Neutral Units Bonuses

Official forum of the Wake of Gods mod to Heroes of Might and Magic III.

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The formula for bonuses shoud be like?

Poll ended at Oct 26 2007, 0:20

1. 7 attack, 7 defense and 50% hp every month like it is now?
2
33%
2. % of base attack and defense every month(lower creatures gain slower bonuses)
4
67%
 
Total votes: 6

BAD23ro

Neutral Units Bonuses

Postby BAD23ro » Jan 12 2006, 22:22

REMOVED FOR NOW.
Last edited by BAD23ro on Aug 11 2009, 23:31, edited 59 times in total.

RiccElijah
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Postby RiccElijah » Jan 13 2006, 11:30

explain what the scripts actually do and I'll tell my PoW.. only theorical thugh 'cause I really have played very little of Wog so I didn't test it through

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Postby Pol » Jan 13 2006, 16:28

RiccElijah wrote:explain what the scripts actually do and I'll tell my PoW.. only theorical thugh 'cause I really have played very little of Wog so I didn't test it through


They do a lots of things, sometimes too much scripts used together can generate very unexpected results.

Myself I'm often using the Neutral Unit Bonuses but not Stack Growth as here aren't enough variables to control it by make it dpending on something... (well I may, pure theoretically, alter the script but you asked... )

BTW Please could you integrate the Ishmael Beholder script which solved the "Magogs" firing in our own lines problem. This one was handy solution.
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BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Jan 13 2006, 22:49

RiccElijah wrote:explain what the scripts actually do and I'll tell my PoW.. only theorical thugh 'cause I really have played very little of Wog so I didn't test it through



1. Neutral Units Bonuses:

** The Neutral Units option adds a bonus of +1 Attack and +1 Defense for every
** 4 game days (plus an additional base bonus of +1 Attack and +1 Defense) to
** neutral creatures. It also adds approximately +6-6.99% Health every four days
** (+10.5-12.25% per week), gives Bless to all living neutral creatures, and
** Expert Precision to all neutral Archers to make the game more competitive.
** Also units from Dragon Utopia, Creature Banks, Creature Generators, Crypt,
** Fishing Well, Garrisons, Death Chamber and Adventure Cave receive these bonuses.
** Bonuses are also given to creatures defending neutral towns.


2. Neutral Stack Growth:

Starting with more creatures will also effectively result in them growing faster, although the actual weekly rate of growth remains unchanged.

Formula is:

Level 1 Units: 30-50 +10% per week
Level 2 Units: 30-40 +10% per week
Level 3 Units: 35-50 +10% per week
Level 4 Units: 50 + 10% per week
Level 5 Units: 50 + 10% per week
Level 6 Units: 50 + 10% per week
Level 7 Units: 20-30 + 10% per week
Level 8 Units: 20 + 10% per week
Last edited by BAD23ro on Oct 19 2010, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Nucleon
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Re: Neutral Units Bonuses and Stack Growth

Postby Nucleon » Jan 19 2006, 15:36

BAD23ro wrote:Hi All,

I'm the author of these scripts along side Fnord.....


Well, thanks a lot for that. :)

I just want to collect some information and to see if my scripts "Neutral Units Bonuses and Neutral Stack Growth" for Heroes III WoG are popular and if not I will make more changes for them....In my country are popular but I just want to know your opinions about them...


P.S These scripts make the game more competitive and therefore are recommended only for skilled players.


Sometimes, in the shorter maps, this extra difficulty is needed. But it quickly becomes a problem on long ones. I dare say that I prefer "Neutral Stack Experience" and "Neutral Town and Creature Bank Growth" on these, althought I would like Neutral Towns and Creature Banks monsters to have the bonuses that you kindly explained in "Neutral Unit Bonuses".

BAD23ro

Re: Neutral Units Bonuses and Stack Growth

Postby BAD23ro » Jan 20 2006, 14:25

Nucleon wrote:Sometimes, in the shorter maps, this extra difficulty is needed. But it quickly becomes a problem on long ones. I dare say that I prefer "Neutral Stack Experience" and "Neutral Town and Creature Bank Growth" on these, althought I would like Neutral Towns and Creature Banks monsters to have the bonuses that you kindly explained in "Neutral Unit Bonuses".



Is possible to defeat even the worst nightmare fights

I forgot to mention that Werewolf, ancient and Ghost behemoth, nightmare, mighty gorgons dont have at all bonuses only ranks
Last edited by BAD23ro on Sep 26 2007, 0:17, edited 2 times in total.

obelisk
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Postby obelisk » Mar 23 2007, 11:05

actually the scripts don't make the game SO hard at all. i use neutral unit bonuses, neutral unit size, carmic battles, creature banks and dwellings accumulate guards and it is hardly ever difficult.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Sep 19 2007, 20:02

obelisk wrote:actually the scripts don't make the game SO hard at all. i use neutral unit bonuses, neutral unit size, carmic battles, creature banks and dwellings accumulate guards and it is hardly ever difficult.



Depends what scripts you are using, how manny times you get the exp for ranks and what difficulty ;)

I can tell you, that with normal exp, after 4-5 months the game is quite hard...I never intended to make the game absurd, but not boring and therefore created that :-D
Last edited by BAD23ro on Sep 21 2007, 19:43, edited 1 time in total.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Sep 19 2007, 20:07

Well, I opened this topic a few months ago to hear some opinions, but lots of players dont even read forums and will be a bit hard for me to find the improvements and so on :D


Anyway, I'm open to hear more suggestions about "Neutral Units Bonuses" , "Neutral Stack Growth" :)


Post here and when I'll have time, I'll reply to them or even implement in the future updates :)


Tnx again :)
Last edited by BAD23ro on Sep 21 2007, 19:43, edited 1 time in total.

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InsaneWallaby
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Postby InsaneWallaby » Sep 21 2007, 13:37

It's been awhile since I've played WoG, but if I recall correctly, I use the neutral stack growth or at least some invariant of it, if there is another. I like it quite a bit, but my only problem with it would be that all the units are turned savage. I know you like it for the difficulty, but in my eyes, it would almost work better with two scripts--one that turns them savage, and another that makes the stacks larger. Essentially, they are two different functions, if you think about it, and perhaps I'm thinking of too encapsulated of a view, but I like to separate out different functions in programs to keep the program the most customizable. This is no different. Additionally, the extra unpredictability of creatures joining up with your forces makes the game more fun in my opinion.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Sep 21 2007, 15:20

InsaneWallaby wrote:It's been awhile since I've played WoG, but if I recall correctly, I use the neutral stack growth or at least some invariant of it, if there is another. I like it quite a bit, but my only problem with it would be that all the units are turned savage. I know you like it for the difficulty, but in my eyes, it would almost work better with two scripts--one that turns them savage, and another that makes the stacks larger. Essentially, they are two different functions, if you think about it, and perhaps I'm thinking of too encapsulated of a view, but I like to separate out different functions in programs to keep the program the most customizable. This is no different. Additionally, the extra unpredictability of creatures joining up with your forces makes the game more fun in my opinion.



When the diplomacy will be fixed and more balanced (in Heroes IV is more balanced), I'll make more changes into Neutral Stack Growth :)...Maybe, I'll make my self a script for that, but isnt on my list yet :)

What about Neutral Bonuses Units? What can you suggest about this one?


Also, I dont even have time to finish my new scripts for 3.59 because of my work, but I'll do my best to reply to all sooner or later ;)

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Sep 26 2007, 0:12

Some friends suggested me to change the formula of this script.

The Current formula is like this:

- 7 attack and 7 defense every month to all creatures;
- 48-50% more health(base health every month to all creatures).

An Archangel in month 3(without creature ranks) will have 495 health, 44 attack and defense.

A Royal Griffin in month 3(without creature ranks) will have 49 health, 23 attack and defense.


I want to change the formula because seems unfair that all creatures to gain the same attack and defense.

The new formula could be by a % from basic attack and defense.

A Royal Griffin in month 3(without creature ranks) will have just 14 attack and defense instead of 23.


I wont be able to reply for at least 1 week because of short time.

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Postby doom3d » Sep 26 2007, 18:45

I don't used to switch on both options. It would be too much.
I tried it out on a championship- number of players were halved.

I suggest to lower bonuses, including numbers for high level creatures, at least when both options are ON. Lower lvls could have unchanged or increased bonuses.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 3 2007, 23:01

Omega wrote:@BAD23ro

Well, I like the formula with 7 attack, 7 defense and 50% hp every month, but as you posted I think is better that lower creatures to gain less.

Anyway, I hope creatures higher then level 6 will gain at least as old formula.



Well, I'm planning that for creatures higher that lvl 5 the formula to be at least for hp.

I created this poll to ask people about lower creatures and middle ones.

I must remind you all that lower and middle one creatures will still gain hp, but slower and in lower % that is in the current formula.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 4 2007, 23:09

READ 1st POST about whats new and future changes!

I added a link with latest version of the script with the new changes



Please read also the readme and if have suggestions post here.

More changes to come for this script+new scripts that will work just with script57(read first post about this)

To work with 3.58 just rename script057.erm to script57.erm


This version is still beta and the formula isnt final!

A Short description for the new changes:

1. The old formula was: every 4 days with 1.75 attack , defense and 7% health from base stats for all creatures.
2. The new formula is:

- 1% more health per day from base stats for level 1-4 creatures;
- 1% more attack,defense per day from base stats for level 1-4 creatures;
- 2% more health per day from base stats for lvl 5-8 creatures;
- 1.12% more attack,defense per day from base stats for level 5-8 creatures.


For instance:
=============

1. Old formula
In month 3, a royal griffin had(without creature ranks) around 98% more hp and 14 attack and defense(23 attack and defense and 49.5 health). With creature ranks at lvl 10 will be 62.5 health after 56 days.

2. New Formula
In month 3, a royal griffin can have(without creature ranks) around 56% more health and 5.04 attack and defense(14 attack and defense and 39 health). With creature ranks at lvl 10 will be 51.5 health after 56 days.

P.S I changed because was unfair that all creatures to get the same attack and defense.

Now, will be easier to lvl up your hero with new bonuses against level 1-4 creatures, but a bit harder against level 5-8 that before.

NOTE:
=====

Some players requested that heroes should get more experience from lvl 5-8 and I might add this in next version.

For instance:
==============

An archangel has 250 health, that means 250 experience. If the archangel will have 250(530) we still get 250, but perhaps in the future will be as is shown in the brackets(in this case will be 530 experience) or a % from that.


Post your suggestions about this, if have :)

BAD23ro

Re: Neutral Units Bonuses and Stack Growth

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 7 2007, 1:06

---
Last edited by BAD23ro on Oct 20 2010, 0:20, edited 1 time in total.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 7 2007, 1:08

I mentioned that I'm working on a script that will help players when using script57.

This script will have a check before map will be created to see if script57 is active or incompatilities, otherwise will be overpowered and will be turned off showing a message. In same cases will turn off the incompatibilities.

Beside, this script will make spells for casters on adventure map more usefull, heroes will have a chance to start even with 3 army slots(even in tavern will be a chance for that, but not more that 2 heroes of any towns), heroes that have a creature speciality will be able to upgrade anywhere on the map(even without a town), if some requirements are met and much more. Also, will have integrated a new movement formula, like this:

- All Heroes(for human and AI) will have from start around 22 movement, instead of 15 movement;
- All heroes will gain 1 movement every 3 lvls(those heroes with a speciality will gain a bit more but the formula for them will be changed as well, to make sure that wont be unbalance);
- Creatures with higher speed will give more movement(for instance: a lvl 1 has 22 movement with pikemans, but with a creature that has at least 10 speed, the hero will have around 27 movement)
- The maximum movement can be 100 at lvl 99, but at lvl 20 can have an average of 29 (without logistics and artifacts). At lvl 30 with logistics(without artifacts) and an average speed of 8 for all creatures, the hero will have around 42-45 movement.

Why I created this movement formula?

Well, is because seems unfair for me that a lvl 30 hero to have the same movement as a lvl 1 hero, and think about that you wanna finish the map and you'll have the movement advantage, because you were better and killed his main hero :) (heroes that died and if they will appear again in tavern, will have the same movement per his level. Wont start with 22 movement as in the beginning. )

Anyway, 22-25 movement from start for all heroes :)

Question for all of you: What do you think about the "helping script"? I havent mentioned all the things that will be included, just a few for now

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 8 2007, 0:31

I found some issues in the new formula for some units(lvl 1,2,7,8 after my tests) and will be soon an update

The link has been removed from 1st page due of some issues. Soon will be a new update.

Thank you Gundula for reporting that issue :)

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 9 2007, 2:45

Script updated again. Still is beta.

BAD23ro

Postby BAD23ro » Oct 16 2007, 21:18

Formula will be changed again(tested and seems the bonuses for attack and defense are too low with new formula; will be adjustments because if get a lvl 20+ before middle of month 2, wont be so much competivity until month 4).

Perhaps even the grow rate for level 5-8 wont be so high from start(wont be 30-50 from start, but will be 10-20), but monsters will grow more over time(will be more monsters over time). I might change to 20% default grow rate instead of 10% per week.


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