Bad Luck with H4 skills allocation makes me long for H7

[cjlee]

I have been playing some old H4 maps, and a recent spate of bad luck events (or should I say lack of any events) have made me hope that this problem will be solved once and for all in Heroes 7.

I'm sure all of us have cursed the skills offered to us very often. You are in H2 and you get offered a choice between Eagle Eye and Mysticism.

You are in H3 and have gotten your might hero to level 25 without being offered wisdom once.

You are in H4 and it seems as though the computer is obsessed with offering you resurrection or summoning when you are desperate to get Grandmaster Life magic.

I have my own posts here where I bemoan the skills offered in H5 that force us not to get the ultimate skills.

H6 did not solve that problem well, instead going too far in the opposite direction and offering every race exactly the same spells and skills.

SO here am I, playing that wonderful Armageddon map by Sarvi Englehardt on Expert. I last played this map many years ago and truly do not remember it anymore. But I'm getting bogged down big time, literally. My might hero Denzel has never been offered any scouting skill except for Stealth (he started with Scouting), so we are moving very slowly.

My magic heroine Fulla is supposed to be developed as a monk according to the readme and according to my own instincts and based on how the game has progressed, but she has never been offered any Order magic (except for the initial shrine) so now she'a a Master in Life Magic with Master resurrection and Master combat, having leveled up all that way without seeing a single Order magic skill. (I did try and hold off the combat skills for as long as I could hoping that it was easier to get offered Order Magic if she was a Priest class).

As I didn't want poorly built heroes to ruin my future battles, I went back and replayed it again... and again have gotten to roughly the same hero builds. No order magic was ever offered my caster, and no scouting was ever offered my might hero.

I find myself hoping that Ubisoft can actually solve the skills allocation thing properly so that our heroes can be properly developed without making them boringly uniform.

[Salamandre]

You are in H3 and have gotten your might hero to level 25 without being offered wisdom once.

This is impossible. Before level 7 Wisdom is always offered at least once. In general, the people who know how skills are proposed, never end with crap skills.

[Maciek]

Not being offered Wisdom by level 25 in h3 is possible, but only if mapmaker banned the skill.

"Initial shrine"? You mean "initial Witch hut", no? I'm not sure if I played this map, but looking in editor reveals some Order Magic Altars and a Witch Hut with Order Magic near first hero's starting position. Visit the Witch hut with the Priest, then give her an Order Altar when you get to it and you have your Monk. It matters in what order you take the free skills.

For Denzel, wouldn't accepting Stealth have made him a Guildmaster? Guildmasters get a scouting skill offered at every level-up. Sure, you will get Stealth and Seamanship offered, but you will always get Pathfinding sooner or later.

[zeus-online]

You are in H3 and have gotten your might hero to level 25 without being offered wisdom once.

This is impossible. Before level 7 Wisdom is always offered at least once. In general, the people who know how skills are proposed, never end with crap skills.

Could you expand on that? I have played *Alot* of heroes 2 and 3, and i have no idea how to avoid the worst skills. My general tactic is to always pick a useful skill over advancing a skill.

[Salamandre]

Well, first thing is to pick the good hero.

A mighty one.

They have lower chances to get crap. Then you know how and when magic schools are offered, when wisdom comes, so make sure you upgrade other skills before. Also you are a "VS AI" player, from what I saw in your other thread. Or AI is a below mediocre player, which is not coded to rush or overwhelm you. When you have too much time on your hands, you are more inclined to make errors and not be focused on important things. Then you have 8 potential heroes scouting around, so finding huts is primordial. Of course, vs AI you will not use 8 heroes, mostly 2-3 so you explore little and get trapped with few known skills.

[zeus-online]

Well, first thing is to pick the good hero.

A mighty one.

They have lower chances to get crap. Then you know how and when magic schools are offered, when wisdom comes, so make sure you upgrade other skills before. Also you are a "VS AI" player, from what I saw in your other thread. Or AI is a below mediocre player, which is not coded to rush or overwhelm you. When you have too much time on your hands, you are more inclined to make errors and not be focused on important things. Then you have 8 potential heroes scouting around, so finding huts is primordial. Of course, vs AI you will not use 8 heroes, mostly 2-3 so you explore little and get trapped with few known skills.

How good a hero is in homm3 is mostly about the speciality. It is true that even the best ai is fairly passive and not very strong, i dont find it challenging at all anymore. Getting the eight optimal skills can still be difficult, i generally want wis, earth, air logi, int, the last three are some combination of off, arch, armorer, tactics, water, fire, sorc (speciality), necro. Depends on the town. Some of the good heroes start with sub optimal skills (neela, orrin for example).
Which complicates things.

[Salamandre]

There are mods in wog/era which greatly improve the challenge vs AI. Without modifying the game mechanics.

[cjlee]

Not being offered Wisdom by level 25 in h3 is possible, but only if mapmaker banned the skill.

"Initial shrine"? You mean "initial Witch hut", no? I'm not sure if I played this map, but looking in editor reveals some Order Magic Altars and a Witch Hut with Order Magic near first hero's starting position. Visit the Witch hut with the Priest, then give her an Order Altar when you get to it and you have your Monk. It matters in what order you take the free skills.

For Denzel, wouldn't accepting Stealth have made him a Guildmaster? Guildmasters get a scouting skill offered at every level-up. Sure, you will get Stealth and Seamanship offered, but you will always get Pathfinding sooner or later.

On second thoughts, you're probably right. I don't tend to grumble about bad luck with skills when playing the stock maps, because they're easier. On the occasions when I was stuck with a dumb brute might hero or some skill allocation that I hated, I tend to notice this more when playing custom scenarios since they're harder. So it might had been mapmaker's intent.

I think I see what you're getting at. But it's not true. After I got Fulla I definitely visited the Order shrine before I visited the combat/tactics training school. I still wound up only choosing between Mage or Battle Mage. I really tried to hold back the battle mage path until my hero's lack of combat skills made it imperative that I accept some combat skills.

For Denzel, I didn't want to take stealth which is useless on this map. Seems as though computer likes to offer you stealth when you least want it which is always when you have a hero travellinq with an army. He never got pathfinding at all. (On one play through he did get navigation which I accepted quickly.)