MAP TESTERS NEEDED for my latest solo map

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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maygwan
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MAP TESTERS NEEDED for my latest solo map

Postby maygwan » Oct 14 2011, 8:34

Hiya i have just completed a new very difficult single player map with story.
It kinda utilises a few tricks used in homm3 and relies a lot on using the correct spells as your foes are considerably stronger than you so you need to use them to your advantage.

It's version 1.1 as i have played it and completed it twice once without getting grail as i forgot to add it and once with grail.
here is the link and feel free to discuss it on here some of you may need help in defeating the map, some may not even get passed the start of the map.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ztvspvkgwbzbdz5

Feel free to let me know your findings i still have some story and other bits to add but they don't effect the map as it is.
It's an extra large with underground and its called Fantasy Conquest the fire witch.


PS This is legion 5 as also been sent to ch so should be out soon its a great solo or multi play map with some difficult cpu players.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 16 2011, 7:11

Let me know how you are getting on with the map if anyone is testing it.

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Postby Lode » Oct 16 2011, 18:05

Lol, i already stuck in the beginning, when trying to defeat Mr Sprite. I let him take castle, then i retake it, build castle and fortify myself in town, but with expert tactics he starts first and always gets me. I tried different tactics, but they all failed. What i am doing wrong? Or maybe this map isn't for me if i already stuck at such early phase lol..

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Postby Banedon » Oct 17 2011, 5:14

Lode wrote:Lol, i already stuck in the beginning, when trying to defeat Mr Sprite. I let him take castle, then i retake it, build castle and fortify myself in town, but with expert tactics he starts first and always gets me. I tried different tactics, but they all failed. What i am doing wrong? Or maybe this map isn't for me if i already stuck at such early phase lol..


Yup, same roadblock. The Sprites deal way too much damage to be survivable even after the turret attacks, and without Artillery you don't get to cast a spell first either, so ...
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 7:07

What you have to do is take castle then run back behind the border.
dont build a castle. Let mr sprite take back the castle and attack him while he is in the castle and see what happens.

When i say take castle i mean let mr sprite take it first then you can take it with ease. then leave it go behind border. mr sprite will retake it and camp in it. then just attack him. next build a castle and then release mr ballistic and camp in your castle.

I just wanted to utilise a few tricks in homm3. Mr ballastic as 15 war unicorns
100 goblins 15 minataurs and 15 dendroids you have to beat him with 1 sharpshooter.
Basically you have to meteor shower his ballistic to stop him destroying the wall and then let your archer towers do the rest. You may need reload few times if he breaks through wall before you destroy ballista.

Save as much magic as possible because you next battle is against mutare with 20 azure dragons. If you need more help let me know.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 8:04

maygwan wrote:then just attack him.


I don't know what you mean, probably you wanted the sprites to die on moat, but no way. You are dead on first turn, from turrets.


At 200% he will take the castle and sit in. You can save 1 imp all battles along (1 demon = 9 dead imps) thus have the final battle with 1 imp + 1 sharpshooter. At 130% Mr Sprite will not take the town so you can fight him in open field and win with magic arrow. But again, it depends on the random dice roll and you need 8-9 spell power. Seems like most ideas were took from recent chinese maps, but fights are not so close, for example the troll does not need shield to survive, digging a hole does not prohibit water walk, Mutare has only 7 radius and can't catch you so I don't see the point.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 8:18

When i tested the map and didnt dig an hole mutare came across and attacked me. That was tested so not sure how it came over when you played vallery.
Also mr sprite as expert tactics and always goes first so he will always move his sprites on to moat and die. This happens before the turret shoots your sharpshooter. You do not build the castle till mr sprite is dead.
i did test it on 200% but does he not go in the castle on 130%???
He takes castle but doesnt sit in it, you then retake it then go behind border, he retakes then sits in it. you attack and win.

Ideas are taken from all kinds of maps and from my playstyle also but i did fully test the map on 200% i never tested on 130%. i will let folk know to play on 200% in the read me.

I have changed imps to 9 and also double checked mutare and he seems to always attack if an whole isnt dug.
Last edited by maygwan on Oct 17 2011, 8:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 8:23

Yeah I see, except that Mr Sprite does not split his sprites on any difficulty, and moat can't kill 70 sprites in one stack. On 130%/160% he does not sit in the castle. Anyway, you can kill him if you save one imp in first battle and attack open field, but probably you did not want this.

Mutare can't attack you, you gave her a 7 radius, and you move before for a full turn. Anyway, digging a hole prevent only landing, never water walk.

If you want shield to be obligatory, change champion to 2 cavaliers and place cursed ground under.
Last edited by Salamandre on Oct 17 2011, 8:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Lode » Oct 17 2011, 8:29

Yeah, thats the thing, i thought too maybe they should die on the moat, but with 70 of them, they won't die. I'll try to restart game and beat him with that one imp. By the way, i played at 130%, and he took castle.
Last edited by Lode on Oct 17 2011, 8:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Banedon » Oct 17 2011, 8:30

I tried your tactic, was quite surprised actually (AI kills itself with Expert Tactics? @_@) but then the moat only killed 46 Sprites and the turret kills my Sharpshooter ...
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 8:36

ok wierd when i tested when he first took rampart he had 70 sprites but lost some in the 1 turret so when i attacked he died on moat. ive changed that so he now starts with 45 sprites. thanx for the advice there this is why it gets tested i guess as outcomes are not always the same.

While you guys are testing the only way to beat mutare unless valery as foundd another is you have to attack him first, if he attacks you you cant win.

set you team like this
slot 1 angel slot 2 free slot 3 angel slot4 free slot 5 azure slot 6 free slot 7 sharpshooter.

cast forcefield move angel close to it both angels. move azure into forcefield so sharpshooters an azure are next to each other.
then just kill azures with meteor n sharpshooters.
repeat forcefield and meteor.
you must save most of your magic from mr balistic fight.
Last edited by maygwan on Oct 17 2011, 8:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 8:40

For unknown reasons, none of his sprites die when he takes the town first. It's AI, you know...

Maybe there are different issues with SoD and Heroes complete edition, I used complete.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 8:43

Salamandre wrote:For unknown reasons, none of his sprites die when he takes the town first. It's AI, you know...


Thanx valery ive changed it as it looks like it could be random i dont know but on my tests and i tested it quite a lot he lost sprites but i just re tested and he didnt very strange. Ive fixed it by dropping sprites to 45. sorry for mix up guys.

Once you past these first few tests the map becomes playable at your own pace you will have to beat many enemies all stronger than you but with your magic you basically let them beat themselves.
Hopefully once you guys pass the first bit then your own strategies will come into play and you will defeat the enemies based on your own tactics. I know valery will find ways as i did.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 8:49

No problem, I like those tricks, I know them from sushi eaters maps, always good to try.

In a 5th test, he did not move his sprites at all, weird. That's why I often stick to WoG , SoD AI is very unpredictable and impossible to set interesting things working 100%.

tested with 45 sprites, ok, they die.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 8:58

Ya i never even thought that some might play maps at 100% or 130 ect which can always change the way the ai plays. simple things you miss i guess. Making maps like this one are hard they take a lot of testing and the ai sometimes cheats so it kinda messes things up. I have spent a lot of time testing the map before i put it up for test on here.
Ive tried to make it very challenging even for a player like yaself valery who i know always finds a way around something, buts thats the idea to think outside the box. Anyway hopefully no more hiccups and i hope you guys all get to enjoy the difficulty and challenge.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 9:06

Lower difficulties change a lot how AI will play, split troops and move around. Maybe you should include a message on first day and warn the player to choose the difficulty used for testing, to avoid problems later.

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 9:14

Salamandre wrote:Lower difficulties change a lot how AI will play, split troops and move around. Maybe you should include a message on first day and warn the player to choose the difficulty used for testing, to avoid problems later.


Already did valery thanx i added to play map at 200% dificulty into readme and editor

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Postby Lode » Oct 17 2011, 9:28

Okey, started again with 200% difficulty. I don't know, i always thought that at 130% AI plays at his best. But, you live you learn. :)

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Postby maygwan » Oct 17 2011, 9:30

Lode wrote:Okey, started again with 200% difficulty. I don't know, i always thought that at 130% AI plays at his best. But, you live you learn. :)


I only ever play maps at 200% as its the only way to score close to 500pts on maps otherwise its down in the 200-300pts stage. but yeah in future i will test my maps on 130% also as i completely forgot how weak the ai is on 130%.

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Postby Salamandre » Oct 17 2011, 9:37

AI plays very well at 130%, but there are changes on his decisions and calculations between 130% and 200%. For example, you can test it easily, place an AI hero with slightly more troops than the human close to him. At 130% he will not attack, at 200% he will. Thus the difference is capital if you need him to move. The possibility to have AI react same at 130%-200% is very hard to test, most things are hardcoded and we are unable to get a proper description of how AI thinks.


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