Your favorite magic school(s) H4

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Which magic school(s) do you prefer the most?

Life magic only
6
10%
Death magic only
4
7%
Order magic only
11
19%
Chaos magic only
5
8%
Nature magic only
7
12%
Mix of 2 (please specify)
16
27%
Mix of 3 --"--
3
5%
Mix of 4 --"--
2
3%
Mix of all --"--
5
8%
 
Total votes: 59

BoardGuest808888
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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Feb 6 2013, 9:58

U should get Chaos and Death to becme a badass lich.

There be nothing like beating the game with lich :-D

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Osmin
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Postby Osmin » Aug 15 2014, 22:51

I have always been quite fond of Order magic. It excels in curses and utility spells centered around keeping the battlefield under control, such as Mass Slow and Teleport, but is somewhat less impressive in blessings. That is why Life magic, having a wonderful selection of blessings and healing spells, complements Order magic very well. In The Price of Peace, Emilia is apparently encouraged to become a Monk from how the first map is set up, and she can easily obtain the GM title in both disciplines by the fifth map (the third map in which Emilia is playable, since maps 3 and 4 are centered around a certain genie).

The True Blade is another campaign in which some of the heroes can pull off the Order/Life combination very well, and it is certainly a very effective combination in hero-heavy armies. Divine Intervention and Hypnotize may very well be the two most potent spells in the game, and the selection at the lower levels cover everything you will need. Direct damage, you say? A hero has better things to do.
My English sucks. Please correct grammar or otherwise poor-chosen words.

johnnycage
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby johnnycage » Sep 7 2016, 10:53

I like 2 have 4-7 heroes in my army. My favorite combo would have 2 B death & nature.I find the summoning demons and nature creatures can be overpowering and has saved my bacon in many a battles

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 16 2016, 14:02

johnnycage wrote:I like 2 have 4-7 heroes in my army. My favorite combo would have 2 B death & nature.I find the summoning demons and nature creatures can be overpowering and has saved my bacon in many a battles


Have you tried online game? It makes 180 degrees change in thinking about gameplay.

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Yurian Stonebow
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby Yurian Stonebow » Dec 16 2016, 21:10

For me, and probably countless of others out there, it's an easy choice: if I was to pick just one Magic School that would be Order Magic. Slogan for American Express (credit card, anyone? I don't have one so lol, the joke's on me) states it best: "Don't leave home without it"


-Yurian
Don't worry if things are going badly today. They will be much worse tomorrow.

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BrennusWhiskey
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 17 2016, 8:31

Maybe chaos is better? :)

Watch that battle

THE KINGS
Last edited by BrennusWhiskey on Dec 17 2016, 8:31, edited 1 time in total.

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cjlee
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby cjlee » Dec 17 2016, 15:38

BrennusWhiskey wrote:
johnnycage wrote:I like 2 have 4-7 heroes in my army. My favorite combo would have 2 B death & nature.I find the summoning demons and nature creatures can be overpowering and has saved my bacon in many a battles


Have you tried online game? It makes 180 degrees change in thinking about gameplay.


I think most of the disagreements here come from players who play competitive multiplayer vs solo gamers.

A competitive multiplayer is well advised to do what CSarmi recommends, and shoot for 1 grandmaster school ASAP. If you can get that (and usually advanced combat or advanced tactics on the side), you have a big advantage going into any battle. Most of these competitive games clash in weeks 4-7 when your main hero is level 12-18, so being able to cast Hand of Death or Disintegrate or Resurrection will turn the game.

The solo gamers usually take on designed maps that take at least 3 months to complete. You can usually get at least 2 heroes to level 25, and expect to face off some really powerful boss enemy with a big army at the end. So you should pair up a might hero with a magic hero, and put 2 magic schools on the magic hero, because odds are the boss enemy is designed to negate at least 1 of your spell schools.

CSarmi's suggestion will really suck if you follow it blindly on a map like Draconic, and get 7 heroes all of whom have 1 magic skill each.

When playing campaign games and I have 3 expert magic skills on my hero (eg Bohb) against against a Grandmaster in 1 school, I can outcast the AI. But in a competitive multiplayer game between humans that isn't possible because you typically have access to only 1 castle and at most a few spells on the side. Maybe only 1/3 of all level 3 spells are good enough to face off against a Grandmaster spellcaster (eg Plague, Anti-Magic, Teleport, Lightning). If you don't get them in your mage guild you'll be crushed by the guy who can cast Hand of Death or Disintegrate or Resurrection every turn.
Last edited by cjlee on Dec 17 2016, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.

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BrennusWhiskey
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 17 2016, 20:02

Good summary.
Thats why it always make me laugh when solo players present their brilliant technique like "I summon x devils and cast at them dragon strength" or something like that. Imagine if AI could be like very average online human player - he wouldn't wait for you on his side of map doing nothing like he is doing in your solo games. He would come to your land much faster than you learned any good spell. I met many "forum masters" in online game and believe me; all they could say was "its impossible to be so fast" or "c'mon your maps are stupid or unbalanced", My answer is always the same: 1. yes its possible but you need completely change your gameplay; 2. you can choose any online map (well these really good is around 50); no xl standard maps because they are unbalanced for sure.
Last edited by BrennusWhiskey on Dec 17 2016, 21:29, edited 2 times in total.

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cjlee
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby cjlee » Dec 17 2016, 21:33

BrennusWhiskey wrote:Good summary.
Thats why it always make me laugh when solo players present their brilliant technique like "I summon x devils and cast at them dragon strength" or something like that. Imagine if AI could be like very average online human player - he wouldn't wait for you on his side of map doing nothing like he is doing in your solo games. He would come to your land much more fast than you learned any good spell. I met many "forum masters" in online game and believe me; all they could say was "its impossible to be so fast" or "c'mon your maps are stupid or unbalanced", My answer is always the same: 1. yes its possible but you need completely change your gameplay; 2. you can choose any online map (well these really good is around 50); no xl standard maps because they are unbalanced for sure.


When human players are fighting on an XL map, you could max out 2 magic schools and summon x devils and cast dragon strength on them. But even if your enemy has only 1 Grandmaster school vs your 2 schools, chances are that while you are getting double grandmasters, he has been leveling up also and will be high level enough to take down your x devils with his Hand of Death or Disintegrate. So game is balanced and it is really a question of how good your judgement is when you choose to fight or flee when you see your enemy coming.

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 17 2016, 22:06

It is possible also on some M maps I know. But as you mentioned human player can be well prepared for such magic and kill your heroes before they even move.

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Taro
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby Taro » Dec 19 2016, 20:06

The funny thing about pro multiplayer games is they are like a fight of two cutthroats in the street. If you attack faster with better striking you win in a while. Battles here are not long so I think chaos is the best in such cases. It's important to remove enemy heroes from combat before they do that to you. In single games I say death (without Equilibris), but in campaigns life magic is a must if you want the best effect (regeneration spell on powerful combat heroes feels like cheating).

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 20 2016, 7:18

Its not always true. There are battles lasting around 1 hour or more when the level of opponents is similar. You can see some on my yt channel - cutted to less than 10 min just because not to wait few minutes for every move like in game. When fighting life or order its very often than both players have sanctuary, hypnosis, steal all enchantments, resurrection, exorcism etc. Teleport is very useful as well. Then things are not so easy :)

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Taro
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby Taro » Dec 20 2016, 15:16

I didn't mean these battles are quick in real time but in turns. And yeah, teleport is really good and it's my favourite spell btw :tsup:
Last edited by Taro on Dec 20 2016, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.

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cjlee
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby cjlee » Dec 20 2016, 17:23

BrennusWhiskey wrote:Its not always true. There are battles lasting around 1 hour or more when the level of opponents is similar. You can see some on my yt channel - cutted to less than 10 min just because not to wait few minutes for every move like in game. When fighting life or order its very often than both players have sanctuary, hypnosis, steal all enchantments, resurrection, exorcism etc. Teleport is very useful as well. Then things are not so easy :)


Life v Life, the most ridiculous. Essentially it boils down to who prepared more for this fight, and came to the fight with more mana and mana potions. Even on fairly weak heroes eg Level 12 with only Expert life magic, fights take forever.

I still think Death is the strongest even in Equilibris. But it's not my play style, so I don't play it as much as I do Order.

Chaos is ideal for human players because multiplayer games are short. As your cutthroat example shows, it's quick, brutal street fighting. Lightning is a very powerful spell in PvP games when the enemy hero is expected not to have more than Expert magic resistance (and often has none). Even 10 medusas have a good chance of killing the enemy hero in one shot. In PvP games you don't have time for level 4 units, so even an Expert stealth thief (level 3s can see only if adjacent) can get away with a lot.

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 20 2016, 18:22

cjlee wrote:
Chaos is ideal for human players because multiplayer games are short. As your cutthroat example shows, it's quick, brutal street fighting. Lightning is a very powerful spell in PvP games when the enemy hero is expected not to have more than Expert magic resistance (and often has none). Even 10 medusas have a good chance of killing the enemy hero in one shot. In PvP games you don't have time for level 4 units, so even an Expert stealth thief (level 3s can see only if adjacent) can get away with a lot.


Well are you sure? :) Are you both the real online players? I think no; because some of your theses, to say the least, are quite strange. First of all, medusas are too slow on map to take them into real fight. Secondly its exactly 4 level units are deciding about the results of the games not just spells or levels of heroes. Without good army heroes are just completely unprotected. Thirdly, stealth in 99% is useless because scouting+pathfinding is just must online so you won't sneak anywhere.
I suggest you to watch some real online battles on my channel (see below) or play some before picking up the voice as an expert in these matters :)

H4 online is not like brutal street fight! I would say that in some aspects its like chess (Iam quite decent chess player also)- thinking and skills are crucial and one blunder can lose all game.

THE KINGS
Last edited by BrennusWhiskey on Dec 20 2016, 20:09, edited 2 times in total.

Steven Aus
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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby Steven Aus » Dec 21 2016, 3:21

Can a non-Chaos player beat a good Chaos player?

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 21 2016, 7:44

Steven Aus wrote:Can a non-Chaos player beat a good Chaos player?


Sure, and there is plenty of combinations in final battles with the easiest way - casting sanctuary at the beginning of fight. In general its nice to just play random races then you have very different games even on the same map.

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Re: Your favorite magic school(s) H4

Postby BrennusWhiskey » Dec 23 2016, 16:50

World top players play the final of The Kings Tournament 2016. Life this time is better than Chaos:

THE KINGS 2016 FINAL


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