Nitpicking About the Plot and Timeline

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3854
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Unread postby Avonu » 10 Oct 2012, 10:31

Amehmet wrote:Unfortunately, I've never completed any of the M&M RPGs either, so I'm getting the dates from the Internet. However, I can think of one case of a year being mentioned in HoMM 3 -- Xarfax's biography says he was captured by the Kreegans in 1162 AS. ;)
The Kreegan arrived to Enroth in 1162 in Night of the Shooting Stars. Search YouTube for Might and Magic VI intro and you see that.
They landed on north-western part of continent of Enroth but some of their forced (with their king Xenofex) went to Antagarich and invaded Eeofol.
Amehmet wrote:My point is that the Wizard-Kings should have killed a whole generation to stop the story from spreading, it's not as if the knowledge of Jarg's exploits had been limited to a small circle of people.
If you kill enough people as an example, the rest will fear to tell story about how their slavers were slaves in past. ;)
Amehmet wrote:Anyway, another chapter of Heroes Chronicles that I'm not sure where to squeeze into the timeline is Clash of the Dragons. There we have Mutare the Dragon Queen of Nighon, a king of Erathia, Kreegans and Gelu together. Now, we should think that Mutare's coming to power ("Dragon's Blood" campaign) happens roughly at the same time as the main campaign of Armageddon's Blade because "Playing With Fire" (Adrienne the Fire Witch's campaign) mentions both that Mutare is rising to power in Nighon and that Erathia can't attend to the undead trouble in the west of the country as it's already waging a war in the east (obviously referring to the main plot). Therefore, CoD should take place some time afer AB.
Clash of Dragons takes place after AB. Mutare's campaign indeed takes place during rest of AB campaign (excluding Sir Christian's - but it is stated in campaign intro).
The text about king of Erathia is wrong. During these times Erathia has only regent - Morgan Kendal - and queen Catherine sailed back to Enroth.
If you look at HIV Lysander's campaign text, you will see it states that Catherine still was Erathia queen and was present on Antagarich during Reckoning - which is wrong, knowing both AB and MM8 game events.
As HC and HIV have the same author, it is clear, that text about king of Erathia in CoD is simple mistake.
Amehmet wrote:However, Queen Catherine & co. had supposedly annihilated the state of Eeofol and committed a genocide upon Kreegans by the end of Armageddon's Blade, yet they're quite numerous in CoD. True enough, there's no mention of Eeofol, Kreegans are regarded only as "Devils and Demons" under Mutare's command. Moreover, when Tarnum gets across the sea in the final scenario, supposably to the island of Nighon, he finds only Infernos. Could all those Kreegans be the "few surviving clans" of Eeofol, accepted into Nighon? Or could Nighon have been inhabited by some Kreegans all along, even before the fall of Eeofol?
Either way, perhaps even more importantly, could Erathia really have chosen a new king in such a short time (there's only a few years between the end of AB and the Reckoning)?
No, The Kreegan threat was eliminated once and for all. Maybe there was some few survivors but as a whole nation/race the Kreegan was no more on Enroth (planet). In MM8 both queen Catherine and Escaton (Ancients' Guardian sent to eliminate the Kreegan) stay that there are no more Kreegans on this planet. Queen Catherine could be wrong but not Escaton.
Erathia never has new king or queen. Morgal Kendal never has time to choose new one. From some rumours which I heard long ago (and which could or couldn't be true) it was Gelu who supposed to be elected as new king... but we all know how he ended.
Amehmet wrote:And there are several years at most between the beginning of SoD and the beginning of RoE. Could Nighon really have so much success in invading Erathia like it did in RoE such a short time after failing at it?
SoD starts 10 years before RoE and ends near beginning of it. The Kreegan arrived 3 years before RoE and attacked Erathia immediately but was soon stopped by Nighon Overlords and were quiet by next 3 years until beginning of RoE.
Amehmet wrote:Be that as it may, I'm interested in what Nighon is like as well. It obviously has some land on mainland Antagarich too. I originally thought they were represented by the underground Dungeon because RoE takes place in Erathia and its immediate surroundings and it's through underground tunnels that they appear in the middle of Erathia. However, Dragon Blood suggests that most, if not all, inhabitants of Nighon live underground. The little parts that we see of its surface in HoMM are rough and mostly volcanic -- maybe inhabited by Kreegans (though I don't think that's the case)?
They have net of underground tunnels below all Antagarich - as stated in Sword of Frost, they can reach Vori (opposide site of continent). As for they living place - in MM7 we can visit their city on the ground. They living land is place of volcanoes and deserts, so no wonder they prefer live underground. But still they have some cities above caves... and from HIV Tawni's campaign we know, they also have some harbours and haven for pirates (probably Regnan pirates).

Amehmet
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 31
Joined: 23 Sep 2012

Unread postby Amehmet » 15 Oct 2012, 16:49

Avonu wrote:The Kreegan arrived to Enroth in 1162 in Night of the Shooting Stars. Search YouTube for Might and Magic VI intro and you see that.
They landed on north-western part of continent of Enroth but some of their forced (with their king Xenofex) went to Antagarich and invaded Eeofol.
And I'd guess the player's party in M&M VI eventually invades the Kreegan Hive and kills their Queen -- that's the story HoMM III scenario The Mandate of Heaven is based on. That's why Kreegans were eradicated from the world of Enroth following the fall of Kreelah, as you said.
No, The Kreegan threat was eliminated once and for all. Maybe there was some few survivors but as a whole nation/race the Kreegan was no more on Enroth (planet). In MM8 both queen Catherine and Escaton (Ancients' Guardian sent to eliminate the Kreegan) stay that there are no more Kreegans on this planet. Queen Catherine could be wrong but not Escaton.
So, in other words, that's another plot discontinuity?
Erathia never has new king or queen. Morgal Kendal never has time to choose new one. From some rumours which I heard long ago (and which could or couldn't be true) it was Gelu who supposed to be elected as new king... but we all know how he ended.
Do you mean rumours from before the authors decided to destroy Enroth or in-game rumours? Gelu does have a dream of being chosen as the King of Erathia and bringing peace to Antagarich in the final scenario of Armageddon's Blade.

User avatar
Korbac
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 84
Joined: 02 Sep 2011

Unread postby Korbac » 15 Oct 2012, 23:47

Avonu wrote: The Kreegan arrived to Enroth in 1162 in Night of the Shooting Stars. Search YouTube for Might and Magic VI intro and you see that.
They landed on north-western part of continent of Enroth but some of their forced (with their king Xenofex) went to Antagarich and invaded Eeofol.
Actually it may be that they arrived at several places at once. I remember in the Armageddon's Blade campaign it was mentioned that the Kreegan arrived at the place where the hobbits used to live in Antagarich. It was a message you get in one of the scenarios.
Avonu wrote: No, The Kreegan threat was eliminated once and for all. Maybe there was some few survivors but as a whole nation/race the Kreegan was no more on Enroth (planet). In MM8 both queen Catherine and Escaton (Ancients' Guardian sent to eliminate the Kreegan) stay that there are no more Kreegans on this planet. Queen Catherine could be wrong but not Escaton.
Then how is it possible to explain the presence of Kreegans in Heroes 4 ? Maybe Escaton was wrong as well ?

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3854
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Unread postby Avonu » 28 Oct 2012, 12:55

Amehmet wrote:
No, The Kreegan threat was eliminated once and for all. Maybe there was some few survivors but as a whole nation/race the Kreegan was no more on Enroth (planet). In MM8 both queen Catherine and Escaton (Ancients' Guardian sent to eliminate the Kreegan) stay that there are no more Kreegans on this planet. Queen Catherine could be wrong but not Escaton.
So, in other words, that's another plot discontinuity?
Not really. It was stated by Gauldoth and he simply maybe couldn't know the true at those times. He spent much of his life in vampire cellar and later in library (IIRC). Anyway, he bring Kreegans to Axeoth from another dimension, not from Enroth so this doesn't really matter.
But yes, it is incosiestency between AB/MM8 story and HoMMIV story - author of later simply didn't know what has happened in previous games or ignored it from various reasons.
Amehmet wrote:Do you mean rumours from before the authors decided to destroy Enroth or in-game rumours? Gelu does have a dream of being chosen as the King of Erathia and bringing peace to Antagarich in the final scenario of Armageddon's Blade.
As far as I know authors of AB already decided to abandon Enroth in future and Reckoning was planned all along but not it the way what we get it in HoMMIV intro.
No, these weren't rumours from games but from forums/game magazines and I really don't know how much if any they were true.
Korbac wrote:
Avonu wrote: No, The Kreegan threat was eliminated once and for all. Maybe there was some few survivors but as a whole nation/race the Kreegan was no more on Enroth (planet). In MM8 both queen Catherine and Escaton (Ancients' Guardian sent to eliminate the Kreegan) stay that there are no more Kreegans on this planet. Queen Catherine could be wrong but not Escaton.
Then how is it possible to explain the presence of Kreegans in Heroes 4 ? Maybe Escaton was wrong as well ?
Gauldoth bring them on Axeoth from their plane/realm/planet. He didn't go to Enroth but to Fiery Realm.
Also the Kreegan were on Axeoth long before HoMMIV but they were defeated by Ancients long time ago.
MM9 wrote:ON VISITORS FROM SPACE
HAVE READ FROM MANY CREDIBLE SOURCES THAT WE HAVE BEEN VISITED IN THE PAST BY MONSTERS FROM THE STARS WHO ARRIVED IN A FLYING BOAT MADE OF METAL. IN MANY OF THE CASES THEY HANDED STRANGE DEVICES TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD EVENTUALLY LEAD ARMIES AND BECOME RULERS OF NATIONS. I WOULDN'T PRESUME TO IMPLY THAT STRANGE CREATURES HAVE EVEN VISITED ANYONE IN THE GRAND HISTORY OF THE URSANIAN EMPIRE, BUT I'VE HEARD THAT RULERS OF OTHER NATIONS HAVE COME TO POWER IN SUCH A WAY.
ONE CREDIBLE OBSERVER EXPLAINED THAT HE SAW THE STRANGE CREATURES ARRIVE AT A PLACE HE SAID WAS SEVERAL HUNDRED LEAGUES SOUTH OF VERNOFFIN'S SUPPOSED SOVEREIGN TOWER. WHILE THEY WERE THERE, THEY CONSTRUCTED AND ENORMOUS BUILDING WITH A GIANT STICK THAT POINTED TO THE SKY. HE OVERHEARD THEM, TELL THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF THAT PROVINCE, THAT WHEN THE TIME COME TO LOOK TO THE SKY, HE WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
WHETHER ANY OF THESE CLAIMS ARE TRUE HAS NOT BEEN INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED. I HOWEVER AM ONE WHO TAKES THEIR CLAIMS TO HEART. WHILE AT A HISTORICAL SITE IN THE BILDONIAN PROVINCE, I SAW CAVE PAINTINGS OF MEN FIGHTING DEMONS IN THE SKY.
WHY THEY WERE, OR WHY THEY WERE FIGHTING HAS BEEN LOST TO TIME, BUT I DOUBT THE PRIMITIVES WHO CREATED THOSE PAINTINGS COULD HARDLY BE SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH TO HAVE COME UP WITH THOSE IDEAS ON THEIR OWN.


Return to “Heroes I-IV”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests