H4 map reviewing questions

[Qurqirish Dragon]

I have recently gone back to H4, and have just finished playing all the NWC maps (some normally, some with Equilibrus), and I am probably going to start reviewing some user-made H4 maps.

When playing H3 maps, I would only use WoG if the map was designed for it, as it would otherwise likely alter the map from its intended form. H4 is not as clear cut.

Since Equilibrus doesn't make the radical changes that WoG does, I don't know if I should play user-maps that were not made with the intention of using Equilibrus in normal H4 or not. Obviously, if I played it with Equilibrus, I would note that in the review, but is it fair to the designer to play the map with the "wrong" version? Is it fair to the player, who may not have Equilibrus installed? Obviously, the choice is ultimately up to me (and since map reviewing is voluntary, no-one can legitimately complain whatever I decide), but I am curious to the general opinion.

I'm interested in players' opinions as well as designers, which is why I placed this question here, rather than the mapmaking guild.

[GreatEmerald]

You can disable all WoGification, so the gameplay will be true to the original there as well.

As for Equilibris, I have it and I don't see much difference. I'd say play with it, it will also be a good advertisement for this good mod.

[wimfrits]

Depends on the mapmaker's efforts on balancing difficulty and hero stats. If this done to a more than average degree then playing with the 'wrong' version significantly messes up balance.

The reviewer might think a map too difficult or too easy without this being the mapmaker's fault.
A personal example, but a good part of the balance I tried to create with my campaign 'A Wind of Thorns' is completely ruined when playing it with Equilibris.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

@ Emerald: I am aware that you can turn off WoG features (I *AM* part of the WoG team, remember?B-)). I meant that I wouldn't play with WoG features - the specific executable is immaterial.

@ Wimfrits: Obviously, if the designer says it should/shouldn't be played with Equilibrus, I'll play the appropriate way (since I do want to play the maps as intended). My question is mainly for maps which do not have a preference stated. I may go by the date on the map - if it was made before Equilibrus was released, then I won't use it, because the designer couldn't have considered it. If it was made soon after, then it is likely that it wasn't considered during the design. Maps made later are then the ones I need to question.

[wimfrits]

I strongly suspect that most if not all maps that were designed to be played with Equilibris will have stated this explicitly.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

I strongly suspect that most if not all maps that were designed to be played with Equilibris will have stated this explicitly.

Yes, but that isn't the problem. Perhaps I still haven't made myself clear (it wouldn't be the first time ). Maps made early on in the life of H4 (such as "Oceania", which I just played), and many maps made by people who didn't want Equilibrus (for whatever reason) will not say "don't use Equilibrus" with this map. However, during playtesting, they may have been tweaked to compensate for the problems that Equilibrus fixes. This is my dilemma - in the absence of a preferred setup from the designer, what should I do to be fair to both the designer, and those who may use the review to decide what to play. Maps that were made with Equilibrus in mind are not the issue - if the designer says to use it, I definitely will - and someone looking for a good map to play will want to know how it plays when used as intended.

[Deadguy118]

I think it would be fine, most of the time at least. Equilibris makes enough of an impact for me to enjoy Heroes IV far more than I would usually, but isn't a WoG style total overhaul that just makes everything weird from a map perspective.

Oh, and QD, you have 666 posts.

[ByteBandit]

QD. I have made all my H4 maps using the H4 Util along with Equilibrus, but not using Equilibrus elements. I play all H4 maps with Equilibrus, mostly for the benefit of the no-cd. Which, I think, is how most people play H4 these days. But, like you say, it's up to you.

[GreatEmerald]

Oh, I misread the first post, my bad
Anyway, I still say you should play newer maps with Equilibris because, like ByteBandit says, that's how most people should play it. If they don't it would be a good advertisement. And in the end, if you are really not sure, you can play the same map two times with both settings and then just note the differences.

[Midas]

Equilibris "equals" the whole game, so it depends on u I think...

But I think u should play with Equilibris, unless they get too easy..

oh, BTW, ur post count is the Devils Number

[wimfrits]

However, during playtesting, they may have been tweaked to compensate for the problems that Equilibrus fixes. This is my dilemma - in the absence of a preferred setup from the designer, what should I do to be fair to both the designer, and those who may use the review to decide what to play.

I might be missing the point again (which wouldn't be a first time either), but it seems pretty obvious to me.

A. if the mapmaker took a genuine shot at balancing the map, he will certainly consider the version played, tested and tweaked and will have noted the use of Equilibris explicitly. If you play the map with the wrong version any comments you make about balance and difficulty will *not* do justice to what the mapmaker attempted to create.

B. if the mapmaker did not consider balance, the map most likely isn't worth a review by you anyway.

The only exception I can think of where your dilemma seems valid are MP maps with quick pvp action.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

However, during playtesting, they may have been tweaked to compensate for the problems that Equilibrus fixes. This is my dilemma - in the absence of a preferred setup from the designer, what should I do to be fair to both the designer, and those who may use the review to decide what to play.

I might be missing the point again (which wouldn't be a first time either), but it seems pretty obvious to me.

A. if the mapmaker took a genuine shot at balancing the map, he will certainly consider the version played, tested and tweaked and will have noted the use of Equilibris explicitly. If you play the map with the wrong version any comments you make about balance and difficulty will *not* do justice to what the mapmaker attempted to create.

But what if the map was made BEFORE equilibrus? I'm starting with the older maps, and going forward in time, so many of these early maps couldn't concern themselves with it.

B. if the mapmaker did not consider balance, the map most likely isn't worth a review by you anyway.

But a review is used by others to determine if it is worth playing, and so a poor map needs to be identified also. Further, the quality of a map often isn't known until after playing, and the actual review is generally a minor amount of the time used.

[wimfrits]

But what if the map was made BEFORE equilibrus? I'm starting with the older maps, and going forward in time, so many of these early maps couldn't concern themselves with it.

If the map was made before equilibris, it will not be balanced for equilibris and should definately not be played with Equi if you want to fairly judge difficulty and balance.

But a review is used by others to determine if it is worth playing, and so a poor map needs to be identified also.

Alright.