Help, I'm Dumb

Official forum of the Wake of Gods mod to Heroes of Might and Magic III.
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Fnord
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Unread postby Fnord » 15 Aug 2006, 21:14

mr.hackcrag wrote:I think I might have found another bug. I moved my hero to an AI's undefended castle (empty garrison defense) and instead of capturing the castle, I had to fight a battle with an army that was an exact copy of mine. Even the hero was the same as mine and also had same stats. Any advice for this?
I've only seen this happen sometimes with castles that have been destroyed (by right-clicking on the buildings inside) but the AI can't destroy castles (only rebuild them) so I'm not sure what the cause would be.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 15 Aug 2006, 22:45

Speaking of AI, in all the time I've been playing, I don't think I've ever seen an AI visit a WoG map object. Do they ever use the WoG objects at all?

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Unread postby Fnord » 15 Aug 2006, 23:51

mr.hackcrag wrote:Speaking of AI, in all the time I've been playing, I don't think I've ever seen an AI visit a WoG map object. Do they ever use the WoG objects at all?
They can use (and will visit) some of them but others they can't use at all. I know they visit some of the objects.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 16 Aug 2006, 19:59

Another thing I've noticed is that when I attacked a neutral inferno town, every single inferno unit had fire shield at the start of combat. What's weird is that fire shield ability doesn't even apply to all inferno units, but they had it anyway. It couldn't have been a blessing or something, because as I mentioned before, I attacked a neutral town. I don't know what to make of that. :|

To make matters worse, my spell trait file has fireshield deal 45% of original damage and stack experience uses the spell version rather than the effreet version (whose fireshield ability remains unaffected by my spell trait.)

Another time, my phoenix's fire shield dealt more damage than the original attack! I have no idea how that happened! :| :| :|

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Unread postby djtc » 16 Aug 2006, 22:53

mr.hackcrag wrote:Another thing I've noticed is that when I attacked a neutral inferno town, every single inferno unit had fire shield at the start of combat. What's weird is that fire shield ability doesn't even apply to all inferno units, but they had it anyway. It couldn't have been a blessing or something, because as I mentioned before, I attacked a neutral town. I don't know what to make of that. :|
I noticed it also. I don't know which settings make that, but sometimes neutral towns are considered like neutral monster stacks, which get better and better within days. It's probably due to "Battle Extender", creatures can get even spells on them (like Fire Shield, Mirror Magic, etc), and as all creatures in the stack get it, that should explain why every creature in the town got the fire shield.

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Unread postby Fnord » 16 Aug 2006, 23:07

mr.hackcrag wrote:Another thing I've noticed is that when I attacked a neutral inferno town, every single inferno unit had fire shield at the start of combat. What's weird is that fire shield ability doesn't even apply to all inferno units, but they had it anyway. It couldn't have been a blessing or something, because as I mentioned before, I attacked a neutral town. I don't know what to make of that. :|

To make matters worse, my spell trait file has fireshield deal 45% of original damage and stack experience uses the spell version rather than the effreet version (whose fireshield ability remains unaffected by my spell trait.)

Another time, my phoenix's fire shield dealt more damage than the original attack! I have no idea how that happened! :| :| :|
This is probably the "Neutral Stack Experience" option. With this option, neutral creatures you fight will have stack experience ranks. If I recall correctly, at high ranks, Efreet or Efreet Sultans gain a Mass Fire Shield blessing for all friendly troops.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 18 Aug 2006, 03:52

I was wondering why there are two copies of of commander units in the map editor and trait files? Is there any difference between them? For example, it says "Succubus (1)" and "Succubus (2)" in the map editor.

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Unread postby Fnord » 18 Aug 2006, 19:12

mr.hackcrag wrote:I was wondering why there are two copies of of commander units in the map editor and trait files? Is there any difference between them? For example, it says "Succubus (1)" and "Succubus (2)" in the map editor.
It's necessary to have two copies in order to track their stats and skills properly when there are two heroes with the same Commander on the battlefield. I think number 1 is used for the attacker and number 2 for the defender.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 18 Aug 2006, 20:42

Do you also know what determines the damage of stack xp abilities like fireball and firewall. In my experience, it looks like fireball always does a fixed damage of 102, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure about firewall.

Is it possible to adjust damage for these abilities? It looks like you can only adjust % occurance in Crexpbon.

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Unread postby Fnord » 18 Aug 2006, 23:41

mr.hackcrag wrote:Do you also know what determines the damage of stack xp abilities like fireball and firewall. In my experience, it looks like fireball always does a fixed damage of 102, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure about firewall.

Is it possible to adjust damage for these abilities? It looks like you can only adjust % occurance in Crexpbon.
I don't know what exactly determines the damage (other than the level, i.e., Basic/Advanced/Expert). You can change the level by switching to another ability option of a lower level but I think the Power for the spell can't be changed in 3.58f and I don't know if this will be possible in the future or not.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 19 Aug 2006, 14:08

If it's even possible, how can I make creature specialists give bonuses to their creature each time they reach a level that is a multiple of their creature specialty. For example, a naga specialist would give a +1 att+def to nagas each time he reached a level that is a multiple of 6. (i.e. 6, 12, 18, etc.)

Also, what does "fight value" and "ai value" refer to in the creature trait files? I have an idea, but I don't know for sure.

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Unread postby Fnord » 20 Aug 2006, 02:04

mr.hackcrag wrote:If it's even possible, how can I make creature specialists give bonuses to their creature each time they reach a level that is a multiple of their creature specialty. For example, a naga specialist would give a +1 att+def to nagas each time he reached a level that is a multiple of 6. (i.e. 6, 12, 18, etc.)
Doesn't it work something like that already?
mr.hackcrag wrote: Also, what does "fight value" and "ai value" refer to in the creature trait files? I have an idea, but I don't know for sure.
I don't know for sure either but I think the fight value is what the AI uses to determine how dangerous a stack is when making decisions about attacking, fleeing etc. and I think the AI value is what it uses to determine if it should purchase the creatures or upgrade, etc. Most of this is just guess-work though.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 20 Aug 2006, 04:25

Fnord wrote:Doesn't it work something like that already?
That's what is says in the creature specialty description, but it doesn't actually do it this way. I wish it would though. It would be a lot less work for me. So can it be done this way?
I don't know for sure either but I think the fight value is what the AI uses to determine how dangerous a stack is when making decisions about attacking, fleeing etc. and I think the AI value is what it uses to determine if it should purchase the creatures or upgrade, etc. Most of this is just guess-work though.
That's exactly what I thought too, but I'm unsure of what the values actually represent. For example, higher tier creatures generally have the higest fight value, but in my experience playing on impossible difficultly, the AI usually targets my weaker creatures first. Does this mean that a higher fight value means lower priority of AI attacking that unit? And a lot of creatures have a 0 fight value. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean either.

I was wondering because I made the succubus a regular inferno unit on level 4, but the AI hardly ever attacks it when it would definitely be in their best interest to do so. Usually, they will just send one of their units to block it's ranged attack and that's it. This might be because I had acquired the succubus' stack exp. ability of fireshield, and they didn't want to take backlash damage, but I don't think that's it.

I was thinking that if I changed it's fight value, the AI issue would be fixed, but I don't know what I should assign it to. I was thinking of just mimicking another ranged units value like the arch mage or medusa.

Oh, and I almost forgot, has the fireshield ability in stack exp. been made more powerful? At expert level, it deals around 50% origianl damage. I think this is because my spell trait file has fireshield set to deal 45% damage at expert, but I haven't tested yet. Something strange I've occasionally noticed is that the fireshield sometimes does more damage than the original base damage of the attack, which leads me to think it's not my trait files.

And finally, I think I encountered a bug with the cards of prophecy script, but I can't confirm that it indeed was a bug. I had a level 16 hero enter combat and the cards of prophecy rearranged all my stats. But after the the battle, my stats reflected that of a level 1 hero. I think I had something like 3 attack, and 1 of everything else, despite the fact I was still on level 16. Like I said before, I can't confirm if it was actually the cards of prophecy that caused this because I didn't even notice my stats dropped until several turns later. So it could have been something else that caused it... Anyway, just thought I mention it. :)

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Unread postby Fnord » 20 Aug 2006, 08:11

mr.hackcrag wrote:
Fnord wrote:Doesn't it work something like that already?
That's what is says in the creature specialty description, but it doesn't actually do it this way. I wish it would though. It would be a lot less work for me. So can it be done this way?
I'm not too sure. I really haven't done much with hero specialties. In theory you could write a script to set anything you like in combat (I guess the Hero Specialty Boost does that) but it would require all the usual combat stuff, like looping through all stacks to find the one you want and so forth. I would suggest checking the HSB script if you're considering doing something like that.

So how does the standard naga specialty work now exactly?

mr.hackcrag wrote:
Fnord wrote: I don't know for sure either but I think the fight value is what the AI uses to determine how dangerous a stack is when making decisions about attacking, fleeing etc. and I think the AI value is what it uses to determine if it should purchase the creatures or upgrade, etc. Most of this is just guess-work though.
That's exactly what I thought too, but I'm unsure of what the values actually represent. For example, higher tier creatures generally have the higest fight value, but in my experience playing on impossible difficultly, the AI usually targets my weaker creatures first. Does this mean that a higher fight value means lower priority of AI attacking that unit? And a lot of creatures have a 0 fight value. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean either.

I was wondering because I made the succubus a regular inferno unit on level 4, but the AI hardly ever attacks it when it would definitely be in their best interest to do so. Usually, they will just send one of their units to block it's ranged attack and that's it. This might be because I had acquired the succubus' stack exp. ability of fireshield, and they didn't want to take backlash damage, but I don't think that's it.

I was thinking that if I changed it's fight value, the AI issue would be fixed, but I don't know what I should assign it to. I was thinking of just mimicking another ranged units value like the arch mage or medusa.
Right...I don't know either but your guess sounds as good as any other. I don't know if anyone knows the answer to this question (other than the game programmers themselves) so you'll likely have to experiment.
mr.hackcrag wrote: Oh, and I almost forgot, has the fireshield ability in stack exp. been made more powerful? At expert level, it deals around 50% origianl damage. I think this is because my spell trait file has fireshield set to deal 45% damage at expert, but I haven't tested yet. Something strange I've occasionally noticed is that the fireshield sometimes does more damage than the original base damage of the attack, which leads me to think it's not my trait files.
I don't think its deliberately been made more powerful. The stack XP one does use the spell rather than the actual efreet abilility though so I imagine it would use your sptraits file. I don't know why it would do more damage than the attack.
mr.hackcrag wrote: And finally, I think I encountered a bug with the cards of prophecy script, but I can't confirm that it indeed was a bug. I had a level 16 hero enter combat and the cards of prophecy rearranged all my stats. But after the the battle, my stats reflected that of a level 1 hero. I think I had something like 3 attack, and 1 of everything else, despite the fact I was still on level 16. Like I said before, I can't confirm if it was actually the cards of prophecy that caused this because I didn't even notice my stats dropped until several turns later. So it could have been something else that caused it... Anyway, just thought I mention it. :)
Was this with the beta script updates or the standard 3.58f scripts?

If the standard, it may have been fixed already. If it was with the beta, keep a lookout for it occurring again and then please keep a save and let me know and see if you can duplicate the effect too.
- Fnord

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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 20 Aug 2006, 15:20

Fnord wrote:So how does the standard naga specialty work now exactly?
It's not only the naga specialty, but all creature specialties. Though I don't know the exact formula, I do know that a creature specialist will cap the bonus after it has recieved +2 attack and defense, and from that point on, the bonus will progress at a much slower pace. Usually at around level 16-18, most creature specialist will have +3 attack and defense, and around level 22-24, they will have +4 attack and +3 defense.

I wanted to make creature specialist give their bonus in the way I mentioned before to balance them between skill and magic specialists. Otherwise, there isn't much incentive to choose them in comparison.

For example, someone specializing in offense or defense skill will give a bonus to all their creatures rather than just one, and on top of that, the additional bonus they recieve per level up is superior to the +3 attack and defense that a creature specialist would receive. Or a magic specialist in prayer, stoneskin, or chain lightning can also effect all troops, and the bonus to these spells is also much better than than a measly +3 att&def to one single unit.

In case you're curious about how magic specialist receive their bonus, the formula goes:

Spell specialty bonus = (Hero level/Creature Level)*3%.(of base damage)

As for effect spell specialists like blood lust for example, the bonus goes as follows, and depends on creature level, rather than hero level:

Level 1&2= +3 bonus
Level 3&4= +2 bonus
Level 5&6+ +1 bonus

The credit to these formulas goes to "Wub."

I've tested it out, and it appears to be accurate. The only strange thing I found was that spells that have area of effects like inferno or meteor shower will not receive the bonus if the spell actually hits more than one unit. If it hits only one unit however, it will receive the bonus.
Was this with the beta script updates or the standard 3.58f scripts?

If the standard, it may have been fixed already. If it was with the beta, keep a lookout for it occurring again and then please keep a save and let me know and see if you can duplicate the effect too.
This was with the beta scripts. I'll try to keep an eye on it to see if it happens again, and get a save of it.


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