Tae-Kwon-Do (Korean Karate) does not work in real life.

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Tae-Kwon-Do (Korean Karate) does not work in real life.

Unread postby coup de grace » 04 Jul 2006, 11:41

I found this interesting topic from Gamespy forum so i decided to copy it and see if what people here could say.
and its not my first time to post here my other account got banned a long time ago and i forgot the password so i decided to make a new account.

Here it is:

This is a warning to anyone that is currently taking, or is thinking about taking karate classes (or just wanting to learn how to defend themselves).

Whatever you do, do not take Tae-Kwon-Do. It is simular to Karate, except the quality of instruction is horrible. Tae-Kwon-Do is a horrible, and completly useless form of self defense for the following reasons....

1. Many Tae-Kwon-Do schools will give a Blackbelt to anyone regardless of skill level. They will give a Blackbelt to a little kid, or a fat arse that can't kick above his waist. In TKD it only takes two years to reach Blackbelt level. In most other arts it takes four to eight years depending on the art and how hard you try.

2. When sparring (practicing to fight) in Tae-Kwon-Do you are not allowed to punch to the head. That's right, the move that everyone in real life will use agianst you is not allowed in TKD sparring. Which means that a TKD guy has no experience in blocking punches to the face. Also there are a lot of TKD schools that do not allow you to actually hit your opponent at all (even though you are wearing about a hundred dollars worth of foam padded equipment). Instead you must stop short of hitting your opponent. This makes for terrible training since all the moves are slowed down to avoid hitting anyone.

3. In most TKD schools you are forced to learn something called forms. A form is a series of movements. In fact it's basically a dance. Forms are useless from a self defense standpoint. Many people are given a Blackbelt merely because they have learned the 50 plus forms required for the rank. Knowing tons of pretty dances does not make you a good fighter. In fact the time you spend on forms is much better spent on perfecting your punches, and kicks.

4. Many TKD schools have you do something called a "one-step". A One Step is a choreographed counter to a punch. One guy stands there ready to punch, and the other guy says "go". Then the first guy throws a punch, and the other guy does a counter to that punch. Ok so it sounds good at first. But in reality it is garbage. When doing one steps you are only allowed to throw an overextended slow lunge punch at your opponent. And after you punch you are required to hold your arm out there until your partner does his countermove. In real life someone will throw a fast punch that comes out of nowhere. When doing these one steps your partner stands there and let's you bend his wrist, trip him, punch him, etc. In real life when someone punches you they will not allow you to simply do whatever you want to them. When you go to do your little one step move they will punch you agian, and agian, and pull away. They will not let you grab their wrist and twist it or anything like that.

5. Kicks don't work. (TKD is almost nothing but fancy kicking). That's right you heard me. Kicks don't work. Want proof? Go watch some UFC fights. Are they kicking? No. Why? Because kicks are risky manuveurs that are more likley to get you into trouble than help you. When someone kicks you it is easy to just take the hit, grab their leg, and throw them to the ground. One kick in TKD is more likley to get your bones broken than your opponents. It's called the frontsnap kick. It is performed by pulling your toes back and hitting your opponent with the ball of your foot. The problem with this kick is that it is virtually impossible to pull your toes back far enough. It IS impossible to pull your toes back at all when wearing shoes. If you ever use this kick agianst anyone you will just wind up breaking your toes.

6. All TKD poeple live in a fantasy land where kicks are good, one steps work, and the longer you have been taking TKD teh d3ad1y3r U R!!11! Guess what? You can take this garbage for twenty odd years and still get killed in a real fight. Why? Because instead of actually learning to fight you are litterally Live Action Role Playing as the Blackbelt from Final Fantasy one. Yes wheither you know it or not you are not learning to fight. You are LARPing.

And just who am I to say that this Martial Art sucks? Well I took TKD for four years of my life. I took it back in the day when it was still a decent art. I was taking classes since long before most modern day Blackbelts donned their little white belts.

If you want to learn to defend yourself then go learn, Thai Boxing, Western Boxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Mixed Martial Arts (UFC stuff), Submission Wrestling, Judo, or even Karate. But for all you do, don't take TKD. You will wind up with a pretty Blackbelt that means nothing at all.

So anyway that's my rant. I hope I stop someone from getting caught up in this useless art.

I just want to remind you guys that Im not the one who wrote this I copied it from another Gamespy forum I dont know if thats allowed so just close this topic if its not allowed.

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Unread postby [T]osHiro » 07 Jul 2006, 12:49

Interesting article, but there are some things I like to point to the one who wrote this:
whoever wrote this wrote:...In most TKD schools you are forced to learn something called forms. A form is a series of movements. In fact it's basically a dance. Forms are useless from a self defense standpoint. Many people are given a Blackbelt merely because they have learned the 50 plus forms required for the rank. Knowing tons of pretty dances does not make you a good fighter. In fact the time you spend on forms is much better spent on perfecting your punches, and kicks...
First of all, it is NOT a dance. Dance is move rhythmically to the music, while this "form" does not require music. In fact, most martial arts I know have share this similarity with Tae-Kwon-Do. For Wushu, it is known as "routine", or "Kata" for Karate.

This "form" is an art. It is a sequence of movements in some martial arts, used either for training or to demonstrate techniques. Each move in a form has a meaning. Since it is mostly demonstrate in one person, it's move are unknown, so some people think that those arms flailing in a pattern is just some sort of dance, but when it's demonstrate with 3 or more people, by means of demonstrate the use of each movement, the meaning of the form will be much clearer.

Some forms are even breathing exercise, to stregthen your chi. As the higher the rank, the deeper and more complex a form you'll learn, so this can't be taught to anyone who does not know the basics of it. Also, form are not use as self-defense. Or else what's the use of "sparring" training. Got my point?
whoever wrote this wrote:...Many TKD schools have you do something called a "one-step". A One Step is a choreographed counter to a punch. One guy stands there ready to punch, and the other guy says "go". Then the first guy throws a punch, and the other guy does a counter to that punch. Ok so it sounds good at first. But in reality it is garbage. When doing one steps you are only allowed to throw an overextended slow lunge punch at your opponent. And after you punch you are required to hold your arm out there until your partner does his countermove. In real life someone will throw a fast punch that comes out of nowhere. When doing these one steps your partner stands there and let's you bend his wrist, trip him, punch him, etc. In real life when someone punches you they will not allow you to simply do whatever you want to them. When you go to do your little one step move they will punch you agian, and agian, and pull away. They will not let you grab their wrist and twist it or anything like that...
"One-Step" is not garbage. It is another way to teach people how to react or counter one or more opponent when someone attacks. IMO, I don't think Tae-Kwon-Do should take the blame for this, but the instructors who conduct the training.
whoever wrote this wrote:...Kicks don't work. (TKD is almost nothing but fancy kicking). That's right you heard me. Kicks don't work. Want proof? Go watch some UFC fights. Are they kicking? No. Why? Because kicks are risky maneuvers that are more likley to get you into trouble than help you. When someone kicks you it is easy to just take the hit, grab their leg, and throw them to the ground. One kick in TKD is more likly to get your bones broken than your opponents. It's called the frontsnap kick. It is performed by pulling your toes back and hitting your opponent with the ball of your foot. The problem with this kick is that it is virtually impossible to pull your toes back far enough. It IS impossible to pull your toes back at all when wearing shoes. If you ever use this kick agianst anyone you will just wind up breaking your toes.
Well first of all, I would like to point out that ALL kick are hard to execute wearing shoes. Try it by wearing your shoes and kick. Nothing can be accomplished except the flipping of your feet. I know the frontsnap kick, and it does break your bones, if you don’t do it correctly. Many students I’ve seen done remarkable frontsnap kicks to the face or the body and still walk around uninjured, and it is a fine hit.

I want to stress that Tae-Kwon-Do is an art. Just because getting a Blackbelt and still very inexperience doesn’t mean that the martial art stinks. Every martial arts have their own advantage and specialties, but what really matters is the instructor who decides how he wants us to teach the art. If the master wants to imply rules that make a sparring match look completely harmless (and useless), or a training session that is a total waste of time, then it is his/her fault. Still, that doesn’t mean that this whole thing is a bogus, imagine all the exercise during that training, at least its better than staring at the idiot box.

Lastly, I want to stress that martial arts is NOT USE FOR FIGHTING. Sure, in the old days when tournament matches was held, fighters are ask to sign a Death Certificate, which is the risk they’ll take when they step into the ring. I know some people who learn martial arts, killed someone and still walk around as a free man, but that kind of way of life is gone. I notice that the writer of this article state many points why Tae-Kwon-Do is a waste because it doesn’t teach kicks that actually harm your opponent instead of yourself, sparring that make the fighters look like sissies.... but that’s not the way to judge an art because it doesn’t teach you how to harm others. The world we live in emphasis on harmony, and thus lots of martial arts training have been ‘lenient’. Using martial arts to hurt another being is considered bullying, and it is a disgrace to the art and the person. Maybe that’s why the Tae-Kwon-Do the writer learns is extremely soft.
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Unread postby Ethric » 07 Jul 2006, 17:10

Many martial arts are like this, that you can't just take a few classes and then expect to know how to beat up people. In a proper self-defence course you'd learn whatever works against an attacker, like squeezing out his eyeball with your thumb and kick him in the nadgers. While in various martial arts you'd have to learn a lot more, forms and techniques and so forth, aimed to drill in the core techniques of the martial art in question and how to adapt them to any situation. You'd most likely need many years of training and become quite proficient before you could actually use it on a mugger or similar effectively.

The degree of usefulness varies with different arts of course, but if you're only after learning self-defence, you probably shouldn't choose any one martial art.
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Unread postby Thelonious » 08 Jul 2006, 22:05

Ethric wrote:The degree of usefulness varies with different arts of course, but if you're only after learning self-defence, you probably shouldn't choose any one martial art.
What about Judo? It's all about flouring your opponent and then hold him down.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 08 Jul 2006, 22:17

Thelonious wrote:What about Judo? It's all about flouring your opponent and then hold him down.
:lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu:


It's actualy more about flooring you oponent so hard he doesn't get back up.
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 09 Jul 2006, 12:53

Well, there are lots of things that could be said about the original article but I'll just make a few comments.

All martial arts have their advantages and disadvantages and entail philosophies, not just blows and elbows.

You get out of it what you put into it. Many hours of wholehearted training are necessary. Only repetition can make the proper form "instinctive" so you no longer have to concentrate on the proper form when you throw a punch or kick in the spur of the moment when you need it. It will also help to develop self discipline which is so very lacking in most modern societies.

One advantage of any martial arts is it tends to make you play the "what if" game in your mind repeatedly. By repeatedly envisioning things that could possibly happen you are better prepared to respond when something does happen.

If you are forced to fight for yourself, your family or to save another from serious harm by all means do so. However if you are facing a mugger with a gun or a knife it is better to give up your wallet than your life. You will have to be the judge of wether to submit or fight. You may think yourself to be Bruce Lee but in real life you won't be catching bullets between your teeth.

If you are forced to fight in a serious situation try to remain as calm as you can and be aware of your surroundings. Make use of everything available to you. The simplest of things (like an ink pen) can be used to deadly effect. Yell for help. Most of us in these modern times aren't ever really that far from other people. Try to keep obstacles between you and the attacker to buy you time. Do whatever it takes for you to survive.

Martial arts are about defending yourself, not about beating someone up. They can give you confidence and prepare you to act, not just react in threatening situations. I encourage everyone who can find the time to begin to practice a martial art that they are comfortable with. It will benefit you in your daily life, not just in the odd occassion of defending your life which hopefully none of you will ever have to face.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 09 Jul 2006, 16:05

As the sensei said that year and something when i took karate, you can master all the forms and everything, but if you're not used to actualy fighting another person they won't do you much good.
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Unread postby Ethric » 09 Jul 2006, 16:37

Thelonious wrote: What about Judo? It's all about flouring your opponent and then hold him down.
Sure, but actually accomplishing this while a grizzled streetfighter (who doesn't know when he is supposed to fall down) is bashing your skull against the concrete might not be all that easy. I'm no expert, but if you want to learn selfdefence fast you're better off with all the dirty tricks that many martial arts wouldn't dream of using. Learning a martial art properly is more of a long term project.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 09 Jul 2006, 16:46

Ethric wrote: Sure, but actually accomplishing this while a grizzled streetfighter (who doesn't know when he is supposed to fall down) is bashing your skull against the concrete might not be all that easy.
You need to stop watching so many action flicks.

Judo = upper body strenght. So you don't want to get close to a judo guy in a fight.
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Unread postby Ethric » 09 Jul 2006, 16:57

Action flicks? No, the point I am trying to make is that it can be very dangerous to take a few lessons of judo or whatever and then go out into the world thinking you are invincible. Because those you train with in lessons aren't actually trying to harm you.

But obviously, someone who has trained judo vigorously for 20 years could wipe the street with a half a dozen untrained people :)
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 09 Jul 2006, 17:19

Ethric wrote:But obviously, someone who has trained judo vigorously for 20 years could wipe the street with a half a dozen untrained people :)
20 years is too much. After 5 years you should have enough upper body strenght to throw a guy to the floor hard enough for him to think twice about getting back up. Of course you do have to get close enough for that first.

And thinking you're invincible is a bad ideea no matter how much training and exp you have. One lucky punch/kick to the face and your world might start spinning.
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Unread postby Caradoc » 13 Jul 2006, 05:45

What I want to know is whether martial arts work in zero-G.
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Unread postby Suleman » 13 Jul 2006, 22:02

ThunderTitan wrote:
Thelonious wrote:What about Judo? It's all about flouring your opponent and then hold him down.
:lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu: :lolu:


It's actualy more about flooring you oponent so hard he doesn't get back up.
Actually, it's about flooring your opponent so well that the ref grants you an ippon. Judo is about the good execution and evasion of throws. Judo is not primarily a combat art, though it can be used in a fight.
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Unread postby Campaigner » 13 Jul 2006, 22:24

I trained Taek-Won-Do until green belt. I failed at the exam to green belt with blue stripe :(

But Taek-Won-Do is a load of bull. You're only allowed to use kicks to the waist and higher and punches to the body. I trained Thaiboxing for 3 months and that was BRUTAL! Some times my thinbones were so tormented that I walked as slow as an old lady. There it was punches, elbows (the POWER...of the elbow :D) powerful kicks, grips and knees. There was a movie about a young Thaiboxer that's forced to fight various people and that guys completely brutal (he's a nice guy though). Man, you should see how he uses his elbows and knees. I would give alot to be able to fight like him :D

Ethric: Heh, sounds like you've been in the army ;) I've seen the marines hand-to-hand combat handbook and those things are just lethal. Actually made me feel ill just reading it.

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Unread postby Ethric » 13 Jul 2006, 22:36

I'v been in the Norwegian army as a drafted medic, so didn't learn much hee-haw :) What I wrote above was more of a common sense type thing, but I've also dabbled in aikido. Bloody useless as a selfdefence training (wasn't why I started it anyway though), but seeing a 6th dans powers is downright spooky 8|

But no matter how supernatural your powers may be, if someone surprises you with a good hard whack to the back of the head as you stroll down the street minding your own business, you're going down.
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Unread postby asandir » 13 Jul 2006, 23:27

this is all mostly true, if you want a MARTIAL ART that can be about as effective as possible for real life fighting - take up BOXING, it will teach you many things, how to take a hit, how to make a hit count and how to outlast an opponent, and as a bonus it won't teach you how to kick, which will help a lot!!

and then go learn some dirty tricks like ethric said (elbows, eye-gouges and headbutting, plus the close range knee to the old fella)

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Re: Tae-Kwon-Do (Korean Karate) does not work in real life.

Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 13 Jul 2006, 23:28

coup de grace wrote: 5. Kicks don't work. (TKD is almost nothing but fancy kicking). That's right you heard me. Kicks don't work. Want proof? Go watch some UFC fights. Are they kicking? No. Why? Because kicks are risky manuveurs that are more likley to get you into trouble than help you. When someone kicks you it is easy to just take the hit, grab their leg, and throw them to the ground. One kick in TKD is more likley to get your bones broken than your opponents. It's called the frontsnap kick. It is performed by pulling your toes back and hitting your opponent with the ball of your foot. The problem with this kick is that it is virtually impossible to pull your toes back far enough. It IS impossible to pull your toes back at all when wearing shoes. If you ever use this kick agianst anyone you will just wind up breaking your toes.
Ok,since you are so "works in theory but sucks in real life" Ill give you a counter example just for this one(I dont want to read your whole post,since its way to subjective):

One day in my elementary school a guy was picking on one other guy.Now the first one was about a head taller then the second one,and way more bulkier.But what he didnt know(and most of others didnt as well)the second guy was learning tae kwon do for many years.So what did he do?He kicked the first guy straight in the face.No warning,nothing,he just jumped a bit and kicked the guy in about one second.The first guy couldnt even react,could even see the kick.He ended with a fractured nose,and fell down(both of them got their final warnings before expulsion after that,yes our school system is less strict,I know).So what if it doesnt work in the UFTs?Those things are crap anyway.This is your real life example.UFT is not real life.

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Unread postby Ethric » 14 Jul 2006, 01:25

Kids beating each other up isn't really that convincing a counterargument :)
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 14 Jul 2006, 01:43

Ethric wrote:Kids beating each other up isn't really that convincing a counterargument :)
Still is better then "Did you ever see them do that in the UTF?"

Besides,they were 15 at the time,so yes the parallel can be drawn between them and adults.

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Unread postby asandir » 14 Jul 2006, 02:35

i'd still take my point from above over that example DL


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