WoG chinese-style editor patch

[Salamandre]

@Darknessfood: if you call this a fight you never saw a real one. Does my poor english sound aggressive? Did not mean it. I am only asking for detailed data about the crash, because if BB is right, then it will be very sad news for WoG.

@BB: I already submitted your issue to Grayface and we will try to see what is wrong on your version. It will be hard as we don't have much detailed data from you, as when the blackout occurs, what is the message, what you did before, which object you used and such. So far you are the only one getting crashes with this, but it is still a serious issue and needs working on without doubt. What would really help would be to have your wogcrashlog.txt.

Usually if anything is wrong, the editor refuses to start but in your case it crashes after 15 minutes, strange. I mean, how can such old tool to overload your memory? A first time issue.

[ByteBandit]

I have nothing to give you because it's a mega crash. One I have never experienced even when I tested WoG 3.57 in its early days. It's weird, I agree. But if it can happen to me, it could happen to anyone who wants to try and use it. Many others than me will experience the same problem. That's what I'm trying to point out to you as best as I can. It's better to get the problem fixed in its infancy then to start on a newer project, I would think. It's a patch that has potential rather than being a run of the mill, ho hum add on.

Added: If you and GF can find what you think is a fool proof solution with this patch, I will test it again and give you the results. And I will try to send you a doc if I can. And, yeah, it may be an object somewhere that isn't located somewhere properly. Or something where the file name may be off a letter or a number somewhere. It probably just needs to be looked over with a fine toothed comb. I can only assume there are a lot of separate ftles for the animated sprites alone.

[Salamandre]

Ok, just a few questions to help me figure it:

1) Did you used roman objects too or only chinese?
2) Did you use too new trees when painting?
3) Did the blackout occurs when doing an action or out from nothing?
4) Could you open the task bar when it crashed or all was dead?
5) Did you saved at some point?
6) Did you place any of the new derelict ships?
7) Are you running Vista?

[ByteBandit]

1) Did you used roman objects too or only chinese?
ANSWER: I believe I used both.
2) Did you use too new trees when painting?
ANSWER: Yes. I even used the H2 trees and used the decorating button(the green tree), where many of your new objects appeared.
3) Did the blackout occurs when doing an action or out from nothing?
ANSWER: I was working on the map when the crash happened. After I start the computer, the map is gone.
4) Could you open the task bar when it crashed or all was dead?
ANSWER: Nothing. The computer completely shut off.
5) Did you saved at some point?
ANSWER: No. Never felt like I had enough time to save, really.I mean, I was just starting and looking at everything, time went by too quickly it seemed to me.
6) Did you place any of the new derelict ships?
ANSWER:A few times yes. A few times no.
7) Are you running Vista?
ANSWER: Windows 98

Hope it helps you in some way.

[Salamandre]

OK, so far I believe your problem is coming from using the obstacle tool. I will speak to Grayface. The obstacle tool is not meant to use the new subtypes. It chooses randomly from old subtypes and when storing a new data can't hold it. I also got crashes from it in the past when I just wanted to do fast maps for testing an action or another. And before the latest patch.

[ByteBandit]

Some H2 trees and some rock type mountains you provide appear in the obstacle button, I know that for sure. No buildings or anything. Would be nice if some of your stuff appeared in the obstacle button to be sure but not necessary. I also placed dirt objects on various terrains as well as other terrain objects on other various terrains, but I don't see that as being an issue or if it is, it needs correcting so that you can put any object on any terrain.
There was no pattern of decorating to the deadly crashes other than the time spent in the map editor. All short and black in the end. In other words, I tried staying away from duplicating a previous attempt on a map.

[ByteBandit]

I decided to reinstall the Chinese/Roman patch again. Along with the 3.3 WoG Map Editor. Here are the latest results and you may, or may not be pleased, but probably more pleased:

I did not do a clean install as you suggested.
I decided to continue on a small map for decorative reasons only. (Usually I work on XL maps only. That has not been tested this time. But will be.)
I did not use the Obstacle button...NO CRASHES!
I got as far as a half an hour which is a record, so the Obstacle button is the culprit.....so far. At least a main culprit. I have been placing decorative trees and such by hand which is tedious to say the least.
The WoGlog showed a clean install of the patch.
And all I did was override the 3.1 WoG Editor Patch, so really, a clean install is not really necessary from what I see so far from both the patch and the 3.3 That's good news also!
Now......
Hopefully, if you are willing to work with Grayface on the matter of utilizing the obstacle button with or without some of the decorative objects, then the patch would be complete as far as I can see.
Or...
Make it real clear on instructions the limitations of the Editor as it coexists with this patch.
I saved the Objects text from 3.1 and used that to correct the issues I've been reading about with creatures showing a "0" That seems to be okay, I guess as the names of the creatures show up on my maps.
So, the analysis at the end. I was wrong about the lod files not handling the amount of def files. I never knew you could not use the obstacle button. Perhaps the issue can be resloved somehow.
I will continue testing the patch, i.e. XL Maps, the advanced Properties feature, and other brainless activities to insure this patch is stupid proof. And that's what we all want anyway, right?
Oh. I have a saved map right now with the new objects. It's not a map to play of course. And I checked all logs involved, and nothing has been showing up as "bad."
I will be happy with what I have, so far, if I can get past an hour or two of mapmaking with the patch. Again, I would like to see the obstacle button being able to be used with or without your trees, rocks, bushes and stuff like that.

ADDED: I've added every ZOBJCT file you have and still "nothing" on Level 8 Crreatures.
And with future projects? No cars or guns please. Keep the mythology theme intact for us hardcore mythology fans. Desert Stuff? Yeah. Native American Indian stuff would be cool too. Tipis would make great Gate tents! Early English Empire stuff. Aztec, Mayan and Incas too.

There you go, Salamandre.

[ByteBandit]

Okay. A little over a half hour into painting, and another crash. No need to send you anything. All the logs looked good before I deleted my H3 folder and replaced it with my old one.
Somethings wrong with the entire package somewhere. It's more than the obstacle button, now I'm sure of it. I'm not sure what the problem is. I'm only a mapmaker, not a programmer. I'm done with it. I deleted the entire thing. No use banging my head against a wall for something that does'nt work. Sorry. I liked the thing.
I may use it when I know I'm 100 per cent sure it works. By reading posts and such. What can I say?

[ByteBandit]

Now I'm thinking everything must be okay with your work. I now believe it's my computer. I can't even make maps of any kind anymore. My laptop is 5 years old and now it's showing it''s age. Even 3.1 crashes. And it never did before. But at least I can play maps for a while. I may even have a virus somewhere too. Who knows.

[Salamandre]

I tested yesterday night the obstacle tool and I painted a whole XL map using it, without a problem...I don't know what to say.

As you said, you used in the past GF 2.1 advanced properties without any problem for Sandro campaign, while several people reported the patch killing their maps. I guess it is only matter of a few illegal operations, once you get them, other times you are just lucky.

Thanks for your feedback, as least it shows that everything must be tested carefully and on all systems. Still a crash without an error message is hard to understand and fix. I will start a map and look at memory usage of the editor when using the new objects and compare with a regular map. I noticed an increase of the CPU usage when using the new animated objects, but not big, considering that almost anyone is using 2GO memory. It goes up to 60000Ko while regular stops to 45000 Ko. Thats for a XL map filled with those only objects.

In "300" map I used 222 new objects and I broke the limit of how many creatures you can bring in game using !!UN:I command (they did not appear anymore). Later I bypassed this limit by changing their summon locations until it worked. Means we can broke those limits by fine tunning. Still only one accessing the source code would really know if there are limits and how to overcome them.

[ByteBandit]

I have 1.5G CPU Speed. and 224MB in total physical memory. And your right, My computer sounds like a jet engine when I start running the stuff in your patch. My laptop around the processor gets too hot to the touch after a short time, covering the entire right side of the laptop, which is probably why it shuts down. And the CPU seems to run faster using the Map Editor than it does for a game. Which is something I can't figure out. Should be the other way around, you woulld think. Do you know of any way I can slow the jets other than getting a new laptop? Is there some internal program I can switch of or on that I don't know about?

[Salamandre]

I have 1240 MB out from 2000 MB free physical memory after running all necessary Windows/Kaspersky tasks. A blackout is occurring when the available memory can't hold the applications, thus no editor error message.

Anyway this is a very old game and the animated objects are also from old games, so if the editor goes up to 60MB it is still very low (My antivirus eats 200MB constantly). I don't know what to advice you, I am quite a noob at computers. Maybe buy 2GO memory? It is cheap nowadays.

**Edit: I took a look in CPU usage and it goes up to 21MB with the biggest framed objects on (20 frames each->they are going to be in next version of the patch). They eat 1 additional MB from regular editor, so it is really not important. Take a look in real time:


FireFox eats 100-150 MB at launch so if you run the editor then browse online you will lose your 224 MB in no time with both activated.

Can you tell me what you changed in the ZEOBJTS for the 8th level monsters, so I don't have to redo it after each addition? (that file on yahoo can't stay long time, as I am improving the objects layout and I will release a second version, so it will be obsolete).

[ByteBandit]

The file on Yahoo is your file from the Roman patch I believe. I extracted it from the RaR and placed it in Yahoo because when I used it, it shows all creatures once the map editor is used. If you haven't already, you should download it, try it, and go from there. Perhaps with each upgrade you do you should include a ZEOBJCT text file to prevent people from wondering why they get "nothing." Just a suggestion.

As far as the computer thing goes, I know I need a newer one. But money is real tight for me right now. And my laptop is integrated, which means I can't upgrade it. Sucks.

[Salamandre]

The ZEOBJTS from roman patch does not have the codes for the chinese objects.

**I found the maximum CPU usage for the editor: 70MB. In fact, it is not due to the placed objects but when player scrolls the editor and search. Once you scrolled all the terrains it stays at 70MB and does not increase anymore. Clean WoG takes 50 MB. Thats a 20 MB increase for 600 new objects.

[ByteBandit]

Well, the bottom line for me is I can't use the patch for one reason or another. I wish I could. I have new map ideas. For now I will see what I can do to just get the original 3.1 to work and I have'nt tried my H4 map Editor either for a long time. Along with the H4 Util. Hopefully they won't crash. Start from the bottom and work my way up to see what the problem could be.

[Salamandre]

It seems more that the bottom line is that your system/hardware has some problems, not the patch. I would prefer from the beginning that at least we could try to figure whats wrong together and not posting from the start that the patch is not worth the install as you did. I mean, everyone can experience errors, as this is mostly no-mans land, but quickly denying the work is somehow sad. Improving WoG graphics is quite hard today, as every addition has to use its own ZEOBJTS and they are not cumulative. GF 3.3 fixes only Phantom patch and needs to be refreshed for each upcoming new objects. That means people have to work together to get everything working properly.

I only hope that mapmakers will install and test it on their own, before going on wrong conclusions.

Peace.

[ByteBandit]

Well, I think you would've reported along the same lines as I did if it also happened to you. I'm sure the patch is fine on upper end machines. Hell, I played H4 all day yesterday, not one problem except for virtual memory loss even though it's completely patched. But I've always had that problem with it. But no crashes I'll open the H4 campaign editor tomorrow and play around with it to see if I still have problems.
Sometime, I may just install the Roman patch only. I'm thinking with all the actve objects on you chinese patch, my low end computer can't handle it in memory. But I recommend the patch to anyone who can use it.

Some observations on the patch:

I really like the foot bridges, the light brown brick terrain (I used these a lot!) and the various colored flags, the various colored placeable tree objects and only a few of the buildings. (Too many Chinese buildings) I like the H4 objects you included as well. I like most of the water objects you included.

Didn't really like the Warcraft walls. Too bland. And the red colored wall objects, with corners would be excellent if you could only get them to connect to make a complete wall. (There are spaces between placements) The Great Wall objects are cool but seem a little too large for me.

But I would recommend the patch to anyone to use.

Maybe on your next patch, some H2 objects would be a good addition.

[Salamandre]

Every object was updated and mostly animated (new post). The warcraft walls were from Phantom patch but they forgot to add the codes to show them so it is not my work (I only fixed it). But they can fit well in a city layout (see 300) if done well.

The red chinese walls gave me headache. I was not able to make them fit one in other and I hope someone will be able to do it some day.

The chinese patch contains a lot of objects because there is a huge chinese WoG community and very active. I don't think any but them will make anyway a specific chinese scenario. But a lot of objects from it can fit very well in regular maps as well, if the script suits.

The use of the 600 objects requires 40-60 MB cache, which is extremely low, comparing to other games.

[ByteBandit]

I'm going to use it with Animations off in the Map Editor. This should work for low end comps such as mine.

[Salamandre]

It is not the animations who eats memory, but you scrolling and searching for objects. Once you scrolled all terrains, the editor stops increasing cache (checked). Animations are nothing, maybe a few Ko. You need 2 GO memory, otherwise it will crash again.