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Caradoc
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New PC

Unread postby Caradoc » 27 Dec 2006, 16:41

It's time for me to get a new PC, so I've been boning up on recent developments in hardware.

I'm reading lots about nVidia's 8800GTX, which will run Direct X 10.0. As I understand it, you get a big boost in performance since the graphic card can handle the entire graphics pipeline and does not need to go back to the CPU for physics, etc. Sounds good, but it adds $600 to the cost. Even the GTS model is another $450. I wonder whether it's worth it and whether there are going to be games I want that require it.

It also appears that Intel has moved ahead of AMD with its dual core technology. I would think a pair of 2GHz processors would do the job for me. If I don't get the 8800 card, I can afford to bump memory up from 1GB to 2GB. I wonder whether the premium Corsair memory is worth it.

I'm also thinking of adding a TV tuner card and using the machine as a DVR. I'd like to be able to make DVDs of shows I like. I also have a lot VHS tapes I'd like to convert. Can anyone recommend a tuner card?

Finally, as much as I dislike Windows XP, I fear Vista even more. The PC vendors are promoting a Media Center version of XP with a coupon for upgrading to Vista, but I'm trying to talk myself out of this. I'm really not interested in using my TV screen for anything but TV, but as I said I'd like DVR functionality. Wouldn't that come with the video card anyway? Vista involves a particularly loathsome DRM, making me think I should avoid it entirely.

Any information or advice you may be able to give me would be greatly appreciated!
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Re: New PC

Unread postby pepak » 27 Dec 2006, 18:16

Caradoc wrote:I wonder whether it's worth it and whether there are going to be games I want that require it.
That depends on the games you want to play on it. For example, I only play Heroes 4, Jagged Alliance 2, Master of Orion 2 and Spider Solitaire these days, so just about any graphics card is OK with me. If you plan to play this year's or even next year's games, you will have different requirements.
I can afford to bump memory up from 1GB to 2GB. I wonder whether the premium Corsair memory is worth it.
I can defintelly recommend buying more RAM. This past year I have been using 2.5 GB RAM and it was awesome! Accidentally, I have Corsair RAM, but I don't think it's really so important - just about anything that works should be fine.
I'm really not interested in using my TV screen for anything but TV, but as I said I'd like DVR functionality. Wouldn't that come with the video card anyway?
Yes, it would. You don't need Media Center for that.
Vista involves a particularly loathsome DRM, making me think I should avoid it entirely.
Same here.

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 27 Dec 2006, 22:03

2Caradoc:

If you're targeting DX10 (this means targeting Vista as well) I would recomend to wait with upgrade until prices will go down a bit for 8800GTX.
Also with Vista you need at least 2gb to play games. I dont know what moron at MS thinks that memory is cheap, but vista itself (with aero) takes 500 mb. (versus 80-100 in XP)

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Unread postby asandir » 28 Dec 2006, 00:14

for the RAM it's not the brand that makes it go, but the timings on it .... depending on what sort of RAM you go for (DDR400, DDR2-800 whatever) will determine what timings you can get, so be sure to pick some with lower timings, this can make a bit of a difference

for the video card I recommend staying a generation behind current technology, it will still play everything for some time to come (you may need to complensate on resolution for some of the newest and shiniest games though) check Tom's Hardware for their price bracket winners, something like the ATI X1950XT for about $270 should more then meet your needs, it's a great card, but also the 8800 series needs the fastest PC setup to get the most out of your card, so unless you have serious money I would wait on this one ....

for the CPU, go for the Core 2 Duo .... the E6400 is a cheap one ($224 on NewEgg), and has great OC'ing potential, otherwise if you want a little more juice as standard hit up the E6700 for about $500 or so

if I could suggest I would go for something like this:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - 'Allendale' Dual Core Processor - 2.13GHz, 64-Bit, 1066FSB, 2MB Cache, VT, LGA775 - BX80557E6400

POWERCOLOR ATI Radeon X1950XT 256MB DDR3 Dual DVI/ VIVO/ HDTV PCIE

Corsair 4-4-4 PC2-6400 Twin2X XMS 2GB DDR2 Kit (2x1GB) DDR2-800, TWIN2X2048-6400C4

Asus P5B Deluxe Motherboard - Socket LGA775, Intel P965 Chipset, DDR2, 2xPCI-Express x16, 7xSATA, 1xeSATA, RAID, 2xGbLAN, 8-ch Audio

All this for about $1250 or so (and that is Aus$ converted to US$ which actually means it will be cheaper then this is the US, cause the parts are always cheaper there)

of course you need a few more bits, but this is the core
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Unread postby Kalah » 28 Dec 2006, 00:54

What do you plan to use your computer for, Caradoc?
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Unread postby Angelspit » 28 Dec 2006, 02:09

Check out the thread about the PC games of 2007 (as well as Caradoc's face in his post) and you'll find out what he plans to do with his new rig. After a look at that thread, my plans to buy an Xbox sometimes in the future seem like a very bad idea now.

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Unread postby asandir » 28 Dec 2006, 02:17

I hear ya AS, does the same for my PS3 plan .... :D
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Caradoc
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Unread postby Caradoc » 28 Dec 2006, 03:15

Kalah wrote:What do you plan to use your computer for, Caradoc?
I want to use it at least half time for games. I'd like to play 'too big' H5 maps, NWN2, and all those good looking RPGs listed over in the Heretic section. I may try an MMORPG and would want to be able to keep up. Otherwise 'real time' does not matter much. The main thing is that this machine has to last at least two years before it is replaced or significantly upgraded.

I also spend a lot of time surfing and doing office work, but that's not a problem.

What I'd also like to do is start converting my collection of VHS tapes and LP records to DVDs. I have a lot of rare and rare-ish vinyl that I can't find on the internet, plus some 45s from the band of my misspent youth. There's also a box of videotapes, including a pretty complete set of MST3Ks. I imagine I can find a dedicated device that does all this, but I could also use the DVR capability. I have a digital TV, so I'm not particularly interested in watching on my PC.
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Unread postby Angelspit » 28 Dec 2006, 03:18

Caradoc wrote:The main thing is that this machine has to last at least two years before it is replaced or significantly upgraded.
My good old Dimension 8200 will turn five next Summer, and only recently did it start to show its age (thank you, Dark Messiah). With some good basis and a few upgrades, a computer can last for quite a while.

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Unread postby Kalah » 28 Dec 2006, 11:16

Buy a good video card then, and a powerful CPU. RAM is easy to upgrade, and cheaper than the others. I'd go for the 8800, just to be sure new games will run well.
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Unread postby Paulus1 » 30 Dec 2006, 19:54

You could get some inspiration here:
http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/dec-sy ... dex.x?pg=1

As for the OS, Windows Media Center 2005 is just a Windows XP with added media center software/functionality, so you really don't lose anything by choosing this one.

With regards to graphic cards, at the moment Nvidia 8800 GTX and GTS is king of the hill, but they don't exactly come for free.
They are the only DirectX 10 cards currently on market, but so far, there really aren't any DirectX 10 games in development.
A solid alternative, at half the price, is ATI Radeon X1950XT.

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Caradoc
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Unread postby Caradoc » 31 Dec 2006, 07:45

Paulus1 wrote:You could get some inspiration here:
http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/dec-sy ... dex.x?pg=1

As for the OS, Windows Media Center 2005 is just a Windows XP with added media center software/functionality, so you really don't lose anything by choosing this one.

With regards to graphic cards, at the moment Nvidia 8800 GTX and GTS is king of the hill, but they don't exactly come for free.
They are the only DirectX 10 cards currently on market, but so far, there really aren't any DirectX 10 games in development.
A solid alternative, at half the price, is ATI Radeon X1950XT.
Thanks for the advice.

I doubt the games I'll play will be demanding DirectX 10. I just want to get far enough ahead of the power curve to make my system last a good while. The ATI card may be a better value. And its looking like a fast single-core processor will be better than a dual core. I figure that multithreading does not buy you that much until you get to quad.

I've heard the Media Center itself eats a horrible amount of RAM, so I think I'll avoid it and save some money. I'm sure not going to get Vista.
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Unread postby Paulus1 » 31 Dec 2006, 12:17

Single core or Dual core depends on what tasks you are doing.
If you are doing more than one CPU-intensive task at a given time - or if the application is optimized for dual-core use - dual core will be better.

If you get the TV tuner card, and then do some video encoding or decoding (software), you will appreciate the dual core - video encoding tends to eat up CPU usage.

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Caradoc
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Unread postby Caradoc » 31 Dec 2006, 16:45

After much deliberation, this is what I think I am going to order. If you see something wrong, let me know ASAP as I need to pull the trigger on this soon. The whole thing costs $1200 from CyberPower, including shipping.

X-Discovery Mid-Tower Case 420W W/ WINDOW & LCD Temperature Display (Silver Color)

12in COLD CATHODE NEON LIGHT (BLUE COLOR)

Professional Wiring with High Performance Thermal Compound on CPU

MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express

CoolerMaster Liquid CPU Cooling Fan System Kit + 2 EXTRA CASE FANS

AMD Athlon™64 X2 5000+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology

1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader)

NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS 256MB 16X PCI Express Video Card (I will be able to add a second card later)

Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (320GB (160GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD

16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (SILVER)

PCI 56K V.92 FAX MODEM W/ VOICE

ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD

OPTI-UPS VS575C 575VA/345W UNINTERRUPT POWER SUPPLY

PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (SILVER COLOR)

PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (SILVER COLOR)

600WATT PMPO SUBWOOFER STEREO SPEAKERS

SOFTWARE
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 2
AGE OF EMPIRE III
RISE OF NATIONS: RISE OF LEGENDS
Rainbow Six Vegas Game
MICROSOFT® AGE OF MYTHOLOGY
Microsoft® Works v8.0
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Unread postby Kalah » 31 Dec 2006, 16:57

This looks like a real powerpack, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

A few notes:
Caradoc wrote:1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory
A good choice, though I would note that you will be getting two chips here. That's good to begin with, as you'll be getting dual channel RAM (writing to both chips simultaneously), but since it's only a total of 1Gb you will want to upgrade in no too long. A small "problem" then is that the two chips take up two slots, and might limit your upgrading options.
Caradoc wrote:2 Identical Hard Drives (320GB (160GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
Ah, yes, enough umph to launch the space shuttle twice a day :)
Caradoc wrote:Microsoft® Works v8.0
That Works package is just a huge piece of $hit. I honestly can't say enough negative things about it.

Good luck!
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Caradoc
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Unread postby Caradoc » 31 Dec 2006, 17:00

Yes, MS Works is awful, but it is free (as are the games).
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Unread postby Kalah » 31 Dec 2006, 17:02

When I ordered my PC from dell I tried to get them to send it with Works, but they couldn't... it was part of a package they just install and ship out. Luckily I was able to uninstall it right away without difficulty.
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Unread postby Paulus1 » 31 Dec 2006, 20:01

I gather that it's a package deal - and it looks good.

Two only things I'd change if I had the chance, would be to get one single 1 GB Ram block instead of the 2x512MB, and change the 2 HD for one with 320 GB on it, like the Seagate Barracuda. Both things are to keep future options for upgrading the system, without having to discard old hardware.

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Unread postby Kalah » 31 Dec 2006, 20:07

Of course, a new HD doesn't have to be integrated; it can just as easily be connected to the machine via USB. You can't do that with RAM chips..
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Unread postby Angelspit » 31 Dec 2006, 20:10

Caradoc wrote:PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (SILVER COLOR)
See if you can save money by removing that "default" mouse and buying one of your own. You can get a top-of-the-line Logitech mouse for about $30. Never underestimate the benefits of a good mouse.

And I agree with the single RAM block. I would be able to upgrade my current computer to 2 Gig if I hadn't purchased multiple blocks in the past.


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