A few newbie questions

Official forum of the Wake of Gods mod to Heroes of Might and Magic III.

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Salamandre
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Postby Salamandre » May 27 2010, 15:38

It is always risky to wogify SOD custom maps. Mostly because WoG will replace some artefacts and objects, and those may have a plot purpose, their replacement making the map unwinable. Anyway, in WoG if you are looking for overpowered wins, just enable the "emerald tower" in WoG options. It will place that object on the map, and visiting it will give you extra abilities for your creatures. Only with the Emerald Tower one can achieve huge stats. Also the dungeon of the dragonmaster is a nice object, it will replace the Utopias and will give you an increased challenge (up to 12 darkness dragons, for a maximum of 8 relics).

There are many options in WoG, so you should be able to find the ones you like. Several scripts are in conflict, so not any selection will run smoothly. But in general it is stable.

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Postby Ojcar » May 27 2010, 16:22

Salamandre wrote:It is always risky to wogify SOD custom maps. Mostly because WoG will replace some artefacts and objects, and those may have a plot purpose, their replacement making the map unwinable. Anyway, in WoG if you are looking for overpowered wins, just enable the "emerald tower" in WoG options. It will place that object on the map, and visiting it will give you extra abilities for your creatures. Only with the Emerald Tower one can achieve huge stats. Also the dungeon of the dragonmaster is a nice object, it will replace the Utopias and will give you an increased challenge (up to 12 darkness dragons, for a maximum of 8 relics).

There are many options in WoG, so you should be able to find the ones you like. Several scripts are in conflict, so not any selection will run smoothly. But in general it is stable.


i have those 2 objects deactivated. The dungeon of the dragonmaster is easy to beat an gives just too much of valuable artifacts. When you have dragpn utopias , in my case, it becomes guarded by level 8-10 dragons, and it increases with time, so to say, if you get to enter a dragon utopia on month 10, you will have to fight 4000-5000 level 8-10 dragons... and mostly, 3000 of them will be faerie dragons that will cast area effect spells... :S it´s creepy but fun at the same time.

Although, by that month, it´s probable you will be able to beat them without any of the "cheap tricks" mentioned. Berserk there will be nullified by defect as enemy stacks are around your units.

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Postby Teaboar » May 29 2010, 19:26

It finally occured to me why I kept losing all this time. I never used the emerald towers while the enemy did. I would have much larger armies and still end up losing and I didn't relize they had buffed their units with the towers. Needless to say I started to use them myself and won the first impossible game (technically the save game gut bugged before I could finish it, but I would've won it soon after anyway). I must say I wish they would make the resource price of upgrading units go up after every use, as I ended up with darkness dragons that had around 40k hp and 15k dmg each (upgraded using three towers over a few months).

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Postby Ojcar » May 29 2010, 20:11

No wonder why i have such emeral tower deactivated, 40k hp dragons, lol. not for me as for me it´s "cheesy" "lame", etc etc :devil:.

I started played that map (without any of the cheap things mentioned here) and more or less at around month five i first encountered one of these high in skill points heros 60at-60def; i saw he only had around 30-35 high level troops (big dragons), and i fought him me having 40at-40def and having a **** pyrrhic victory, so i loaded the save game and stayed on my castles protecting them as he thinks he can´t defeat me. lol. It´s a way to survive while they give you time to improve your skill points. :devil:

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Postby Teaboar » May 29 2010, 20:45

Ojcar wrote:No wonder why i have such emeral tower deactivated, 40k hp dragons, lol. not for me as for me it´s "cheesy" "lame", etc etc :devil:.

I started played that map (without any of the cheap things mentioned here) and more or less at around month five i first encountered one of these high in skill points heros 60at-60def; i saw he only had around 30-35 high level troops (big dragons), and i fought him me having 40at-40def and having a **** pyrrhic victory, so i loaded the save game and stayed on my castles protecting them as he thinks he can´t defeat me. lol. It´s a way to survive while they give you time to improve your skill points. :devil:


Thank you for the tip. And I absolutely agree, the emerald towers are ridiculously imbalanced. :D I should probably try deactivating them for the next game.

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Postby Ojcar » May 29 2010, 20:50

Ah, i used the tower castle, without conquering one castle that had the grail inside, as it reveals the entire map and that´s not fun at all.

What is critical in some hard maps is to know when to retreat no matter if you lose a lot of castles, mines, dwellings, etc. Most times when that non-defeatable hero has conquered all your things, he leaves and you can reconquer all... as easily as he did. Giving you time again to improve your main hero. This tactic is usable when you openly see he goes for you because he calculated he´s gonna win the battle, or you just use visions and see you can´t win. My case explained in my previous post was one case in wich i wasn´t completely sure if i could win inside the castle without it being pyrrhic. I bet to be inside and he left...

Use only you main hero to get to the castles again and new recruited ones to get the mines and dwellings. Dismiss useless ones once done.

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Postby Salamandre » May 30 2010, 6:23

There are no unbalanced WoG options but only misunderstandings on how to use them and where. WoG is not only a mod, but more a tool for those who looked deeply inside.

For example the emerald towers, the warfare skill, the double artefact, are engines to put on a car within A F1 race, not for driving in a city. What I mean by that is that there are out there some custom maps which use properly the warfare and emerald towers, because the AI is scripted to follow your progression and answer adequately.

Chaser, Time of Prophecy, The dragon Slaughter, Empire III. A few names. They only prove how far the customization can go and how deep the players satisfaction can be fulfilled. For the first time WoG offers what we can really call Epic battles. Anyone played with Karmic battles enabled? Try it!

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Postby Ojcar » May 30 2010, 6:54

Im not a deep follower of things like that so ill undoubtly fail at it. Im just more like a more superficial HHMIII maps consumer; not so deep in the fan base to consider that.

Personally, i dont think there are misunderstandings, just personal needs. Relativity of enjoyment is the ultimate truth to be considered.

I can tell you that i play all maps, ALL maps, with the same options, lol. Except maps wich are not wogifiable, i dont like them haha. but, that´s my way.

for me the true essence of WOG it´s it´s capacity to be what it is: a very open environment able to please many kinds of different players.

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Postby obelisk v2.0 » May 30 2010, 11:10

Salamandre wrote:Anyone played with Karmic battles enabled? Try it!


Ahh, yes, Karmica battles are endless fun! The only thing I sometimes wish for is to have Neutral Unit Bonuses also affect the Karmic battle creatures. That is generally my wish mid-game, because in the beginning I already tend to have a slightly difficult time dealing with the Karmic creatures, and in the end-game period, having 6 or 7 stacks of a thousand Azure Dragons, each with over 4k health would be a bit mad... :) Mid-game though, it would be perfect!

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Postby Ojcar » May 30 2010, 14:44

obelisk v2.0 wrote:
Salamandre wrote:Anyone played with Karmic battles enabled? Try it!


Ahh, yes, Karmica battles are endless fun! The only thing I sometimes wish for is to have Neutral Unit Bonuses also affect the Karmic battle creatures. That is generally my wish mid-game, because in the beginning I already tend to have a slightly difficult time dealing with the Karmic creatures, and in the end-game period, having 6 or 7 stacks of a thousand Azure Dragons, each with over 4k health would be a bit mad... :) Mid-game though, it would be perfect!


how does karmic battles work?, i think i haven´t tested that.

How the hell do you get 7000 azure dragons?¿ :|

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Postby Teaboar » May 30 2010, 18:59

I relize this isn't the correct forum section to ask this, but I figured you guys probably have the answer, so here it goes. I'm currently working on a new map, and the problem is that I can't figure out how to ban a spell from my map. When I go to the spell tab in map specifications all the spells are checked, but they are also grayed out, and I can't seem to un-check any of them. So what am I doing wrong? Also, I was wondering how I make the subterranean gates work? Because unlike many other objects on the map, the gates in question have no editable properties, so how then can I choose which gate on the surface leads to a specific gate underground?

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » May 30 2010, 21:22

Teaboar wrote:I relize this isn't the correct forum section to ask this, but I figured you guys probably have the answer, so here it goes. I'm currently working on a new map, and the problem is that I can't figure out how to ban a spell from my map. When I go to the spell tab in map specifications all the spells are checked, but they are also grayed out, and I can't seem to un-check any of them. So what am I doing wrong? Also, I was wondering how I make the subterranean gates work? Because unlike many other objects on the map, the gates in question have no editable properties, so how then can I choose which gate on the surface leads to a specific gate underground?


Make certain that you have the map set up for the later expansions. If the map specifications says it is a "Restoration of Erathia" map, then you cannot ban spells, as that wasn't possible until the expansions (I forget if AB allowed spell banning, but SoD definitely did and WoG definitely does)
Matthew Charlap -353 HoMM map reviews and counting...

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Postby Teaboar » May 30 2010, 21:46

Thank you, that fixed it. What about the subterranean gates? Also, if I ban a spell, does that simply mean that it can't appear in any players mage guild, or does it make it impossible to use the spell in question? I was just wondering if it would be possible to ban a spell, but then have a scholar teach it instead?

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Postby Salamandre » May 30 2010, 22:24

a subterranean gate will always send to the closest one on the other side. A banned spell must be set manually on a scholar, as it will never appear otherwise.

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Postby Teaboar » May 31 2010, 8:28

Salamandre wrote:a subterranean gate will always send to the closest one on the other side. A banned spell must be set manually on a scholar, as it will never appear otherwise.


Thank you for clearing that up. I spent hours working on the map yesterday (didn't even have time to play), and it's not even halfway done. I really wish I'll be able to finish it, because so far I think it looks pretty good.

EDIT2: nvm, figured this one out. :)

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Postby obelisk v2.0 » May 31 2010, 22:22

Ojcar wrote:
obelisk v2.0 wrote:
Salamandre wrote:Anyone played with Karmic battles enabled? Try it!


Ahh, yes, Karmica battles are endless fun! The only thing I sometimes wish for is to have Neutral Unit Bonuses also affect the Karmic battle creatures. That is generally my wish mid-game, because in the beginning I already tend to have a slightly difficult time dealing with the Karmic creatures, and in the end-game period, having 6 or 7 stacks of a thousand Azure Dragons, each with over 4k health would be a bit mad... :) Mid-game though, it would be perfect!


how does karmic battles work?, i think i haven´t tested that.

How the hell do you get 7000 azure dragons?¿ :|


7000 azure dragons in my own army would be just insane, but having them as Karmic monsters is easy. Basicall, Karmic Battles work like this: every time a hero fights neutral monsters, some "friends" show up to help those monsters (only stacks that are out in the open on the adventure map, not in dwellings or towns). The number and strength of said friends increases, as that particular hero fights more Karmic battles. For your first Karmic battle you will get six or seven stacks of 2 level 1 creatures each, and then, with every battle the number grows. Thousand-large stacks, therefore, suggest a very long time kicking neutral butt. Most likely, over a year of game time. And by then the hero who has that kind of Karmic opponents can kill a Karmic stack with a single blow from any of his own stacks.

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Postby Salamandre » May 31 2010, 23:00

Indeed, that's how your hero ends after 10 months of karmic battles::jester:
Image
Last edited by Salamandre on Jun 1 2010, 6:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ojcar » May 31 2010, 23:54

and Salamandre showing again another exaggerated thing.

Sounds incoherent to have that level and still not all skills at 99.

Maybe i´ll try that thing one day, but doesn´t seems particularly interesting, looks more like another "lame cheesy" thing to put to the side if you want to enjoy the game without god status.

In Kurdagako´s apocalipse the tactic i told Teaboard "to flee when you can´t win", has worked as intended. Though, in month 8 and i can´t win some neutral conflux town with 200000 troops of all levels :tired:, but is not needed to win the game. Those kind of neutral towns seems to be the more interesting challenge at this time.

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Postby Salamandre » Jun 1 2010, 6:52

Not much sense of humor, are you?

I was kidding, it was a bug where I got unlimited leveling and had to shut the game after taking pic.

Anyway, this is WoG forum and everyone is talking about regular Heroes maps. I am talking about true WoG maps where your "overkill", "god", "cheesy" have no sense because the challenge is other. If you think having 1 million skeletons is cheesy then play that map and you will see what kind of dragons they have to face and survive. WoG is an open field.

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Postby Ojcar » Jun 1 2010, 15:25

I didn´t found that pic particularly funny. I never had that bug.


Regular heroes maps are my favs. I tend to dislike true Wog maps, as sometimes the way they are played (it´s changed gameplay) is just weird or uninteresting to me (talk about stargate map made by you or 300...), and im a great fan of stargate!. I wogify all maps if they don´t have erm script conflicts. If it can´t be wogifyed... to thrash can. I used to play years ago non-wogifiable maps but they weren´t as fun as wogified ones. As you said, what i like about wog is the possibility to enhance traditional Heroes 3.

Maybe you can give me a list of those maps you talk about and over time i´ll try some of them, or at least tell me some wich you particularly enjoyed, not made by you. (tell me where to download them also).


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