To Bytebandit about Chaser map

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Salamandre
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To Bytebandit about Chaser map

Unread postby Salamandre » 13 May 2006, 17:41

Hello All


I joined wog map archive at yahoo groups. I remember someone said long time ago that Chaser will be translated in english. This map looks awesome but as it is , I cant play it. Can anyone confirm it was translated or when it will be done, if it will?

Thank you

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Re: To Bytebandit about Chaser map

Unread postby Pol » 13 May 2006, 19:20

Yes.

I put it into the second archive, sorry for the confusion :embarrased:
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Unread postby Salamandre » 15 May 2006, 01:23

Thank you very much. I tried it at 100% but...damnt, seems impossible to work out. The forum at gamexxxx is in chinese? Any tips how to play this map? It is awesome!

I am stuck at Edric, I have 3 attack and 6 defence, he is about 40 both. So I went exploring, God is unbeatable, huge stacks level 7 everywhere, no ressurect, blind, town portal yet.

Headache.

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Unread postby Salamandre » 17 May 2006, 07:56

Well; this map is a jewel for the scripts etc. But as playability it is far from good. It wasnt tested, thus finished. There is a bug at 0.29, we are supposed to pass but some tree was misplaced(I checked and no event related to this location). Thus, adventure cant be continued. After 16 hours game, I have to edit the map and restart.

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Unread postby Pol » 17 May 2006, 08:23

I didn't played it, so I cannot offer helping hand, sorry.

The original chinese version is better (because higher), but unfortunately here is no translation provided - However if you are going to repair this map, then (please, please ;) ) upload it too, best next to the original one. Many Thanks. It will be well appreciated - I promise :D

WBR,
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Unread postby Salamandre » 17 May 2006, 12:36

I cant repair it. Everything, monsters growth, AI heroes, is scripted. All I can do is add a couple of towns in non scripted locations and heavily lower the monsters on the map. The author is maybe genious at scripting but he is masochist at playability. How am I supposed to defeat 4000 supreme archangels with my 20? And I am old veteran.


And he NEVER finished or tested it, the passage at 0.29.0 is blocked by mistake. Thus, wde cant finish it, because the map is kind of "i finish a zone wich send me to the next". There is a heavily scripted linear path. Not bad as idea, but bad when is it blocked;

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 18 May 2006, 05:33

Perhaps you can contact the author and let him/her know what you have come acrossed in the map, and ask if you can make some necessary changes to make it even more playable. It surely can't hurt to ask. :-)

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Unread postby Salamandre » 19 May 2006, 22:41

I already e-mailed him twice, still no answer.


This map is awesome, it has same scripts as THUNK, I wonder which was first. It is the first map I could beat 7x9999 azure dragons! I played at 70% and it is doable. I tried 200% and it is nightmare. Every (!) monster or Hero you will fight will have (automated)antimagic, haste casted every turn, fire shield and ridiculous stats. I raise a statue to the one who beats this map on 200%.

I had to spend an equivalent time on playing as looking in ERM scripts. Because it is not likely you can find where to go. Some events are hard puzzle. Still the final battle is behind a seerhut which asks you 500x4 of each powerfull dragon to pass. There is no such event which gives you those dragons, but only 1 town where you can recruite them. I had about 300 of each and had to wait 12 months or more to go. So I gave up and replayed when changing the request at 300 of each.


I will upload a decent version of Chaser, where I added 3 castles for human. If you want to suffer badly you can still try the original.

Try this map! This chinese chick:) is a genious.

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Unread postby Salamandre » 21 May 2006, 00:27

last battle from Chaser, 130 difficulty. 170% is impossible, due to various imunities. There is a battle needed to pass through where you face 5000 chaos hydras. At 170% they have fire shield (every turn), 16 speed(imunity slow) and acid. No way...



http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0014lx.jpg


Various combinations for archangels help a lot

http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aptarch1uw.jpg

and their stats are not bad, a bit slow on speed :devil:


http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... rch5qe.jpg

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 21 May 2006, 05:34

Well, since you can't contact the author appropriately, I see no reason why you can't alter the map the way you see fit. It seems you have tried every effort to contact the mapmaker and you have'nt gotten the proper response either way.
Be sure that if/when you do alter the map that the original author still has their name attached as the original writer of the map but that the newer changes were made by you. This is out of pure respect to the original mapmaker. Also, assign the next number of the map. Say if the map version is "Chaser 1.1", let's say, then your assigned number would appear as "Chaser 1.1(1)" And any other subsequent changes by you would be "Chaser 1.1(2)" and so on. I think this would eliminate any confusion as to what version is available.

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Unread postby Salamandre » 23 May 2006, 02:05

Well, he finally answered, just to say that "many" chinese won the game on 200%

he gave me a link http://wakeofgods.com/viewthread.php?ti ... a=page%3D1

to help. And, in fact, many chinese won the game but with "chinese" tactics;)


Ghosts.... Basically, all you have to do is do spend 15 hours to fight the same monster who spawn, to gather same 300kx7 ghosts.

No thanks:)

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 23 May 2006, 04:00

Unfortunately, I have'nt had the chance to play this quality map, but everything I hear about it sounds great. It's very popular in China and the East, and it's good to see that it's catching on worldwide.

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Unread postby Salamandre » 23 May 2006, 21:17

I woudnt say it is exceptional. Unless the chinese version has a background story in, which english has not. It is rich in scripts, but they are absolutely the same that THUNK uses. There is no story, just slaying for hours bilions of level 8. To give an example, I was able to slay 7X9999 azure dragons without loss, using archangels(when using ghosts, each stack was able to kill 9999 azure in ONE!! blow, I let you imagine how challenging was the game after). Everything is too much, except keeping diversity.

And, last game, I tried the ghosts path, got bilions of them by no time and killed the game. To not forget the "bugs" headache you get when using more than 32K creatures in a stack. They stay most of game at negative experience, thus not beeing able to use the powerfull scripts related to experience.


if the chinese version has a background story rich and incorporated, then I am wrong.Still, the game gives little challenge once you understood where to go first to become invincible. And it took me 3 games to understand this.

Hat of for the scripts, much less for playability.

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Unread postby Fnord » 23 May 2006, 23:31

Salamandre wrote:This map is awesome, it has same scripts as THUNK, I wonder which was first.
The same as THUNK? Are you sure of that?

I haven't played Chaser but I just downloaded it to check the scripts (in the timed events) and I didn't recognize any taken specifically from THUNK.

What I see from looking through them are a mix of custom-scripting (or at least, unfamiliar scripting) and a selection of standard WoGify scripts (modified in some cases I think) written by various members of the WoG Team as well as enabling some of the hard-coded WoG options.

By comparison, THUNK was almost completely custom-scripted by me (mostly following Tim Duncan's requests for what he wanted) but does include a few standard hard-coded WoG options as well (such as Stack Experience). I think the only non-custom scripts in THUNK are some interface improvement WoGify scripts (e.g., Buy All Button, Enhanced Dwelling Information) that were written by me anyway.

When making maps, I generally prefer to use all of my own scripting material if possible. :D
- Fnord

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Unread postby Salamandre » 24 May 2006, 04:05

Chaser is an invincible hero, as THUNK was. Any attempt to attack him before you activate some scripts will lead to suicide, as in THUNK.


In Chaser you play the map as you want, till the point where you need to release Chaser hero, exactly as in THUNK we did.


In Chaser you need to find 3 new artefacts, which combined and activated will take out the invincibility of the hero, as in THUNK.


In Chaser at some time, ONE creature will join you and you need to keep it for a specific quest, as in THUNK (the fire effret)


I am not strong at ERM scripts but it seems to me that the two maps are like sisters.



But of course Fnord, yours was best :D


because it hadnt ghosts

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 24 May 2006, 04:51

I think the reason for popularity of Chaser is the immense number of creaures to fight in the game. It's possible with a little script polishing it could rank with the more incredible maps for WoG.

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Unread postby Fnord » 24 May 2006, 06:37

Salamandre wrote:Chaser is an invincible hero, as THUNK was. Any attempt to attack him before you activate some scripts will lead to suicide, as in THUNK.

In Chaser you play the map as you want, till the point where you need to release Chaser hero, exactly as in THUNK we did.

In Chaser you need to find 3 new artefacts, which combined and activated will take out the invincibility of the hero, as in THUNK.

In Chaser at some time, ONE creature will join you and you need to keep it for a specific quest, as in THUNK (the fire effret)

I am not strong at ERM scripts but it seems to me that the two maps are like sisters.
Okay, thanks for the details. I guess these are all a lot more apparent when playing. I don't know if any of the THUNK-specific code was copied directly (I didn't notice anything obvious from my scan but it's hard to say) but it sounds mostly like some of the ideas were copied, whether or not the scripts were. Not that this is a bad thing if it works.
Salamandre wrote: But of course Fnord, yours was best :D
Thanks. B-) (Even if most of the ideas and design were the other Tim's) :wave:
Salamandre wrote:because it hadnt ghosts
:jester:
- Fnord

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Unread postby Salamandre » 24 May 2006, 12:50

The last detail, victory conditions: despite the titles in both maps , after defeating the "invincible" you have to kill a last "hero" to win the map.(Mok Choi and Boss)

Definately the chinese liked THUNK. Those are more than a coincidence.

After reading the chinese forums it appears clearly that CHASER was designed for a massive ghost win ( why else would he put 2 scripts about spawning 600 archers again every time you defeat them).

And that killed the map, ghosts beeing the most unbalanced script in both HoMM2 and WoG.


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