6/6/2006 - A question about fate, free will, and our control

DaveO · Unread postby **DaveO** » 08 Jun 2006, 03:08

Yesterday was the release of the Omen remake movie, and it made me wonder about the age old arguments of fate, free will, or humanity just being puppets of a higher power. I firmly believe in our ability to create and shape our own destinies, but I was curious on how others here felt.

asandir · Unread postby **asandir** » 08 Jun 2006, 03:33

free will for me .... too much the "scientist" to believe in things for which the "evidence" requires much faith

[T]osHiro · Unread postby **[T]osHiro** » 08 Jun 2006, 03:58

I thought we have a similar thread as this.

BTW, free will.

Ethric · Unread postby **Ethric** » 08 Jun 2006, 04:35

Hehe, fate... if there is a fate, so that everything is predetermined, then whatever happens was meant to happen and that's that. You can't change it, if you do then you didn't really, it was just your fate to believe you changed your fate while in reality you acted in accordance to it, as there is no other option.

So for me the concept of fate is rather meaningless. Time is linear (yes yes speed of light and all that, but complicated science doesn't normally happen to people), stuff happens because of the rather boring cause->effect principle, and it's up to people to do what they think is best.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 08 Jun 2006, 06:00

I didnt vote,because my oppinion here differes from those choices.Fate would mean that there was some greater plan that someone(or something)made in the begining and that we can find it out and/or change it.Though it is true that everything has been predetermened in the very begining of the universe,there is no way to discover this plan,because there is no plan.There wasnt any sentient being that designed that begining,it just happened.And if you ask me why,well its because if it was any different,we wouldnt be here to ask that question(I think this is called the rule of antropomorphism,though Im not sure).

Our every action is predetermened,but there is no way to find out what the future holds,because that would mean it would play out differently.Thats why I dont believe in those silly omens.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 09:55

stefan.urlus wrote:free will for me .... too much the "scientist" to believe in things for which the "evidence" requires much faith

And free will is proven? Since when? Doesn't science tell you we're ust biological machines that respond to events based on chemical reactions in their brains that are influenced by previous experiences that we're out of out control? Doesn't exactly sound like free will to me.

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 08 Jun 2006, 10:33

Free will I choose, my own path I make, on the road of challenges, into the future. I step into yet a greater void of walls, which may lead to sources beyond my control, attemting to ruin my progress, if I succed on my path, will yet again give the spark of life a higher meaning, gives the feeling of be alive, to live, the meaning of life is to live and die, its what you do in between that means something for you as person and being.
Life is free, but clouded by a prison of rules, societies.... Life always find a way out of crises. One person can change a whole. Each one of us are worth something, no matter of each persons acts on instinct and intelligence, every person are so unique that it feels like each one of us are controlled by fate, by destiny, some higher power. No surprise since we humans in fact have a gene that gives us the need, the addiction to belive into something greater, so we can feel us well, protected and watched over by powers that in fact arent there.. We are free but so free that it feels we are part of something not exsistent.

Reading such threads makes me a whole lot more philosophical.....a bit too much maybe

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 08 Jun 2006, 10:39

ThunderTitan wrote: And free will is proven? Since when? Doesn't science tell you we're ust biological machines that respond to events based on chemical reactions in their brains that are influenced by previous experiences that we're out of out control? Doesn't exactly sound like free will to me.

There are those who thinks that the "random" nature of quantum mechanics might be a source of Free Will. That sounds rather bogus to me, but it is true that the laws of nature isn't totally deterministic.

Xenofex.XVII · Unread postby **Xenofex.XVII** » 08 Jun 2006, 10:54

I voted "free will"
But I believe in none of them

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 11:05

Gaidal Cain wrote: There are those who thinks that the "random" nature of quantum mechanics might be a source of Free Will. That sounds rather bogus to me, but it is true that the laws of nature aren't totally deterministic.

Random isn't exactly free. And quantum physics are more about PoV then anything.

As I understood it's not that the cat isn't dead or alive, it's just that you can't know until you open the box, which actualy effects the experiment, thus you can't really know how things will play out on their own.

By existing in this universe we're limited in our view of it. The whole being tied up in a cave with your back to the fire. (Plato, right?)

Grumpy Old Wizard · Unread postby **Grumpy Old Wizard** » 08 Jun 2006, 11:31

I believe in a God who created us with the ability to chose our own path. We chose who we become though He is perfectly willing and able to help us to become better human beings.

GOW

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 11:47

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:I believe in a God who created us with the ability to chose our own path.

I was under the impresion that chosing our own path came with eating the wrong fruit. The whole knowledge of good and evil thing.

jeff · Unread postby **jeff** » 08 Jun 2006, 11:48

Free will, people use the other explanations as excuses for their own ineptitude.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 11:51

jeff wrote:Free will, people use the other explanations as excuses for their own ineptitude.

Of course, people's choices aren't influences by their previous experiences at all...

theLuckyDragon · Unread postby **theLuckyDragon** » 08 Jun 2006, 12:12

I firmly believe that Anything is Possible; partly because of this, I agree with bits and pieces of what the other posters said. However, I totally agree with GOW, who summarized an idea that is in my belief too, and to which I would add that there is a certain dose of destiny, sometimes...

Anything is Possible, though.

Corribus · Unread postby **Corribus** » 08 Jun 2006, 13:59

I probably don't even need to say where I stand on this one...

Ethric · Unread postby **Ethric** » 08 Jun 2006, 14:20

ThunderTitan wrote: And free will is proven? Since when? Doesn't science tell you we're ust biological machines that respond to events based on chemical reactions in their brains that are influenced by previous experiences that we're out of out control? Doesn't exactly sound like free will to me.

Well if you knew every contributing factor, and the precise meaning of said factors, you could very well be able to predict how people will act in a given situation. But that doesn't mean they weren't free to chose what they wanted, just that you had the knowledge to predict what they'd choose.

Corribus wrote:I probably don't even need to say where I stand on this one...

That's right, there's no requirement to post a reply to any thread on this forum; you are free to choose.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 18:10

Ethric wrote: Well if you knew every contributing factor, and the precise meaning of said factors, you could very well be able to predict how people will act in a given situation. But that doesn't mean they weren't free to chose what they wanted, just that you had the knowledge to predict what they'd choose.

So basicaly anything you do is predetermined, but you still have free will? Since when? Not being controled by a "higher" power doesn't mean ur free.

Milla aka. the Slayer · Unread postby **Milla aka. the Slayer** » 08 Jun 2006, 18:32

Voted Free will. Destiny only exists in people's minds so that they can blame something else for all the fucked up things that happen in their lives. Destiny is a sorry excuse IMO... it's a good theme in movies though

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 08 Jun 2006, 18:45

Milla aka. the Slayer wrote: Destiny only exists in people's minds so that they can blame something else for all the **** up things that happen in their lives. Destiny is a sorry excuse IMO... it's a good theme in movies though

Somehow getting killed by an airplane falling on ur head doesn't strike me as Free Will. Or rising taxes, getting struck by lighning, tornadoes, being born in a certain place etc.

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6/6/2006 - A question about fate, free will, and our control

Do you believe in fate, our free will, or are we merely puppets?

6/6/2006 - A question about fate, free will, and our control

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