but I don't really sense much support within our current team to take on the task of creating 4x H4 LotA campaigns, also in consideration that some of the team members have other time consuming projects going on, beside this. But I can only encourage you, GreatEmerald, to follow up on the idea. Keeping the maps and objectives somewhat simple, will greatly reduce the amount of scripting needed and thus speed up the process. Of course finding a good team might be a challenge, but if tasks can be divided between team-members, I think people are generally willing to offer help in certain areas.


About the team name, is there a general support for the name 'The Restoration of Axeoth team'? Or 'Team for the Restoration of Axeoth'?


@Taro, regarding map making, the next thing on my list before I'll begin the landscaping, is to add the remaining 'High level map notes' (with emphasis on locations/important stuff that must be represented in the maps). All events and notes have been added. I'm gonna have a busy week, this next week - long work hours as well as weekend work, so I'm not sure if I have time to start landscaping, but otherwise I plan on starting next week. But your time-scheduale sounds very good :)
I get your point regarding Duzeom, but tbh. I have my doubts that he would be interested in this project, given that it's a somewhat different map making setup, than what he desired for his Collaborative Campaign proposal, as well the fact that we work on an already written story.
I would also have liked to have Dr. Marsupio on the team. I tried contacting both as we got started, but sadly neither of them seems to have been active on CH for the past months.
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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby cuc » Apr 12 2016, 0:56

Baronus wrote:Name of this addon must be like in orginal.
Gatehering Storm.
Winds o war.
Aprroachig Hurricane?

"The Gathering Storm" is named after the first book in Churchill's WWII memoirs, and "Winds of War" is from a well-known historical novel on WWII. If your idea is for a title themed after the expansion packs, it should come from a similar book.
Last edited by cuc on Apr 13 2016, 0:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Apr 12 2016, 1:21

Hmm, I think just "The Restoration of Axeoth" works great without any additions :D If we add Team to the front or the back, it sounds a little forced in my opinion. I think "The Restoration of Axeoth" stands well by itself (thanks GreatEmerald!)

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby Taro » Apr 12 2016, 3:57

Karmakeld, what do you mean by 'High level map notes'? I made about 40% of the mainland, and you are not going to tell what to put, are you?

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Re: Announcing the H4 Unity project

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Apr 12 2016, 14:12

He is talking about objectives and things that need to be on each map based on the story and discussions. It mostly has to do with the map objectives. As long as you have been making your map according to the objectives and to fit the story, then just keep on moving forward.

No one is going to tell you where to put the various objectives, the level design is completely for you to decide.


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