Call to H-IV mapmakers - AI enchancing scripts

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Karmakeld
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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 5 2015, 11:10

So we check IF This Army has Warlords Ring, then IF number of heroes is greater or equal to 2, Then IF Strongest hero has Offense (offense mastery greater than 0), IF true, then IF hero has GM Offense, else M Offense, else E Offense, else A Offense or B Offense. IF NOT Strongest Hero have Offense, then the same check for Weakest hero (ELSE do nothing). IF either of the heroes have Offense, THEN Take Warlords Ring from this army and give it to either Strongest or Weakest hero. Now if there are more than 2 heroes, it becomes more complicated to check, as we can only check for Strongest, Weakest and First hero in army. Also if the heroes switches army the script is lost/moved, so the ideal thing would be scripts on Heroes.

Or If we have 2 heroes, one with high Tactic skills and the other with high Combat skills, and they carried Robe of the Guardian and the Tiger Set, we might see that best solution would be to give the strong Combat hero the Tiger Set to make a Powerful one-man army and the Tactic's hero the Robe to prolong the tactic bonuses for their troops, provided of course they bring atleast a minimum of 100 level 1 troops or a number of level 4 troops, in order for their troops to have a reasonable benfit from the statbonuses compared to the opponents number of Faerie Dragons.
But as we know that the Combat hero has GM Archery and the Tactic hero is 85% immune to spells (due to Cloak), and both heroes being lvl 22, we decide to boost the heroes speed, thus enabling them to act faster than the group of Faerie Dragons and most likely they'll be able to kill atleast 3/4 of the Faerie Dragons before they can even act. Now as we also know the Tactic hero has Master Chaos we give him a scroll of Spell Shackles, in the hope that he'll use it, causing the Faerie Dragons to use melee attack instead of spells. This we find more reasonable against THAT opponent, rather than giving the Tactic hero Warlords Ring and Robe of the Guardian.

Can you guys see where I'm going at???? ;| :tired:
I think we're shooting Sparrows with Cannons here (as I've stated earlier).
And on this point I'm actually beginning to see Duzeom concern wheter the game will be able to run a 100+ Conditional scripts before each AI combat.
I say, let's keep it simple, this will also help to avoid game crashes and a risk of instability.

Regarding the pre-set artifacts I discussed this with my gf, and she said something interesting. If you play BlackJack with only half a deck of cards, at some point most players will realize they can never get BlackJack with the Spades, as the Ace of Spade is missing.
We would need quite a high amount of random sets, for players not to be able to quickly know which artifacts the AI heroes is carrying. Skilled players will use this to plan which hero/troops to bring to battle against which AI hero. And once you've played the first couple of maps and encountered the same 10 pre-sets on different heroes, won't it get repeatative?
Unless it's ofcourse randomly set before each battle and not at the start of the game. Just something to take into consideration.
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Postby PatFX » Jun 5 2015, 15:19

Can you guys see where I'm going at????


I can see and I agree.... It can become a real nightmare for scripting. Lets keep it simple first and then we will see if we can add some simple script.

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Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Jun 5 2015, 18:36

Karmakeld wrote:Regarding the pre-set artifacts I discussed this with my gf, and she said something interesting. If you play BlackJack with only half a deck of cards, at some point most players will realize they can never get BlackJack with the Spades, as the Ace of Spade is missing.
We would need quite a high amount of random sets, for players not to be able to quickly know which artifacts the AI heroes is carrying. Skilled players will use this to plan which hero/troops to bring to battle against which AI hero. And once you've played the first couple of maps and encountered the same 10 pre-sets on different heroes, won't it get repeatative?
Unless it's ofcourse randomly set before each battle and not at the start of the game. Just something to take into consideration.


It's really just a difficulty setting. It's (slightly) more difficult to defeat a hero with pertinent artifacts than a hero with no artifacts (everything else being equal).

Why would it matter if the player is able to figure out what artifacts the hero is carrying? Can you give an example, please? If the hero is defeated / retreats, a new artifact set could be selected. If the set is selected on encounter, then it would not work with the changing out artifacts for better ones.

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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 5 2015, 22:36

Well first off I thought it was agreed that pre setting artifacts and replacing artifacts had 2 different purposes. One was to improve AI the other was to more directly increase difficulty. I can't give you an example of why it would matter. I think it's a good Idea to increase difficulty and I've used preset artifacts myself, my point was merely, if Champion players were to encounter 5 different artifact settings (e.g set on Day 1), I would asume that some players would pick up some tricks on How to most easily defeat a given set. Now I realize that skill combinations as well as troops and spells is likely to ensure 2 opponents aren't alike.
It was merely a what IF thought...
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Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Jun 6 2015, 3:56

Karmakeld wrote:Well first off I thought it was agreed that pre setting artifacts and replacing artifacts had 2 different purposes. One was to improve AI the other was to more directly increase difficulty. I can't give you an example of why it would matter.


It was, but then the idea (I don't remember who it came from) came up that if the artifacts were set once at the beginning, rather than on encounter, that they could work together.

Karmakeld wrote:I think it's a good Idea to increase difficulty and I've used preset artifacts myself, my point was merely, if Champion players were to encounter 5 different artifact settings (e.g set on Day 1), I would asume that some players would pick up some tricks on How to most easily defeat a given set. Now I realize that skill combinations as well as troops and spells is likely to ensure 2 opponents aren't alike.
It was merely a what IF thought...


I see what you mean. But, doesn't that mean it would still make it more difficult if they had to come up with some tricks? ;)

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Postby Taro » Jun 6 2015, 7:51

Dalai, can you tell more about this tool? Will it be some in game option? Or something that will change a map file before opening a game? Will it work with campaigns as well?

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Postby Dalai » Jun 10 2015, 16:25

PatFX wrote:That's why for maximizing, you must give all artifact that boost creatures's luck/moral/defense/attack/speed to the hero with the highest tactics skill (usually the same hero). (obviously, if you have 2 tactic hero, 1 level 25 with basic leadership and 1 level 10 with expert leadership, you should give all item with bonus to moral/luck to the level 10 hero, not to the highest level hero)
There are situations when this rule produces suboptimal result. For example, you may want to sacrifice some attack bonus for ability to use a wand by your tactician. So you give your Axe Of Legends to your mage instead of stacking it with +20% Advanced Attack bonus from Tactician's skills, but your tactician can do something in battle.

Taro wrote:Dalai, can you tell more about this tool? Will it be some in game option? Or something that will change a map file before opening a game? Will it work with campaigns as well?
Most probably it will be a separate tool to work with maps before opening them in game. Campaigns can be worked with.

I am still waiting for Namerutan to come back. When he does, he will tell you more.

Karmakeld wrote:I think we're shooting Sparrows with Cannons here (as I've stated earlier).
We here have an identical proverb! It's amazing!

Karmakeld wrote:And on this point I'm actually beginning to see Duzeom concern wheter the game will be able to run a 100+ Conditional scripts before each AI combat.
I say, let's keep it simple, this will also help to avoid game crashes and a risk of instability.
Yep :proud:
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Postby PatFX » Jun 18 2015, 13:52

Hi guys, here is my list for weapons:

Tiger set

Sword of the God (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly)
Angel’s Blade (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly vs Death) (if opposing troop is Death)
Axe of Legend (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
True Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
Crusader’s Mace (+30% friendly)

Bull Rune Battleaxe (+50 attack)
Frost Hammer (+25 attack, frost)
Tunder Hammer (+8 attack, 70 damage + 7/level)
Halberd of the Swiftwatch (+25 attack, +2 speed, negate first strike, 2 yard attack)
Saint Ranan’s Staff (double healing, 20% resurrect)
Flaming Sword (+3 attack/defense, 30 damage + 3/level)
Sword of Swiftness (+6 attack/defense, extra melee attack)
Soul Stealer (+4 attack/defense, heal 1 HP/2 HP of damage)
False Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack/defense)
Staff of Disruption (+10 spell point, ignore Ward)
Staff of Power (reduce all cost by 1/3)
GreatSword (+13 attack)
Dwarven Hammer (+10 attack)
Axe (+8 attack, -1 speed)
Giant Slayer (+3 attack/defense, double damage to level4)
Angel’s Blade (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly vs Death)
Longsword (+3 attack/defense)
Tyran’s Dagger of Despair (sorrow)
Flame of Chaos (Order Ward, cold resist, -2 Chaos spell casting cost)
Mayhem Staff (+50% Chaos direct damage)
Staff of Death (+50% power of death spell)
Staff of Wizardry (reduce 50% Order spell)
Staff of Summoning (reduce 50% cost of summoning)

What do you think?

Some weapons are two-hand, so if we give back (with the script) shield before weapon and a shield is equip, no two hand can be equip. The same is true if you give back weapon first and equip a two hand weapon, then no shield can be equip.

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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 22 2015, 8:43

I would Place Saint Ranan's Staff among the other staffs in the bottom, simply coz it's only useful IF the hero has healing spells and doesn't affect undead and elemental creatures. AI might not have statistically carry many elementals but I think it's target group is too small for it's current placement. Not sure if I would also move Staff of Power down, at least below Dwarven Hammer.
Also I'll stop repeating myself regarding 'IF artifacts'...
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Postby PatFX » Jun 22 2015, 14:20

At the beginning, I had place the Saint Ranan's Staff exacly where you said (because I personnaly don't like 2 hand weapon), then I change it because I tought that it could be usefull for resurect, but I agree, the target group is small. For Staff of Power - OK.... And for the only "IF", it's OK with me, but this weapon (Angel's Blade) can be really good vs death.... let's say we don't use any "IF".

New weapon list sould look like this:

Tiger set

Sword of the God (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly)
Axe of Legend (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
True Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
Crusader’s Mace (+30% friendly)

Bull Rune Battleaxe (+50 attack)
Frost Hammer (+25 attack, frost)
Tunder Hammer (+8 attack, 70 damage + 7/level)
Halberd of the Swiftwatch (+25 attack, +2 speed, negate first strike, 2 yard attack)
Flaming Sword (+3 attack/defense, 30 damage + 3/level)
Sword of Swiftness (+6 attack/defense, extra melee attack)
Soul Stealer (+4 attack/defense, heal 1 HP/2 HP of damage)
False Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack/defense)
Staff of Disruption (+10 spell point, ignore Ward)
GreatSword (+13 attack)
Dwarven Hammer (+10 attack)
Staff of Power (reduce all cost by 1/3)
Axe (+8 attack, -1 speed)
Giant Slayer (+3 attack/defense, double damage to level4)
Angel’s Blade (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly vs Death)
Longsword (+3 attack/defense)
Tyran’s Dagger of Despair (sorrow)
Saint Ranan’s Staff (double healing, 20% resurrect)
Flame of Chaos (Order Ward, cold resist, -2 Chaos spell casting cost)
Mayhem Staff (+50% Chaos direct damage)
Staff of Death (+50% power of death spell)
Staff of Wizardry (reduce 50% Order spell)
Staff of Summoning (reduce 50% cost of summoning)

What do you think?

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Postby PatFX » Jun 22 2015, 15:11

Misc list:

Encounter script:

Flaming Arrow (3*3 yard)
Maranthea's Mug (+3 moral)
Spider's Silk Arrow (Bind)
Arrow of Stunning
Arrow of Slaying (Slayer)
Four Leaf Clover (+1 luck)
Gambler's Deck (+1 luck)
Horshoes ((+1 luck)
Crest of Valor (+1 moral)
Crystal of Memory (Immune to Forgetfulness)
Poison Arrow (poison)
Shackles of War (no retreat or surrender)
Badge of Courage (immune to fear)
....then, all non-combat misc artifact (see Victorious srcipt below)


Victorious script:

Viewing Crystal (+2 scouting radius)
Telescope (+1 scouting radius)
Sextant (+50% movement over sea)
Sack of Gold (750 gold)
Bag of Gold (500 gold)
Purse of Gold (250 gold)
Purse of Penny Pinching (25% discount)
Cart of Lumber (+2 wood)
Cart of Ore (+2 Ore)
Gem Casket (+1 gem)
Flask of Mercury (+1 mercury)
Crystal Figurine (+1 crystal)
Brazier of Sulfur (+1 sulfur)
.....then all combat misc artifact (see encounter script)


There should be a victorious script for misc, boots, neck and ring artifact. Maybe we can skip the victorious script for boots (only 1 item is usefull in combat, Winged Sandals) and the Rings (only 1 item is usefull on the map, Equestrian Gloves). For Neck (Neckalce of Charm, Statesman's Medal), it can be really usefull because charm and diplomacy act before the encounter script (that means you can get creatures, then equip some good neck artifact for combat on the encounter script).

What do you think?

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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 22 2015, 15:56

A FEW IF's can be okay I guess, at times where it'll make sense and still be easy/simple to check/script the check. Angel's Blade could be one of those I guess. But it's also much easier to check and assume the bonus will be useful if AI has ward artifacts and we check for opposing alignment. However there is another IF which will be complex to check. What if an Order hero with 6 order troops have 1 slot of death aligned troops in his army and AI has Angels blade? Then Angels Blade is only useful against 1 stack. It would be a shame if AI also carried another (% bonus) artifact which would be effective against all 7 troops.
I think your new list is okay.

I'm not quite sure if there is any of the IF artifacts, we can be sure will be 100% useful if the IF is true. I mean if an artifact have only 1 IF in order to guarantee a high percentage of usefulness, then I think the IF could be okay.
If not, we should rank it low.
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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 22 2015, 16:22

About weapons, I'd say the opposite of what Karmakeld said. In your list, the magic-related weapons are underestimated if anything. Heroes rarely fight in melee, and if they do, they're on the losing end of it. Meanwhile a lot of heroes know at least one school of magic. And Resurrection is useful for everyone, even Death, so definitely don't put St. Ranan's staff so low.

I'd put all staves at least above Axe.

About misc... Put the Arrow of Stunning and Poison Arrow higher, I'd say even at the top. I'd put the luck items slightly higher, too. I'd put the Crystal of Memory and Badge of Courage above the Crest of Valor.

The adventure items... I'd put the Sextant at the very bottom, because water levels aren't very common. I also wonder of Purse of Penny Pinching even does anything for AI. I'd also say a Sack of Gold is worth more than a Telescope.

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Postby PatFX » Jun 22 2015, 19:12

About weapons, I'd say the opposite of what Karmakeld said. In your list, the magic-related weapons are underestimated if anything. Heroes rarely fight in melee, and if they do, they're on the losing end of it. Meanwhile a lot of heroes know at least one school of magic. And Resurrection is useful for everyone, even Death, so definitely don't put St. Ranan's staff so low.

I'd put all staves at least above Axe.


Personnaly (after few minutes to think about it), I think that the St. Ranan's staff can be really usefull in most scenario. The ressurect can save a lot of creatures to AI.

About, the other Staff, I don't know.... I personnaly don't like 2 hand (because you lose your shield)..... In my opinion (if we don't want to do a lot of "IF"), the target group of the other staff are too small even if they can be really usefull.... but if the hero has chaos spell for exemple, the Mayhem Staff will be better than a Sword of Swiftness... but if the hero has no Chaos spell, this staff is worst than a Tyran's dagger of despair.....

...mmmm..... this is not an easy call. In my opinion , I would keep those staff at the end.... (but I'm only a Leprechaun :) )


What do you think about this list :

Tiger set

Sword of the God (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly)
Axe of Legend (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
True Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
Crusader’s Mace (+30% friendly)

Bull Rune Battleaxe (+50 attack)
Frost Hammer (+25 attack, frost)
Tunder Hammer (+8 attack, 70 damage + 7/level)
Halberd of the Swiftwatch (+25 attack, +2 speed, negate first strike, 2 yard attack)
Flaming Sword (+3 attack/defense, 30 damage + 3/level)
Sword of Swiftness (+6 attack/defense, extra melee attack)
Soul Stealer (+4 attack/defense, heal 1 HP/2 HP of damage)
False Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack/defense)
Staff of Disruption (+10 spell point, ignore Ward)
Saint Ranan’s Staff (double healing, 20% resurrect)
GreatSword (+13 attack)
Dwarven Hammer (+10 attack)
Staff of Power (reduce all cost by 1/3)
Mayhem Staff (+50% Chaos direct damage)
Staff of Death (+50% power of death spell)
Staff of Wizardry (reduce 50% Order spell)
Staff of Summoning (reduce 50% cost of summoning)
Axe (+8 attack, -1 speed)
Giant Slayer (+3 attack/defense, double damage to level4)
Angel’s Blade (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly vs Death)
Longsword (+3 attack/defense)
Tyran’s Dagger of Despair (sorrow)
Flame of Chaos (Order Ward, cold resist, -2 Chaos spell casting cost)



One thing we will need to decide first is:
A- Do we give weapon first or shield first in the script. If we give weapon first and a two hand weapon is give to the hero, then no shield can be equip.
If we give the shield first and the hero has Halberd of the Swiftwatch for exemple, the Halberd of the Swiftwatch will not be equip.

OR

B- Do we give good left hand artifact first (for exemple: all shield that give +% defense to all friendly), then weapon, then all other left hand artifact.


Personnaly, I think we should give good left hand artifact first (B) (without any "if") because of the usefull of the shield on a tactic hero, then give weapon and then give all other left hand artifact.


Now, let's look at 2 different scenario. For both scenario, the hero has those artifact: Adamantin Shield, Staff of Power and Longsword.

Scenario #1 (script A with weapon first):
Results: the hero will be equip with Staff of Power only (with Adamantine Shield and Longsword in the backpack)

Scenario#2 (script B with good left hand first, then weapon...):
Results: the hero will be equip with Adamantin Shield and Longsword (with Staff of Power in his backpack)


Regarding Misc list:
About misc... Put the Arrow of Stunning and Poison Arrow higher, I'd say even at the top. I'd put the luck items slightly higher, too. I'd put the Crystal of Memory and Badge of Courage above the Crest of Valor.

The adventure items... I'd put the Sextant at the very bottom, because water levels aren't very common. I also wonder of Purse of Penny Pinching even does anything for AI. I'd also say a Sack of Gold is worth more than a Telescope.


Arrow of Stunning higher? You mean before Flaming Arrow, Maranthea's Mug, Spider's Silk Arrow?? Do I miss something about this Arrow?? The only time it look to work is when there is only few creatures in the stack attack by the hero. I don't think I understand the algorithm behind this item.

Regarding Poison Arrow, I agree it can be higher in the list but why at the top? Do I miss something here too??

Luck item higher too?? You mean just before Arrow of Slaying probably?

In my opinion, the 3 first in the list are good (Flaming Arrow, Maranthea's Mug and Spider's Silk Arrow). I know that you don't like moral for AI GreatEmerald, but I don't agree. For the other item, it tooks me almost 1 hour to decide because I prefer by far luck item over Stunning and Slayer Arrow, but equip on a non-tactic hero, it can be totaly useless (if there is a tactic hero in the troop). Maybe I miss something about Stunning Arrow and Poison Arrow.

Crystal of Memory is so good vs Order alignement (with ranged creatures in my troop), but useless most of the time (small target group). Badge of Courage is the worst of all in my opinion (smallest target group and less usefull). Shackle of War can be usefull if the AI face a scouting hero (prevent him to retreat).

Regarding adventure items: I agree for Sextant. About Purse of Penny Pinching, I really don't know if it do anything for the AI???? (Anyone already test this before??). About Telescope, I just know that every scouting radius item looks to help the AI on the adventure map.

What do you think about this list:

Encounter script:

Flaming Arrow (3*3 yard)
Maranthea's Mug (+3 moral)
Spider's Silk Arrow (Bind)
Arrow of Stunning
Poison Arrow (poison) ??? Do I miss something ???
Four Leaf Clover (+1 luck)
Gambler's Deck (+1 luck)
Horshoes (+1 luck)
Arrow of Slaying (Slayer)
Crystal of Memory (Immune to Forgetfulness)
Crest of Valor (+1 moral)
Shackles of War (no retreat or surrender)
Badge of Courage (immune to fear)
....then, all non-combat misc artifact (see Victorious srcipt below)


Victorious script:

Viewing Crystal (+2 scouting radius)
Sack of Gold (750 gold)
Bag of Gold (500 gold)
Purse of Gold (250 gold)
Telescope (+1 scouting radius)
Purse of Penny Pinching (25% discount) ?????? Usefull fo AI ?????
Cart of Lumber (+2 wood)
Cart of Ore (+2 Ore)
Gem Casket (+1 gem)
Flask of Mercury (+1 mercury)
Crystal Figurine (+1 crystal)
Brazier of Sulfur (+1 sulfur)
Sextant (+50% movement over sea)
.....then all combat misc artifact (see encounter script)

What do you guys think??

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 22 2015, 20:52

Hm, looking at it (your new lists) even more closely, I noticed some more things.

Weapons: keeping in mind that attack isn't as useful as defence (especially for all the magic heroes), I'd rearrange some items. The Axe isn't as useful as the Giant Slayer and Angel's Blade in that regard. In fact, it's probably not as useful as the Longsword, either. Then, the Greatsword is two-handed, so I'd put it below the Dwarven Hammer. The staves... It's a good point that they're two-handed, and probably in the generic case it's better to have Angel's Blade and Giant Slayer (but not Axe) than staves other than Power and St. Ranan. And in general I'd put Angel's Blade above the Giant Slayer (the latter only works on the hero, who isn't supposed to attack fourth-level creatures to begin with). Then, St. Ranan's staff should be even higher up, above False Gryphonheart Blade, I'd say.

As for ordering, yes, that's a good question. I'd prefer to make use of the off-hand first too. But how does replacing work for AI? Would your scenario #2 work as you said, or would it result in the hero having the Staff of Power anyway (because it could ignore the off-hand entirely when given)?

For Arrow of Stunning, it certainly works on weaker stacks, but that's still very useful, and I think that's generally what AI heroes aim for. And Poison is very useful during sieges, on either side.

I don't like the morale items, as you noted, so I guess we can leave that aside. The Flaming Arrow sure sounds nice, but doesn't it also affect friendly creatures? And is the AI even aware of how to use it effectively, or does it just use it as regular ranged shot?

Luck items as in your list look good. The Arrow of Slaying is very circumstantial (the hero must have Ranged and the target must be level 4) while luck is universal and very useful.

Badge of Courage I believe works not only for the titular Fear, but also Aura of Fear, which is a pretty common Death spell. Perhaps some other spells too? For instance, Cowardice? Meanwhile Shackles of War for AI sounds overall terrible, because the AI uses surrendering and running quite often and quite well. Plus it would negate the diplomacy items.

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Postby PatFX » Jun 22 2015, 21:03

Few little things I want to talk to you about the artifact script:

1- You know that if the hero has few items of the same type (for exemple: 3 Longsword, 1 equip and 2 in the backpack) and you remove a Longsword with a script, the first Longsword that will be remove is one in the backpack. So we will need to remove few time the same item to be sure that we remove the equip item. For some item, it's totally useless fo the AI to have few item of the same type (exemple: Longsword, Arrow of Slaying, shield.....), so we can give back only 1 item of that type.

What item could we remove and then only give back 1. For exemple, I remove 4 Longsword with the script, but I give back only one at the end.

Can someone do a list of all the item that you don't want the AI to get few? Anyone??? If no one want to do the list, I will do it later.


2- Some kit are usefull for the computer, but some other are not really good:
In my opinion, Tiger set, Dark Priest and Archmage set are good. The Harmonic Chainmail set is not bad (but not really good) because the Song of peace bonus works only for melee damage. The Wizard set (Necklace of Balance, the Flame of Chaos, and the Ice Scales) is bad (magic mirror bonus)

So I think we should look only for the 3 good set (Tiger set, Dark Priest and Archmage) and don't care about the 2 other.

So remove all item with the script,then set 3 variable (vTigerSet, vDarkPriest and vArchmage) if those set are complet, then give back item starting with those set and then give back all other item.

Do you agree?

3- If a hero has 2 or more different complet set, what is the priority for Set?

4- If a hero has the Robe of the Guardian and the Archmage set or the DarkPriest set, should we give the Robe of the Guardian or the set first? Personnaly, I would give Robe of the guardian first.

Do you agree?

If we want to give the Robe of the guardian first, we will need to do something after all item are remove when we set the variables for Set (for DarkPriest set and Archmage set):

For Exemple:
If vRobeGuadian = 0 AND vRingOfLight = 1 AND vCloakDarkness = 1, then set vDarkPriest set to 1.

this conditionnal action is to prevent the script to equip the Robe of the Guardian and then equip all item of the set, because if we don't do that, for the Archmage set, the script will equip the Robe of the Guardian, then equip all item of the Archmage set (except for the Angelfeather Cloak that will be put in the backpack, so no bonus set).

So if the hero has the Robe of the Guardian, the variable vDarkPriest and vArchmage (for the two set) will not be set to 1.

The give back artifact script will look like this (if you agree that the Robe of the Guardian has the highest priority):

If vRobeGuardian = 1, then give Robe of the Guardian
If vArchmage = 1, then give Archmage's Hat, the Staff of Disruption, the Wayfaring Boots, the Ring of Flares, and the Angelfeather Cloak
If vDarkPriest = 1, give........

This way, if the hero has the Robe of the Guardian, the Archmage set and Helm of command for exemple, the hero will be equip with Robe of the guardian and Helm of Command (higher priority over Archmage's Hat)
instead of be equip with all the Archmage set except for the Angelfeather Cloak.


When the left hand artifact list will be completed (soon), we will do a resume of all the lists. (if someone want to start to resume all the list, I would really appreciate) Anyone???

Then, if you want, I can do the script with the map Editor on 1 hero, and then send it to all of you by e-mail for testing. We can easily copy/paste the hero with the map editor, then merge few heroes at the beginning of the game (testing) and test the script with different item on each hero.

Right now, I'm testing/finishing an old map that I did start designing like 12 years ago (I did stop playing/design/testing for few years then come back to work), so I'm playing with a non-equilibris version. I will need to download the equilibris version for the few new artifact and then I will do the Script.

To Dalai: Do you have any special recommendation before I start scripting???

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Postby PatFX » Jun 22 2015, 21:37

Weapons: keeping in mind that attack isn't as useful as defence


I totally agree!

The Axe isn't as useful as the Giant Slayer and Angel's Blade in that regard. In fact, it's probably not as useful as the Longsword, either. Then, the Greatsword is two-handed, so I'd put it below the Dwarven Hammer. The staves... It's a good point that they're two-handed, and probably in the generic case it's better to have Angel's Blade and Giant Slayer (but not Axe) than staves other than Power and St. Ranan. And in general I'd put Angel's Blade above the Giant Slayer (the latter only works on the hero, who isn't supposed to attack fourth-level creatures to begin with). Then, St. Ranan's staff should be even higher up, above False Gryphonheart Blade, I'd say.


I agree with all. I will do the modification to the list.

But how does replacing work for AI? Would your scenario #2 work as you said, or would it result in the hero having the Staff of Power anyway (because it could ignore the off-hand entirely when given)?


The scenario #2 works like I said. When we give an item, if the slot is already use by an other item (for exemple a two hand weapon give to a hero that already have a shield), the item will go in the backpack.


The Flaming Arrow sure sounds nice, but doesn't it also affect friendly creatures? And is the AI even aware of how to use it effectively, or does it just use it as regular ranged shot?


Yes, it can affect friendly creatures. The AI use it effectively, he will try to hit 3 differenst creatures if he can.

Badge of Courage I believe works not only for the titular Fear, but also Aura of Fear, which is a pretty common Death spell. Perhaps some other spells too? For instance, Cowardice? Meanwhile Shackles of War for AI sounds overall terrible, because the AI uses surrendering and running quite often and quite well. Plus it would negate the diplomacy items.


Regarding the Shackle of War, I agree, the AI use it quite well. Regarding Badge of Courage, I don't know. Few creatures are already immune to Fear (mechanical, undead), sometime fear (bone dragon) attack a range that run away and the range creature can attack with his range attack.... only usefull vs death hero.... For other spell (Cowardice) I don't think so (I will need to test it). The only things that prevent I think are : Amulet of Fear, Bone dragon, Death Fear spell and Hideous Mask.

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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 23 2015, 8:44

It's not easy to keep a good overview when writing on your phone, so I hope I can remember the subjects to comment.
I would also Place Robe of Guardian at top, set or no set. In general I like your proposal regarding how artifacts is ranked if set items aren't to be used.
Regarding Staffs (saint ran an in particular) we have 10 potential shields giving 20%-50% increased defense vs. 20% resurrection. Perhaps a test could show which would be generally most effective if we don't just make a calculation and throw in some arms?
I agree to put shields before 2 handed weapons, again with the chances of % bonuses vs some bonus that often only affect the hero.
I recall we stated earlier/in another tread that cowardice is a mind spell, so I would also agree to place badge of courage low.
I think it would be okay to leave some artifacts in AI's backpack/out of their use. Purse of penny.., Shackles of War and similar or at least keep those at the bottom.
Regarding multiple artifacts, all artifacts ranked Artifact can be purchased in Blacksmith, so I see no use to keep more than one of those. But major, treasure etc I wouldn't take away the extras. If AI carries 2 Helm of Command, wouldn't the player like to get hold of both?
I'm silent in seven languages - and I got all my familys fear.

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Postby PatFX » Jun 23 2015, 14:37

New weapon list (with defense priority over attack damage for low level weapon):

Sword of the God (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly)
Axe of Legend (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
True Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack, +40% friendly)
Crusader’s Mace (+30% friendly)

Bull Rune Battleaxe (+50 attack)
Frost Hammer (+25 attack, frost)
Tunder Hammer (+8 attack, 70 damage + 7/level)
Halberd of the Swiftwatch (+25 attack, +2 speed, negate first strike, 2 yard attack)
Flaming Sword (+3 attack/defense, 30 damage + 3/level)
Sword of Swiftness (+6 attack/defense, extra melee attack)
Soul Stealer (+4 attack/defense, heal 1 HP/2 HP of damage)
Saint Ranan’s Staff (double healing, 20% resurrect)
False Gryphonheart Blade (+8 attack/defense)
Staff of Disruption (+10 spell point, ignore Ward)
Staff of Power (reduce all cost by 1/3)
Angel’s Blade (+3 attack/defense, +50% friendly vs Death)
Giant Slayer (+3 attack/defense, double damage to level4)
Longsword (+3 attack/defense)
Mayhem Staff (+50% Chaos direct damage)
Staff of Death (+50% power of death spell)
Staff of Wizardry (reduce 50% Order spell)
Staff of Summoning (reduce 50% cost of summoning)
Dwarven Hammer (+10 attack)
GreatSword (+13 attack)
Axe (+8 attack, -1 speed)
Tyran’s Dagger of Despair (sorrow)
Flame of Chaos (Order Ward, cold resist, -2 Chaos spell casting cost)

What do you think??

Regarding Staffs (saint ran an in particular) we have 10 potential shields giving 20%-50% increased defense vs. 20% resurrection. Perhaps a test could show which would be generally most effective if we don't just make a calculation and throw in some arms?


Regarding Saint Ranan’s Staff, don't forget that if there is a Life Hero in the troup with resurrection (advance or more) and an other hero is using the Saint Ranan’s Staff, the 20% resurect of the staff is useless (except if the Life hero is dead at the end of combat). Also, shield works with Undead and mechanical creatures (bigger target group), so I think we don't need to do a test and just put higher priority for the 10 shield (with bonus to friendly).


Regarding multiple artifacts, all artifacts ranked Artifact can be purchased in Blacksmith, so I see no use to keep more than one of those. But major, treasure etc I wouldn't take away the extras. If AI carries 2 Helm of Command, wouldn't the player like to get hold of both?


Yes!! and if the AI carries 4 Gambler's deck, i want all 4 when I kill him.

I think we could keep 2 items of each type, except for Gambler's deck, Four leaf Clover, Horseshoe, Crest of Valor, Maranthea's Mug, Viewing Crystal, Telescope, Sextant and all ressources (Sack of gold...) misc artifact, keep 4 of each.

What I think we should do is take 3 artifact of each type, but give back only 2 (except for the misc artifact list above, take up to 5 and give back 4), and give back only 1 for artifact ranked Artifact and few other artifact like Arrow (except for flaming Arrow). For Arrow, if we keep all Arrow and for exemple the AI has 1 Flaming Arrow, 3 Arrow of Stunning and 2 Gambler's deck, the hero will be equip with Falming Arrow and 3 Stunning Arrow (because Arrow of Stunning has a higher priority over Gambler's deck) instead of 1 Flaming, 1 Stunning and 2 Gambler's deck if we give back only 1 Arrow of Stunning.

What do you think about it???
Last edited by PatFX on Jun 23 2015, 17:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Karmakeld » Jun 23 2015, 15:48

It depends on wheter we Can put variables on artifacts if there is 2 or more. Then we Can give back all but still ensure AI doesnt equip 3 Stunning Arrow.
Otherwise I think it's reasonable
I'm silent in seven languages - and I got all my familys fear.

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