MAP TESTERS NEEDED for my latest solo map

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Lode
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Postby Lode » Oct 17 2011, 10:05

Okey, i'll know. Next question - do i really need to fight with mature drake? Because i can just walk by him, take red tent, and just move along. And do i need to save every troop? Or i can have looses?
EDIT:
In Armitage town it shows that magic tower lvl 4 is built, but there is no spells in here.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/unledufq.jpg/

Like this. Does it matter? Maybe there should be important spells?
Second EDIT:
Yeah i checked there should be clone and town portal, but there isn't.. :/

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 12:27

Lode i have fixed the issue with walking past mutare you cant in the fixed version but you can in this test version.
Also some spells you get later clone and town portal you get after beating robin hood and some of the first castles will later get buildings. It adds to the difficulty of the map by not giving them out early. you will get tome of earth after defeating robin hood.

All other spells you get via progression, losses you will take early on and through the map as your opponent will have much higher strength but how many losses will depend on your strategy.

The gold gets better lata on too so allowing you to buy most of the troops.

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Postby Banedon » Oct 17 2011, 15:17

No offense meant but I found the map excruciatingly boring after a while. After thumping the few thousand Naga Queens, I still had to kill a few thousand Dendroids ... and then shortly after killing the few thousand Dendroids, there were another few thousand Dendroids, and then after killing most of them they get a morale boost and kill my creatures, which is when I reload.

Not fun, especially combined with earlier bouts vs. the Champions (press Defend ten times in a row to win), vs. Mr Gorgon (split Wraith stacks, press Defend forty times in a row till he runs out of mana, listening to the annoying Wraith-draining-mana sound all the while), vs. Mr Ballistic (press Defend however many times is necessary until turrets kill him), vs. Mutare Drake (repeat same actions 1,000 times till all the Azures are dead), vs. the thousands of Naga Queens (cast Slow, cast Berserk, press Defend until they are all dead), etc.

I appreciate how difficult it is to make an interesting map, but ... I want to play Heroes of Might And Magic. I want battles to be fast yet interesting. I don't want to repeat the same moves again and again and again. And again and again and again. I'd rather play complex multivariable battles between two 5-week armies in a MP game than watch Dendroids retaliate against and bind each other ... twice over.

Again, no offense meant, this map this big and complicated could not have been easy to make. It's just that I find it tedious and boring. As it is, I may finish it eventually, but for the moment it's quite low on my priority list.

Thanks for making :)
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Lode
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Postby Lode » Oct 17 2011, 15:55

How did you killed mutare drake? I played without beating him just took tent and walked further, after that its kinda easy with berserk and stuff, but now i reloaded map to take mature, but i don't know how. I know that i somehow should use forcefield to protect azure and sharpshooters, but i just don't where to fight(to use map advantages) or how to put them. They always attack azure dragons first, and if azures are protected, then they attack sharpshooters. And if i'm in town he doesn't at all. Hm.. :/

maygwan wrote:Lode i have fixed the issue with walking past mutare you cant in the fixed version but you can in this test version.
Also some spells you get later clone and town portal you get after beating robin hood and some of the first castles will later get buildings. It adds to the difficulty of the map by not giving them out early. you will get tome of earth after defeating robin hood.

All other spells you get via progression, losses you will take early on and through the map as your opponent will have much higher strength but how many losses will depend on your strategy.

The gold gets better lata on too so allowing you to buy most of the troops.



Oh, okey, i just wanted to know, that there wouldn't be situations like if i'm fighting and loose some monsters, then after couple months i'll find a place where they need that amount of troops that i would have if i played without loosing them.

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Banedon
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Postby Banedon » Oct 17 2011, 16:41

So Force Field generates a force field at the square you click it on, the square diagonally above it to the right, and the square directly about that to the left.

You need to put your Sharpshooters on the top slot, and split your Archangels. When the battle starts, because you have the Cape of Velocity, your Archangels play before his Azure Dragons play. Throw down Force Field in front of your Sharpshooters. You need to leave enough room for the Azure Dragon to position directly below the Sharpshooters. Then move your Azure Dragons into that position. Mutare will kill your two Archangels; too bad. Then you just alternate between Meteor Shower and refreshing Force Field to kill him.

You need the Archangels because without them, you can't start with your Sharpshooters in the corner. You could kill Mutare by splitting the Sharpshooter stack, but then you can't progress in the map, so ...
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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 17:18

Sorry to hear the map bored you banedon did you move past the initial start and try and take some of the castles and ramparts the map gets interesting.
I guess its preference though i understand about the dendroids and so on and i tried to keep these stacks to a minimum on the map. Its difficult to fill an xl map with underground and a lot of the loose stacks can be used to build up secondary heroes ect. I also wanted to show the odd tricks like beserking dendroids to stick them all then beat them with archers.

It may get tedious at times but its all there to fill up a xl map, if you know all the tricks then i guess it might get boring but even i found the map a challenge, some battles i had to reload 5-10 times before i got it right.

Either way thanx for doing the testing.
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Postby maygwan » Oct 19 2011, 1:14

Any more problems with the map ect ive been tinkering with it and aslong as there are no more probs i will release it in a week or 2.

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Postby Lode » Oct 20 2011, 18:06

I can't beat mutare, lol. His high morale is just killing. I'm doing how Banedon told, but every time his azures kills both my archangels, because of high morale he gets another turn.. And it's happening every time. I already played 8 times, and every time he gets another turn. Eh.. :/

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Postby maygwan » Oct 21 2011, 7:53

Lode wrote:I can't beat mutare, lol. His high morale is just killing. I'm doing how Banedon told, but every time his azures kills both my archangels, because of high morale he gets another turn.. And it's happening every time. I already played 8 times, and every time he gets another turn. Eh.. :/


Didnt you skip him first time if so just build up your luck n morale then attack him or kill the red player and he dies after 7 days.

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Postby Lode » Oct 21 2011, 8:14

Yeah i skipped him first time, but i wanted to beat him, so i replayed map again. I guess I'll just play version where i skipped him. :)

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Postby Banedon » Oct 24 2011, 16:34

Played a bit more of the map. I found Merlin very easily beaten. The castle was actually attackable directly from the border gate, and I caught Merlin outside the castle. Friar Tuck was a lot harder; he was stuck in the castle after all. Tough fight, but I won. Haven't fought Robin Hood yet. I'll probably win easily, but I'll lose a lot of creatures.

I like how in this map you can feasibly use your other creatures, at least for a while. My Champion stack was clearly the big hitter in my army, while my Azure Dragons were just hanging out there for the ride (and the Fear). Nonetheless at the rate at which creatures grow, it's only a matter of time before Archangels take over. I would've liked the Champion stack to remain the big hitter, it would have been a different feel. But this way is OK too.

Lack of gold is OK, you just have to pick which units to use. I hired several hundred Crusaders on the idea that I had enough gold to pick up another stack of creatures, but it turned out that they were more or less completely powerless, just death fodder. The Zealots would've been a much better choice, together with the Marksmen.

I particularly like how the map does not have Resurrection (at least, so far), which makes battles difficult. If I had Resurrection I would've crushed everything without losses already.

The Arena just outside Friar Tuck's area was not accessible for me.

It would be good if there was Town Portal or something to facilitate hiring creatures. As it was, the micro required each week was rather intensive.

The map doesn't have lose condition: lose Fire Witch. Is that intended?

Your maps are really, really long :(
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Postby maygwan » Oct 25 2011, 7:18

Hi Banedon glad you are enjoying it robin hood and napoleon are pretty tough battles. You get tome of earth after robin so you will get resurection and t. portal then.
I too used champions for the heavy hitting and my archers and monks to take out large stacks. Gold is kinda scarce early on but builds up lata and angels will take over lata in the game.
The arena was fixed but you are on the test map so wont have it on your version but it doesnt make a difference to the map.
The map is pretty long too theres an underground to explore lata on but its optional and you also have to beat the 4 gods to access the final area later in the game.
The map will challenge players i hope more than anything else and hopefully make players think on there strategies.
I was gonna put a lose condition on losing the fire witch but later on you will unlock some choice characters and i thought folk may switch strategies and play as those also. The fire witch is definately strong but is primarily magic where as later you get access to
king arthur
the fire warlock
dracula
maximus from empire of the world
So i thought if players liked a might hero they may opt to switch although in the finished release i may add the loss condition.

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Postby Banedon » Oct 26 2011, 12:11

I seem to be stuck.

I've taken out all the Stronghold castles, but after that all the quest guards require me to defeat Henry Morgan or Erik the Red. The only way I can possibly get to Henry (whose army I should be able to easily crush at this point) is by defeating all four Horsemen, but the event there said that's the way to the Devil and besides the last Horseman has thousands of Archangels. Beatable, but very tedious, and I find it hard to believe I'm supposed to take him on now. I could wait until I outgrow him, but that would take months of in-game time. Meanwhile I can't even see Erik the Red.

Something wrong?
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Postby maygwan » Oct 26 2011, 16:38

You must of dloaded the first version i put up, i did change it quite quickly. Basically i noticed that henry morgan cheated and somehow water walked through mountains and got stuck in the devil area. I changed it quickly but i guess you dloaded the very first version before i had chance. Henry morgan is meant to be in the water area but as i say he somehow water walks thru mountains in the version u have. You can finish the test version but like u say u need to beat 4 gods which will be tedious.
I have sent the fully fixed updated and much harder version to ch thats been fully tested twice by me and completed 494 archangel.
I was hoping no one dloaded the version where he cheated as it was only on the forums for 20 mins before i changed it but i guess you were too fast banedon sorry bud.

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Star King
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Postby Star King » Oct 29 2011, 22:58

I think you still have the old map in the first post - starts with 10 imps.

EDIT: Oh, it's in the map section of the site, never mind.

You can just run away at the start without digging a hole... and Mutare won't reach you.

Already got stuck on Mr. Ballistic. He destroys my gate on the first turn with his Ballista, and the same thing happens no matter how many times I reload so I guess the RNG is fixed.

Just glanced at the map editor and he doesn't start with Ballistics, so I guess I was just unlucky. I restarted and now it's fine, but I would make him start with 0 experience, not 5000, to make sure that he doesn't get Ballistics and people won't be forced to restart the scenario.

Anyways, I'm already noticing some unnecessary wait. Why not give Mr Gorgon 20 spell points, since you will still need the same strategy to beat him without losing a Wraith? Why not reduce Mr Ballistic's army? Why not give Mutare Drake only a few Azure Dragons? Also noticed that a Capitol is initially built in the Rampart, but it goes away because Red takes it - not sure if this was intended.

Starting with Spirit of Oppression would be nice.

Oh, and don't get me wrong - this map is really interesting and fun so far. Just trying to provide some constructive criticism. So yeah, I haven't played much yet, but I'll go through it and nitpick as I go along B-)

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Postby maygwan » Oct 30 2011, 9:25

Feel free to post any critism as it all helps but i have playtested the frontpage twice and its completable and very challenging. I have a version 2 in mind at some pt so yeah feel free to throw your thoughts out and i will surely take them on board for further developement of the map.

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Star King
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Postby Star King » Nov 23 2011, 1:44

Sorry I haven't posted, I've had so little free time lately to play this. Don't know if you still care about this. I got stuck at Famine anyways, unless I wait a few months for my army to build up.


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