Zombies!

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Zombies!

Postby Ethric » Jul 2 2011, 18:24

Why do vampires get to be heroes and villains in popular culture, whereas the poor zombies are always nameless antagonists? Of meaningful characters that are also zombies I can only name a couple, and they both live in Ankh Morpork (Pratchett having his own original twist on everything, including zombies).

Anyone else have good examples of zombie characters in books, games, movies, whatever? Or must we join Reg Shoe in his campaign for undead recognition? Perhaps aided by the legal expertise of Mr Slant.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jul 2 2011, 19:38

Because that's their defining trait. It's like asking why snails are slow.

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Postby Kalah » Jul 2 2011, 20:26

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2000/2/4/

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/12/

Zombies are rotting. Drooling. Disgusting. Vampires are dark and mysterious. ;)
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Re: Zombies!

Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 2 2011, 20:42

Ethric wrote: Of meaningful characters that are also zombies I can only name a couple, and they both live in Ankh Morpork .


Someone obviously hasn't seen Idle Hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Uh5L8zDVA
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Re: Zombies!

Postby Ethric » Jul 3 2011, 0:14

GreatEmerald wrote:Because that's their defining trait. It's like asking why snails are slow.


No because you see, snails are real observable creatures, with certain set traits common to their species. Whereas zombies are fictional entities, and as such doesn't have any definite characteristics aside from those given to them by spinners of fiction.

Kalah wrote:Zombies are rotting. Drooling. Disgusting. Vampires are dark and mysterious. ;)


As vampires have evolved, in fiction, from hideous monsters to dashing debonairs and anything inbetween, I'm wanting to see my favourite pets the zombies be given some broader roles too. Go back to your twilight-books :tongue:

ThunderTitan wrote: Someone obviously hasn't seen Idle Hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Uh5L8zDVA


Dunno about somebody, but I haven't. That reminds me of Dead Heat, which wasn't really any better than Idle Hands looks to be from that clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jus4GsEk ... re=related

Would be fun with a movie or series about zombies that has them as everyday people trying to fit in or somesuch.

Appearantly another movie about a zombie cop, called... Zombie Cop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEeDYK5oqrU

Starting to see a pattern in movies with untraditional zombies...
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Re: Zombies!

Postby Kalah » Jul 3 2011, 0:57

Ethric wrote:Go back to your twilight-books :tongue:


Who's talking about Twilight? I'm thinking about Buffy. And Angel. As you well know, Joss is boss ... Hmm, I wonder how he would have directed a zombie flick.
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Re: Zombies!

Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 3 2011, 1:01

Ethric wrote:Whereas zombies are fictional entities,



Actually zombie as slaves to witch doctors was something with recorded evidence...
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Postby Ethric » Jul 3 2011, 10:24

And if someone somewhere have ever drunk another persons blood, that means vampires aren't fictional either? You can hardly take one nugget of similarity to real world stuff and from that conclude that movie zombies aren't fictional. And that haitian drug-thing is not exactly proven science either.
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Postby Kalah » Jul 3 2011, 10:49

Well, it is, actually. Using tetrodotoxin to induce a deathly state in live persons. But that kind of zombie is a very far cry from the flesh-decaying ravagers we see in traditional zombie movies.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 3 2011, 11:07

Ethric wrote:And if someone somewhere have ever drunk another persons blood, that means vampires aren't fictional either? You can hardly take one nugget of similarity to real world stuff and from that conclude that movie zombies aren't fictional. And that haitian drug-thing is not exactly proven science either.



Difference is that unlike vampires, movie zombies aren't based on actual legend zombies any more, but are closer to Ghouls. (i think Night of the Living Dead started the trend, and they weren't even called zombies in that)

The real Zombie is the one that's basically a slave of a witch doctor, and slavery isn't fictional, neurotoxin or simply drug addiction or whatnot.
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Postby Ethric » Jul 3 2011, 12:32

ThunderTitan wrote: Difference is that unlike vampires, movie zombies aren't based on actual legend zombies any more, but are closer to Ghouls.


Firstly, todays movie vampires aren't based on legend vampires any more than zombies are. Secondly, that reinforces my point: reality has nothing to do with it, so there's ample room for innovation and break from the norm.
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Postby hatsforclowns » Jul 3 2011, 13:44

Fine, let's make zombies glittering emo newfag angstridden existential living dead who drink Dom Perignon and watch Desperate Housewives.

The simple fact is that Bela Lugosi and Wesley Snipes are still going to kick your ****.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 3 2011, 15:50

Ethric wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote: Difference is that unlike vampires, movie zombies aren't based on actual legend zombies any more, but are closer to Ghouls.


Firstly, todays movie vampires aren't based on legend vampires any more than zombies are.


Vampires are still bloodsucking dead people that want to steal our womyn... even if they now do it by being emo stalkers.

Zombies on the other hand are flesh hungry undead, which was not a feature of zombies, but of ghouls... the only thing that's left is that they're still pretty mindless...
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Postby Ethric » Jul 3 2011, 16:05

Vampires have changed radically from hideous flesheating monstrosities to "glittering emo newfag angstridden existential living dead", while zombies on the other hand are still the mindless creatures they always were... either both have changed alot, or neither have.

Why persist with this pointless definiton-contest? Both vampires and zombies are ficticious creatures shaped partly from various old legends and partly from cultural invention in books, movies and so forth. If you keep it up I'm going to start discussing the evolution of trolls, with you as the current end product.

Though why Bela Lugosi and Wesley Snipes would tag-team for an asskicking contest is beyond me.

Kalah wrote:Well, it is, actually. Using tetrodotoxin to induce a deathly state in live persons. But that kind of zombie is a very far cry from the flesh-decaying ravagers we see in traditional zombie movies.


Well so then it isn't afterall, actually. A deathly state in live persons is quite the opposite of a lively state in dead persons. The drug doesn't do that, at best you can make someone look dead, and in the right kind of superstitous society make both the person and the people around think he's undead, and use that for your own nefarious means.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 3 2011, 16:28

Ethric wrote:Vampires have changed radically from hideous flesheating monstrosities to "glittering emo newfag angstridden existential living dead", while zombies on the other hand are still the mindless creatures they always were... either both have changed alot, or neither have.


Vampires where never flesh eating... they always drank blood. And 90% of monsters are mindless...

Vampires have just changed personalities, which isn't that big of a deal when talking about aware monsters... Zombies on the other hand have changed from servants to witch doctors to flesh eating corpses, which is close to what a ghoul is... and all because of a movie too.

Well so then it isn't afterall, actually. A deathly state in live persons is quite the opposite of a lively state in dead persons. The drug doesn't do that, at best you can make someone look dead.


And that's what Zombies where*... before a cheap horror film, which doesn't even use the word, used animated corpses that where more akin to ghouls, and started a trend of "zombie" films (called so because americans knew more about witch doctors then Arabic lore)...

* I mean back they had no concept of clinically dead etc.

Secondly, that reinforces my point: reality has nothing to do with it, so there's ample room for innovation and break from the norm.


Yeah, but going too far will make "zombie" a even more generic term... and then you might as well call the walking corpse something else...
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Postby Kalah » Jul 3 2011, 16:34

Ethric wrote:Well so then it isn't afterall, actually. A deathly state in live persons is quite the opposite of a lively state in dead persons. The drug doesn't do that, at best you can make someone look dead, and in the right kind of superstitous society make both the person and the people around think he's undead, and use that for your own nefarious means.


Yes, I wasn't saying that your kind of flesh-eating zombies had root in reality; I was responding directly to TT's claim that the "Haitian drug thing" wasn't proven by science. It is.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 3 2011, 16:38

Kalah wrote:I was responding directly to TT's claim that the "Haitian drug thing" wasn't proven by science. It is.


You must have me confused... i'm the thing that regenerates unless you apply fire or acid, use people for snacks and kidnap babies and replace them with my own...

While he is the rotting corpse with a phylactery (or a needle inside an egg inside a duck etc...).

(he said that about the science)
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Postby Kalah » Jul 3 2011, 16:51

You're right, it was him. Get him, get 'iiim!! *grabs pitchfork* :beheading:
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Postby Ethric » Jul 3 2011, 16:57

So one guy claiming he was a zombie slave is scientific proof? Well sure...

Anyways, you guys are daft for trying to... actually I'm not really sure. But it's certainly off topic, so cease and desist.
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Postby Kalah » Jul 3 2011, 18:07

What was the topic again? Oh, yes, zombies. I mean, what I was going to say was that most video games (and movies) are true to the old "Night of the living dead" adage that zombies are walking rotting corpses eating brains, aren't they? Are there many alternative depictions out there?
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