Heroes III VS Heroes IV

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Which Game Do You Like Better?

Heroes III
76
44%
Heroes IV
64
37%
I Like them The Same
34
20%
 
Total votes: 174

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Postby BenchBreaker » Apr 26 2006, 23:04

i like h4 much more, h3 is good, but the gameplay is too rigid imo, it doesn't have the unique h4 spells systems which gives each faction unique strategies and all the heroes at the end of a h3 game look the same. with equilibris a lot of the imbalance/bugs in h4 were eliminated and the battles are much more strategistic, like varying creature size, better moral system, separate values for speed and initative, LoS, simultaneous retaliation...

also i find the custom map for h4 much more interesting, it basically comes down to the flexibilty of your army, which offers so much varitey:

- you can have a multi-hero party, each specialise in one area, which gives you a baldur's gate feel
- you can have single hero without creatures, like diablo
- you can have massive armies where your hero would be very vunerable and you'll have to try hard to keep them alive
- you can have armies without heroes which give the game a totally different feel, you can play as a single megadragon, a single cyclops, a band of pikemen and crossbowmen... and with script you can change the creatures you command, the possibility is limitless

now you can have all those senarios in the same map and without power-ups the h4 heroes don't reach their full protential skill wise until lv 100!

ps: you also don't lose the game after 7 days without a town, so you don't even need a town.
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Postby bethrezen » Apr 27 2006, 11:31

h3---only for multiplayer(singleplayer it's booring)
h4---very funny in singleplayer

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Postby Big J Money » Apr 30 2006, 3:07

To all the Heroes II voters in this thread: The poll is not asking which the best HOMM game is. It is trying to get a comparison between III and IV. Stop suggesting that it should have been an option. Go make a new poll if you think this one isn't good enough.

Okay, any time I even think of HOMM V, I want to go into a rage. The fact that Nival blatantly ignored Heroes IV is such an insult to me as a fan, I don't even know what to say. It would be different had they decided to forego the serious changes IV made to the series; I can understand not agreeing with those changes. What is unacceptable is the fact that they didn't even include such obvious features as Caravans and automatic resource delivery. I literally waited for my second beta game to end and then proceeded to wipe that shallow trash from my hard drive. Is Nival really so arrogant that they believe they can play Heroes IV for 30 minutes and decide the game is not up to par? That has to be what they did, because even the most vehement Heroes IV opponents I've met have at least agreed that there were a handful of good things about the game. Nival hasn't even taken the time to figure out what they are. It leads me to believe their impression of HOMM IV is biased and flawed.

I will also point out that the AI in IV was no worse than in III. The problem was that they added new tactical features to the game and didn't teach the AI to use them properly. So yeah, that was their mistake, but it doesn't mean that the game itself was inferior. Also, people who complain about the new (and completely improved) initiative system, get a clue. It did not "throw tactics out the window". It actually became more advanced. It meant that an army focused on morale could beat an army focused on speed to the punch. I found the tactics to be so engaging in Heroes IV, in fact, that I can't enjoy Heroes III any more without making the comment, "Why am I not playing Heroes IV right now?" It also made things a little less predictable in Multiplayer, which is a good thing, because people who have the whole combat round planned out are too dangerous. ;)

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Apr 30 2006, 8:10

Big J Money wrote:I will also point out that the AI in IV was no worse than in III. The problem was that they added new tactical features to the game and didn't teach the AI to use them properly.


Please. As much as I like H4, I can only describe the adventure map AI as a catastrophe. The only measurement of quality you can have of an AI is how much of a challenge it can give you, and the Adventure map AI seldom delivers in that area.
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Postby BenchBreaker » Apr 30 2006, 13:48

lets not forget, h4 was rushed to release, the ideas in the game and innovative features themselves were good, obviously the AI would be one of the hardest components to get right, and they simply didn't have enough time, it's like an unfinished product, yet it is still good. imo it has much more potential than h5.
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Postby Metathron » Apr 30 2006, 14:43

Big J Money wrote:To all the Heroes II voters in this thread: The poll is not asking which the best HOMM game is. It is trying to get a comparison between III and IV. Stop suggesting that it should have been an option. Go make a new poll if you think this one isn't good enough.

Okay, any time I even think of HOMM V, I want to go into a rage. The fact that Nival blatantly ignored Heroes IV is such an insult to me as a fan, I don't even know what to say. It would be different had they decided to forego the serious changes IV made to the series; I can understand not agreeing with those changes. What is unacceptable is the fact that they didn't even include such obvious features as Caravans and automatic resource delivery. I literally waited for my second beta game to end and then proceeded to wipe that shallow trash from my hard drive. Is Nival really so arrogant that they believe they can play Heroes IV for 30 minutes and decide the game is not up to par? That has to be what they did, because even the most vehement Heroes IV opponents I've met have at least agreed that there were a handful of good things about the game. Nival hasn't even taken the time to figure out what they are. It leads me to believe their impression of HOMM IV is biased and flawed.

I will also point out that the AI in IV was no worse than in III. The problem was that they added new tactical features to the game and didn't teach the AI to use them properly. So yeah, that was their mistake, but it doesn't mean that the game itself was inferior. Also, people who complain about the new (and completely improved) initiative system, get a clue. It did not "throw tactics out the window". It actually became more advanced. It meant that an army focused on morale could beat an army focused on speed to the punch. I found the tactics to be so engaging in Heroes IV, in fact, that I can't enjoy Heroes III any more without making the comment, "Why am I not playing Heroes IV right now?" It also made things a little less predictable in Multiplayer, which is a good thing, because people who have the whole combat round planned out are too dangerous. ;)

=$= Big J Money =$=


Welcome to our little asylum, BJM!

I welcome your post and agree with it almost completely. I especially appreciate you voicing the fact that Nival fully ignored H4 and the "Why am I not playing Heroes IV right now?" bit of your post. Indeed, I am not only finding that to be true when playing H3, but also with the H5 demo, which after installation I have played for a grand total of two times (neither exceeding 20 minutes). Certainly, the game is not final yet, and things can still change, but my disposition is gloomy nonetheless.

Also, that is an interesting approach to the H4 AI, but we cannot overlook that the computer does play badly and is much less challenging than in previous games. That to me is pretty much the only downside to H4.

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Postby BenchBreaker » Apr 30 2006, 15:36

@ Metathron: both me and DL also feel strongly this way, maybe we should start a petition to bring back the good features of h4 in the next heroes game!

here's a good listmade by DL:
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Postby Angrilmor » May 1 2006, 21:32

Yessss B-)

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Postby TheUnknown » May 14 2006, 13:31

Both are good games but H4 is better in my oppinion, especialy multiplayer, especialy with equilibris and especialy on good maps (which was all missing on the first CD of the game). H3 has good single player but there are some MP balance problems. Don't like the retaliation after enemie attack, why archangels have best statistics in everithing + resutection(yes they cost much but there are other expensive creatures less strong). The only problem in H4 is that it has some bugs which can be fix and can make the game even much much better. Problems like AI, some artifacts bugs and maybe some more MP balance.

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Loooong comment....

Postby Babri » May 17 2006, 12:06

HIV definitely offered more in terms of ease of play. Caravans, daily creature generation and collection of resources without the running around was a huge improvement. Granted, the graphics were a big adjustment, but after playing for a while it definitely grew on me. I am really disappointed that these features will not be available in HV. I will also miss the ability to load or quit directly from the combat screen.

My absolute favourite thing though, was being able to have an army made up of just heroes, boosting their experience and watching them perform. I get extremely protective of my creatures and hate seeing them get hurt (yes, snigger all you want!), which forced me into some pretty tight spots in terms of strategy. Fighting with just heroes eliminates this and keeps my babies safe :)

I'm a bit torn between the two different options for hiring heroes though - in HIV a hero wasn't accompanied by any troops, as opposed to H3.

All in all, HIV turned out to be highly addictive. I never turned back after that. Having to run to and fro hiring creatures would drive me nuts.

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Postby Babri » May 17 2006, 12:18

...and by HIV, I do mean Heroes IV. I just read my post and nearly wet myself. ;)

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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 17 2006, 12:42

Babri wrote:...and by HIV, I do mean Heroes IV. I just read my post and nearly wet myself. ;)


Its a joke we use here regulary :devil:

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Postby DungeonMaster » May 27 2006, 5:00

ive never played IV so like i said in the other poll (lol) i vote III

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Postby Jimmpi » May 27 2006, 21:37

Hard question..My first time ever playing heroes was in heroes III...i still remember that I was stronghold that time... :D
But heroes IV is also a great game in my eyes..both games has + and -

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Postby DungeonMaster » May 28 2006, 13:35

Now that i actually went through and read most of the replies on this topic im starting to think that only having heroes III is a bad thing for me and you guys are just about to push me over the edge to buy a new version of heroes..... so if anyone can give me a couple more big details in IV that arent in III then I might get that one and then V.... but otherwise im just going straight for V :devious:

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Postby jeff » May 28 2006, 16:45

While I liked both, the story telling in the creation of an RPG campaign is much easier in H-IV. Though balancing the game is very difficult.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 28 2006, 18:39

DungeonMaster wrote:Now that i actually went through and read most of the replies on this topic im starting to think that only having heroes III is a bad thing for me and you guys are just about to push me over the edge to buy a new version of heroes..... so if anyone can give me a couple more big details in IV that arent in III then I might get that one and then V.... but otherwise im just going straight for V :devious:


The most important acomodation is that all of the resource buildings are flagable,so you wont have to collect all of your windmills every week.

There are only four creature levels,but there are 8 available creature dwellings in every city(2 for each level).You can only have 5 dwellings built(both level ones,and one of other three levels),except for preserve(nature)that has an additional dwelling with 8 extra creatures.

The creature growth is daily,meaning that if the imps grow in a rate of 28 imps/week each day you can hire 4 of them.

Dwellings stack creatures,so if you capture a black dragon dweling(growth 1 per week)and visit it in a month,you will be able to hire 4 BDs.

You dont have to visit your dwellings in order to hire creatures,since there is a caravan bulding in every town that allows you to transport creatures directly from dwelling(or other towns)to that town.

Creatures and heroes can move separately.That means that you wont be able to cary your army across the whole map in a single day,but you can i use your creatures to scout the area and pick valuable resources.But only heroes can capture buldings and towns,and only they can gain expirience.

You can have multiple heroes in an army(its advisable).

The combat is a bit weird because of the stupid camera,but it can be used to.The BF is very large.There is a line of sight,meaning that shooters can hit only the creatures they can see,so if you put your behemots in front of your centaurs,your centaurs are safe from enemy arrows.Also,some spells are affected by LoS as well.

Heroes are weak in combat on low levels,but on higher levels they can singlehandedly kill entire armies.This balance problem doesnt diminish the fun though.

Skill system is a bit different:You can choose up to 5 major skills,and for each you have 3 minor skills.Each skill has five levels(basic,advanced,expert,master and grandmaster).Some skills cannot reach a certain level if they dont have apropriate minor skill of some level,and vice versa.

There are five magic schools(life,nature,chaos,death and order)and each is asociated with a major skill,so you cannot learn any spells from a school if you dont have the apropriate skill(basic allows you to learn level one,advanced level two,etc).Each school has a very different strategy.Each town is aligned with a certain magic school(except for might that has no magic,but has magic resistance boosting building)and in each you can learn just the spells from that and its two aligned schools(life is alinged with nature and order,nature with chaos and life,chaos with nature and death,death with chaos and order and order with life and death).

Heroes dont have special abilities,but they have special classes.There are 11 starting classes(one might and one magic for each town,except for might town),and numerous advanced classes.Advanced class is gained if you have two major skills and you have spent at least two skill points in each(meaning if you have both skills in advanced,or one in advanced,and one in basic but with one basic minor skill for it,or both in basic with one basic minor skill),and it gives you a different bonus.

There are other differences,but Im not sure what Ive missed though.Hope this helpes :devil:
Last edited by DaemianLucifer on May 28 2006, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » May 28 2006, 19:29

DaemianLucifer wrote:Dwellings stack creatures,so if you capture a black dragon dweling(growth 1 per week)and visit it in a week,you will be able to hire 4 BDs.


I think you meanth month... And didn't external dwellings only have half growth?
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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 28 2006, 19:43

Gaidal Cain wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote:Dwellings stack creatures,so if you capture a black dragon dweling(growth 1 per week)and visit it in a week,you will be able to hire 4 BDs.


I think you meanth month... And didn't external dwellings only have half growth?


Edited.I never checked.But I think I was able to hire 4 BDs monthly.You could be right though.

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Postby Metathron » May 28 2006, 20:57

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the external dwellings have only half the growth, so in four weeks you'd only get two blackies instead of the normal (town) four.

As for the HoMM IV battlefield, I happen to love it. The line of sight and other additions/changes add great diversity and tactical possibilities. HoMM IV combat is not as straightforward as that of the previous (and following!) games. In a nutshell, it is great fun!

The same can be said of the creature choices. Some people complain about it, saying how annoying it is when you pick a certain creature and then capture an enemy town (of the same allegiance) and find that they made a different choice. This to me is hardly a nuisance, and often the two creatures will complement each other wonderfully. Anyhow, being able to choose between creatures will lend your game greater diversity and in turn make your playing more enjoyable.

However, it should be said that HoMM IV had some problems, notably the memory leaks and the faction imbalance - some creature choices were absolute no-brainers (everyone chose the cyclops over the ogre magi, for por ejemplo). Fortunately, the first got fixed by a patch and the second by our friendly Equilbris team who produced a 'mod' by that same name which can be easily installed.

These inconveniences out of the way, HoMM IV is an amazing game, one of the very best out there!
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