New content 1.5 preview

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.
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Panda Tar
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New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 18 Nov 2015, 19:00

New article describing some added content (2 SP maps, 12 heroes and 5 neutral units) hinting also for other work to fix issues, but none was enumerated nor mentioned (out of sync is unknown).
  • So, you have 2 new maps (those banners on top of neutrals clutter a bit, I think. They could make it not to appear like that, imho).
  • You have 12 heroes, 2 for each faction, with their specializations written there (you'll find powerful ones and very feeble ones side by side, making me wonder why they were even created to being with). Example quoted below.
  • You have 5 neutral units: all of them are reused assets from H6, so nothing new to explore.
Ivor -- Sylvan
Class: Warden (might defensive)
Specialization: [Hotheaded] The hero starts with the Sylvan Ballista. Sylvan Ballistae in the hero's army have +20 Initiative. All friendly units in the hero's army have +50 Initiative in the first round of combat.
Ajit -- Academy
Class: Sherif (might defensive)
Specialization: [Painless] Hero starts with +4 Defense.
Some heroes are homonyms from H3 heroes, probably trying to appease a bit older fans. :D
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Banedon » 18 Nov 2015, 23:49

One can only wonder how hard Limbic are working their employees. Five patches in six weeks, are you guys demanding 14 hour a day 7 days a week, or what?
Last edited by Banedon on 19 Nov 2015, 10:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Kalah » 19 Nov 2015, 00:23

They use orcs as slave labour. ;)
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 19 Nov 2015, 06:03

These are Germans. I doubt if they work more than 40 hours a week, and they probably take several months' vacation every year. :nervous: :beg:

Oh, and Panda Tar, do you think you could spin the new patch in a more positive light? Some forum members seem to find negative comments very disturbing. :-D

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby gomaki » 19 Nov 2015, 09:39

cjlee wrote:These are Germans. I doubt if they work more than 40 hours a week, and they probably take several months' vacation every year. :nervous: :beg:

Oh, and Panda Tar, do you think you could spin the new patch in a more positive light? Some forum members seem to find negative comments very disturbing. :-D
Boy do I wish that was the case! Not all of us are German as well ;) We're working hard to get the game in a shape that is acceptable and enjoyable for the majority of players. That means some hard work but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and the next few patches are going to be more content/balance/multiplayer focused as opposed to just bug fixing, though A LOT of that is also happening.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Banedon » 19 Nov 2015, 11:10

Thing is, if you're willing to work super long hours now, why didn't you work hard and get the game shipshape before it's released? Unless you were already working 80-hour weeks before the game was released, in which case I shudder to even think what being a game developer is like.
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 19 Nov 2015, 11:58

Banedon wrote:Thing is, if you're willing to work super long hours now, why didn't you work hard and get the game shipshape before it's released? Unless you were already working 80-hour weeks before the game was released, in which case I shudder to even think what being a game developer is like.
For most people in the tech industry it's 120 hour workweeks before a product release, and 30 hour workweeks during the lull period. If you can't handle 120 hours (or some equally inhuman time) in the few weeks before product release date, you can't get product polished properly.

I'm guessing that human rights and European work habits being what they are, Limbic guys didn't work hard enough during that crucial time just before they went gold. I am not proud of the lesser protection being given to tech workers in the East Asian area, but at least Asian makers really do their best before a launch. Foxconn will never produce something so flawed that can be solved quickly by after sales patches and fixes.

Just launching Heroes 7 at patch 1.3 standard would have cut the complaints and negativity by at least 50%, and increased positive commentary by 200%. Instead of an 8:1 negative to positive ratio, we'd get equally balanced negative and positive comments. Which is perfectly healthy for a newly launched game.

Going forward the most important thing for me is that the Heroes community can come back as better patches are offered and game comes up to scratch. For that we need people who love the game enough to be mapmakers and enthusiasts discussing eagerly.

In another thread, Kalah was talking about doing walkthroughs. As much as he strives to maintain a balanced tone as a forum moderator, it was obvious that Kalah was not that eager to invest so much time doing walkthroughs. When the game 'isn't that great', reception is cool, and people aren't having that much fun that they want to write the walkthroughs. So I got the impression that Kalah was only going to 'do his job' because 'someone has to do it'.

Fortunately not all is lost. HeroesV wasn't that great at launch either, but built a following because Nival didn't give up and they really worked hard to learn and improve. It was Nival's hard work on Heroes V that rescued enough fan goodwill for Ubisoft to scam us all with Heroes VI, for instance. Limbic started out on very bad footing with us, but they've improved greatly so I don't think we need to wait for a second expansion before we can consider the game well done.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 19 Nov 2015, 13:24

cjlee wrote: Oh, and Panda Tar, do you think you could spin the new patch in a more positive light? Some forum members seem to find negative comments very disturbing. :-D
I'm not being negative, only being realistic, described what it was announced. ^^ Specially because there was a bit of misunderstanding in their blog of many people complaining that these new neutrals were reused, whilst they never said new, they said 5 additional neutral creatures. Although it does little to appease the feeling of recycled stuff which bothers many, I reckon.

What makes me wonder is that specialization matter, whether they, if truly intending to change other specializations in future, why not creating and adding these new heroes with truly better specializations? You have some with very good things, and others with very poor things. So, I find that counter productive.
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 19 Nov 2015, 14:54

Panda Tar wrote:Although it does little to appease the feeling of recycled stuff which bothers many, I reckon.

What makes me wonder is that specialization matter, whether they, if truly intending to change other specializations in future, why not creating and adding these new heroes with truly better specializations? You have some with very good things, and others with very poor things. So, I find that counter productive.
One of the things that disappointed me most about Limbic was that it didn't seem that any of these guys actually play the game. It is not like the 3DO team, which was making a game that they wanted to play.

I very strongly subscribe to the idea that you should like what you are doing.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 19 Nov 2015, 15:01

Perhaps they do, cjlee, but it's likely that they like something different from expectation. The only drawback is that it's pretty different from what a part of the fan base expects too, so they are on a mining camp nonetheless. Anyway, you are still more optimistic than me. I cannot bring myself to enjoy this game whatsoever, no matter how many stuff it appears in its way hereon in. But I'll keep an eye for anything that would hint for a major structural change, if it ever happens.
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby gourley4p » 19 Nov 2015, 16:16

Yeah, Panda Tar, I didn't view your post as negative. The update does not reference out of sync, and the units all are recycled. That is factual. Others may disagree--I have read desire for darkness elemental--but I was disappointed by these elemental neutrals. I didn't really like them in MMH6. But I am happy for those who wanted it.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 19 Nov 2015, 16:28

If you ask me, this was not the right time to add elements, but to fix those present, specially the ones who are lingering for long. The likelihood of adding other issues with these contents is very prominent. But then, only after testing one'll be able to tell, right?

Aaaaand Patch 1.5 is available. So, time to see how these elements fare.
While last patch was focusing on performance improvements, a primary topic that has been addressed with 1.5 is Multiplayer and Out of Sync issues.
Hopefully, this might help some people (finally).
patch 1.5 is 3.2GB
Brace yourselves. :lol:
Last edited by Panda Tar on 19 Nov 2015, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 19 Nov 2015, 17:01

Panda Tar wrote:Perhaps they do, cjlee, but it's likely that they like something different from expectation. The only drawback is that it's pretty different from what a part of the fan base expects too, so they are on a mining camp nonetheless. Anyway, you are still more optimistic than me. I cannot bring myself to enjoy this game whatsoever, no matter how many stuff it appears in its way hereon in. But I'll keep an eye for anything that would hint for a major structural change, if it ever happens.
I guess it's time for me to get positive and do rah rah for Ubisoft instead.
:hail: :yes: :down: :left: :right: :beg:

As much as I loathe and despise these people, I too do not wish to see the Heroes franchise crash and burn. I'm too old to be gaming anymore. If H7 doesn't get better, if it doesn't develop a fan base that makes good maps and campaigns and stimulate enthusiastic discussions on the forums, I'm out and will probably never game again. This isn't an emotional exaggeration. It's just time for me to make some changes in my life.

Like most older people I value quality more than flashy branded lies. If I'm going to spend my recreation time, I want something good. If not, I don't mind curling up in bed with a thick biography. This is also something that has emerged only in my last 2 years. When I started playing Heroes 1, I could not imagine myself reading any biographies. Even for a school reading assignment, I read these things very reluctantly. But by Heroes V, I was starting to enjoy reading biographies more than poorly written fantasy histories about this queen who fell in love with her rapist's chief assistant, a horny old man with long ears that used to spy on her when she was a child. By Heroes VI, I had no doubt that a good bio was more worth my time than a bad game. And by Heroes VII, if the game isn't polished top notch, I'll choose to read non fiction with a smile.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 19 Nov 2015, 17:40

Well stopping completely my gaming experience ... hm ... I'm not sure if I have a deadline for that. :D It's part of our generation already and it's ever more reaching different and broader range of ages. So, I think that even if things can provide you 1h of fun, some different experience, one should try. ^^ For example, I got some cheap games in Steam these days, one of them is called Lyne. It's simple, yet somehow relaxing, puzzle game. If games such as Heroes, which demand time, won't reach your expectations anymore, maybe you could still consider those shorter games. In the between, you read your books. :) I could say that if games feel like I'm reading a book, interactive one, I'll be most pleased to try them. :-D
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 19 Nov 2015, 18:48

Panda, I used to love Starcraft too. Now it's just a game. Engaging and better quality than H7 so far, but nothing I would lose sleep over unlike my younger days when I would stay up all night just to finish the campaign.

There isn't any computer game that I would reduce my sleep over nowadays. Guess I'm that old.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Panda Tar » 19 Nov 2015, 19:09

I can't argue with your decisions. Resting is healthy. :tsup:

These days I went 'testing' the game Dust: an Elysian Tale, which I bought from Steam for a couple of cents. After getting the feeling of the game, I was alarmed when birds started singing outside my window. Didn't even realized 5 hours had passed. :D

Of course, the game is a bit teen-like when it comes to story and narrative, but it's quite cheerful and fun game-play-wise. :)
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby Pol » 19 Nov 2015, 20:48

cjlee wrote:There isn't any computer game that I would reduce my sleep over nowadays. Guess I'm that old.
Wiser, you are wiser. Guess, at this aspect, we are in the same boat. :lol:
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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby cjlee » 20 Nov 2015, 03:06

Pol wrote:
cjlee wrote:There isn't any computer game that I would reduce my sleep over nowadays. Guess I'm that old.
Wiser, you are wiser. Guess, at this aspect, we are in the same boat. :lol:

I am sad, immensely sad, that the turn based strategy game is really going out of fashion. Ubisoft's crap has made me much more keen on having more alternatives, but I can't find any satisfactory enough.

RTS is also going out of fashion. Blizzard is reportedly no longer interested in RTS.

Is the future an entirely MMORG or FPS one? As an older gamer I really hate this. I simply like thinking a lot more than I like running around, blasting anything else that moves. I will only consider FPS if they make the genre far more dependent on good judgment and brains than it currently is.

One permanent beef I have with all MMORG and FPS, is that it's a 'normal' part of the game to kill anything that moves.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » 20 Nov 2015, 03:53

cjlee wrote:Is the future an entirely MMORG or FPS one?
If it is, I won't be purchasing anything new. I despise the MMORPG stuff, and refuse to play games like World of Warcraft. If Starcraft becomes World of Starcraft, I will no longer participate in the universe.

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Re: New content 1.5 preview

Unread postby gomaki » 25 Nov 2015, 13:13

cjlee wrote:Is the future an entirely MMORG or FPS one?
I can chip in here because it's part of my job and personal interest. The future of PC gaming is most certainly going towards Arena style games like Dota,LoL,Smite,CSGO,Overwatch,Rocket league,Hearthstone. This is what we consider Arena, of course they have there own sub genre (Moba/FPS) Any type of game that you can pick up and play for 1-2 hours and know you've won or lost is what the companies with big big money are looking at, because these games have high ROI. The generation of gamers these days have little brand/product loyalty and are effected a lot by the hype train/snowball syndrome that has come about, even more so with Twitch being so big.

MMORPGS are simply too slow to generate money, though of course we can see from history that eventually they provide the most. People simply don't want to invest 1/2/3 months for 1 item and character development anymore, or not enough people. That's just the way it is and market trends represent that.
We can see lots of Sandbox titles being pushed into the spot light with Kickstarters like Albion Online, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, but these games have big dreams with little funding (relative to what you truly need in this industry) and they never seem to finish, they're always in a perpetual 'beta' state.

It seems that the actual trend for gaming in general (not so much console gaming, but the over all feeling) is more about App games, casual games, quick games. Anything that you can play for an hour and get that rush of a win is what the general player wants. And these games also tend to have HUGE ROI relevant to their budgets. Clash of Clans, Summoners War, Boombeach, Hearthstone (tablet capabilities) are where we are heading. Not something I like to see or think about as a hardcore gamer, but money talks at the end of the day.


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