Can't Figure Them Out

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CloudRiderX
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Can't Figure Them Out

Unread postby CloudRiderX » 17 Jun 2008, 02:15

One day when I was sitting in class, discussing with a friend of mine (a guy) the shattered remains of a potential relationship I had pursued, I finished the conversation with something like "Man, I don't understand women." Nothing against females of course, but most guys will get where I'm coming from.

Oddly enough, a girl who I knew fairly well turns around and replies, "You think we're hard to understand? I don't understand guys!"

Needless to say, I was utterly perplexed. I had always assumed girls had us figured out to a fault and that guys were lost in the dark. Though the conversation didn't continue, I put some thought into the subject. Then I was reminded of it when I was browsing these forums.

By posting your own scenarios of incidences involving misunderstanding, maybe those whom you do not understand can shed some light on this topic. Whether funny or serious, a lot can be learned from experiences like these.

As a further note, please keep it clean and respectful. The last thing we need is another topic on lockdown. :)
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 17 Jun 2008, 09:02

What's so hard about understanding guys? We just want sex. Women too. That's the whole reason of the male-female interaction.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 17 Jun 2008, 09:06

But biologically for different reasons, apart of the fun aspect. You could say men want to spread their genes as far and completely as possible while women want to have the best genes around - which makes all the difference, obviously.
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 17 Jun 2008, 09:46

That's right. However, it's not like men want to have sex with every female they met, this applies only to women they find attractive enough. Women wanting the best genes, does not restrict them to mate with only one biologically well qualified male.

So, as long the basic sexual attraction is there, both men and women want to have sex with the other. However, that's only one (but significant) part of the equation. Our instincts don't control us by giving detailed explanations: "mate with an unit of opposing gender, so that you can ensure the survival and evolution of your species", but by making sex very enjoyable. Therefore the fun it gives is enough to motivate people.

This where society comes into equation, with its rules, taboos, constructed morals that generally restrict sexual activity for various more or less practical reasons(christianity). The conflict between the two opposing motivators: pro-sex instincts and the (mostly religiously motivated) rules of society, is what makes all the confusion.

There is a clear double-standard when it comes to judging females vs. males. This is related to the fact, that women are those who give birth, and secondly, they are physically weaker. So, to summarize it:

Even if women and men have an inherent and high motivation to engage in sexual activities, their purely biological differences and their interaction with the cultural nexus of society, puts them in a different (and confusing) situations: Like in a game where everybody has the same objectives, but the rules are different for everybody. It's obvious, that they will have a different behavior.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 17 Jun 2008, 12:00

I think you have it slightly wrong.

The decisive factor is the way the "local" human society is treating their children. If children are the children of the MOTHER AND society accepts ALL children as theirs there are no "partnerships": men and women have sex with everyone they like, and in fact there is no or not much difference in the behaviour of men and women.
This is to be seen in those - still existing - small cultures where it is so.

If, however, the society is NOT caring for the children and therefore children are identified by their FATHER, simply to ensure their survival, things are different, and the whole thing becomes as strict as it was and in part still is albeit it would be possible to act differently now.
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 17 Jun 2008, 12:41

I'm not getting your main point here.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby CloudRiderX » 17 Jun 2008, 12:58

No matter how you try and rationalize it out, there are exceptions everywhere. That's one of the most irritating part about this topic. I've asked women I know for advice on relationships and things like that, and oftentimes they are just as clueless as I am, it seems. It's weird - I sort of expected them to have all the answers, you know?

In my case, its not so much overall goals I'm concerned with, just the thought patterns. In my experiences, I can't help but wonder why some females do things the way they do. They many times make the situation more complicated than it needs to be, which doesn't make sense to me at all.
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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 17 Jun 2008, 13:00

The actual sexual behaviour depends on the way society is treating the children.
Anthropology knows some remote societies in the South Sea and other paradise areas where children "belong" to the society. They are associated with their mother, but not with their father and all children are therefore treated equally by the males - everyone might be theirs.
They don't know partnerships like us, but switching partners freely and completely. Males and females behave nearly identical.

This looks different when the society gets male dominated and there is personal wealth and so on. Here it is important that the male is accepting a child as his which means the children are strongly tied to a male as well. For women this is a switch in security: in model a the whole society offers security for the children, so women are free; in model b only a known father offers security, so instead of having sex mit everyone a woman wants to she has to switch having sex with only that man who is prepared to take the responsibility for the children.
For the men the situation changes as well, but in a different way. Men now have to find women attractive enough and willing and have to take care not to "get trapped" (!).

Today, things COULD look different, but tradition is hard to overcome in behaviour patterns.
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 17 Jun 2008, 14:03

That makes sense.
In the model A, the small size and remoteness of the communities make it possible for people to care about the children much more. Obviously, that's not the same in the case of larger communities.

@ Cloudriderx

Never ask women for advices like that. Even if they are willing to help, most likely they will just give bad ones. Why? Because, most of them are unsure about what they really want. The instinct vs. society inner conflict is hard to handle.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby CloudRiderX » 17 Jun 2008, 15:02

Oh, trust me, I've gotten my fair share of incorrect advice and paid for it in the end. :D

But yeah, I get where you're coming from. Society puts a lot of pressure on people.
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Unread postby Kristo » 17 Jun 2008, 15:35

In my experience, if she likes you, she'll make it easy on you. Your comment about a failed attempt at pursuing a relationship implies that you had to work for it. I think you should make that a red flag for the future. It'll likely save you some headaches.

That said, you may just be putting too much pressure on yourself. As the song says, "Girls just wanna have fun."
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Unread postby Pol » 17 Jun 2008, 18:05

Kristo wrote:In my experience, if she likes you, she'll make it easy on you.
That coincide with my experience, although some girls love to add a bit of tricky gaming. :D
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 17 Jun 2008, 21:14

Yeah, it's always a GAME. You have to know the rules to win.

There's one very important rule (well, there are many, but this one is essential), so take the notes:
If a girl feels attracted to you, which is decided in the very first seconds to minutes (first impression), the ONLY way you can screw it, is being a wussy. Yeah, you can even act like a jerk, and still keep all your chances! So, there is no need to worry about whether she likes you or not, and trying to be close to her, hoping that someday she will realize you're such a great guy! Assume that she like you, and make the move without hesitating. You won't get a positive response every time, but with a considerable amount of tries, you can get a LOT of women. That's how it works.
If are not attractive enough, work on that.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby winterfate » 18 Jun 2008, 05:56

Le overly belated linkie:
Because you all knew I had to go there!

@CloudRiderX: Basically, do the opposite of what I do (or the exact things everyone else recommends) and you should be fine. ;)

@Vel: I agree 100% with what you've said. :)
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Unread postby CloudRiderX » 19 Jun 2008, 14:45

Your comment about a failed attempt at pursuing a relationship implies that you had to work for it.
Ironically enough, that's wasn't the case. The only reason I pursued the relationship was because I thought I saw a few 'hints' and she seemed really into me for a time. Otherwise, I didn't really have my eye on her (she had a boyfriend at one point). Confusing part was, when I asked her out, she said yes, but then stopped talking to me. I guess she didn't mean yes after all.

That's when I said "I don't understand women,". The hard work that I implied was trying to patch up our friendship afterward. I really enjoyed talking with her and she was a cool person, and when she stopped talking to me and avoided me completely, I got depressed and frustrated. I tried talking to her about it, hoping we could just go on being friends, and she acted like there was nothing wrong. Then news reached me of her spreading rumors about how I was stalking her and stuff...that was when I decided she wasn't worth being my friend anymore. It's a shame.

Maybe in time everything will turn out right.
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Unread postby Veldrynus » 19 Jun 2008, 18:34

In my experience, when you end up in the "(Just) Friendship Zone" of a woman, it's not uncommon that she will send you signals of more "erotic nature", even if she isn't interested in you that way. It's a sort of a game they like to play. Women are generally insecure about their attractiveness, even the most beautiful ones. So, they need to test it in a controlled environment. :D Guys interested in more than just friendship, are in danger of misinterpreting the signs. The result of a move will most likely kill the friendship.
However, there is a chance that the girls wants more too. In that case all the signals need to be examined more carefully.
The wisest thing to do is to act fast when you meet a woman you're interested in. That will remove the uncertainties in seconds.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Unread postby Pol » 19 Jun 2008, 18:39

...there is a chance that the girls wants more too. In that case all the signals need to be examined more carefully.
...closely, very closely.
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Unread postby CloudRiderX » 20 Jun 2008, 15:07

Ah, yes, I'm very familiar with the legendary "friend zone". Get stuck in that, and you're finished.
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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 24 Jun 2008, 23:19

Well neither is the friend zone such a bad thing. I have female friends who don't like me that way, but they all really hope I'll find the right girl. And after all they have female friends too...

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Unread postby Veldrynus » 26 Jun 2008, 14:43

The friend zone is great, when you need a friend.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.


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