So is this game worth buying?

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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Galaad
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Dec 8 2015, 13:00

Well, just showing some fans reactions on other forum regarding the game, strongly suggesting is not worth buying, but I get your point.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Dec 8 2015, 16:14

All right, but let's forget about other people; what are your opinions? Another patch was just released, so what's the state of it now?
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Dec 8 2015, 16:44

You must play it still. What's the size of the download this time?

Edit:
3.5 GB
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Dec 8 2015, 20:17

Goodness... version 1.6 within 2 months of game going gold, 3.5gb patch. How many lines of code are there in this patch? Surely the Limbic guys didn't write 1 trillion lines of code in a few weeks? not as if they added 3.4gb of animations?

But at least we're on the right path. Limbic guys are showing Teutonic persistence and plain perseverance in solving a problem that Greek programmers would probably just default on. :lol: :baby:

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Dec 8 2015, 21:19

The size of the patches is indeed a factor that reduces the customer base, that goes in my review.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Dec 8 2015, 22:29

There is many problems that reduces the customer base. One I see as obvious regarding people being angry is how expectations were raised by a misleading advertising which in the end didn't match with the released product. Please do not omit Heroes 7 is supposed to be an homage for the occasion of the anniversary in the form of some kind of a best-of of all features from the past games, yet some no-brainers are missing and other things wrongly implemented, like the random skill system which does not function as in games prior to VI and results as being a fallacy for instance. There is a lot of very questionable decisions made by the team in the game design, I saw very few people approving on these, be it in HC, down the blog or here. What I am saying is people were expecting a gaming experience akin to an enhancement of III/V with a few good things from IV and II there and there, which is not the case. Governor? Ok, but what about magic system which was freaking brilliant in IV, just for the most obvious. Regarding upgrades, why not an hybrid between II and V or whatever ingeniousness Ubilimb could have come up with, to offer us something better than what we have already seen. And since they didn't chose to innovate much (safer imo when you see their ideas in VI) NOTHING should be better in the old games, and as far as I can see, EVERYTHING seems to be better in the old games. Did they really work with the community? It's crystal clear not, when there is people who've been analysing the series for all these years and would have been most likely happy to help. Some did try I am sure of that. When a studio is close to its fan base, the fans are not cursing them by all names. I am sick of reading in random reviews how it is being said "the game was done with the community" when I see all the evidence that it wasn't the case and still isn't. PR was done with the community nothing more. Gomaki said himself he needs to move mountains in order to MAYBE implement the SMALLEST requests from the fans. Heroes V system is "flawed" according to them... V did well because its mechanics were built on III, seriously what is so hard to get. But maybe I digress from my initial reply.

I would focus on the single-player experience (campaigns aside), what it offers, is it necessarily better or is it plain worse in h7 than in its predecessors, and why. Of course there is primordial game mechanics, but atmosphere too has its share, even if the latter is completely subjective I want to point out Ashan looks and feels much more different than Enroth than Axeoth does, if you can get me. I know at this state is just a detail but the over the top excessive high fantasy exaggerated designs never found much love, why are they sticking to it. The only answers I got are that "maybe there are ghosts not expressing themselves", part of the "silent fan base" and "probably they like it". Well guess what, people still playing the old games and not being interested by what Ubi offers are no ghosts and no potential customers either if you keep going on that path! ...

Same goes for multiplayer, Sim-turns were confirmed back in March or April, out-of sync issues are all over the place while Ubi assured us the game would be fine for the release date, with even a dev stream promising the best experience with the patch 1.1. We are patch 1.6 and I don't even know if the game is playable yet.
The AI of course should be a main concern, present in both single and multi, how challenging is it, even if you compare it with Heroes II. I know you already plan to dedicate a section to the Editor, how user-friendly is it, how fast can you generate a random map, its possibilities and limitations, etc.

Finally how well is the game optimised?

I know I missed a whole lot of things, but here's that already.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby mr.hackcrag » Dec 9 2015, 0:14

I'm with CJ, thank goodness for pirates so I could confirm my intuition that the game was very weak in beta and not waste time and money on it.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Dec 9 2015, 8:37

You mean: "thank goodness for CH and other people who test the alpha and beta for us and tell us about it."...? :D

Honestly, though, I don't necessarily think that continously comparing new games to the old ones is fruitful; I think I will try to let H7 stand on its own when I review the game.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Dec 9 2015, 12:08

Kalah wrote:You mean: "thank goodness for CH and other people who test the alpha and beta for us and tell us about it."...? :D

Honestly, though, I don't necessarily think that continously comparing new games to the old ones is fruitful; I think I will try to let H7 stand on its own when I review the game.


I am not supportive of software piracy; I just think that some piracy can be accepted as part of the ecosystem the way parasites are part of our ecosystem.

But as I keep stressing, the most objective criteria for game quality should be met no matter what. It's stuff like game stability, lack of general bugs, lack of game breaking bugs, moderation in resource requirements, time taken to reload, etc. Many Ubic Limsoft decisions are questionable, but they're still subjective. An unstable game that even now with patch 1.6 is causing lost savegames? No way.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Dec 9 2015, 12:44

Kalah wrote:YHonestly, though, I don't necessarily think that continously comparing new games to the old ones is fruitful; I think I will try to let H7 stand on its own when I review the game.


So let me get this straight, you ask for opinion then say it's not fruitful?

I plainly disagree with your stance, considering 1)it's the 7TH INSTALMENT and 2) ITS VERY CONCEPT is to IMPROVE FROM PAST GAMES.

I don't see why a game being inferior to its predecessors is worth buying, alternatively would I buy Witcher 3 if 2 is better? Game design is not ONLY subjective, there is proven formula which passed the test of time on one side and there is quick cash grab concept on the other.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Dec 9 2015, 15:42

I think at this point, v1.6, Heroes 7 is nowhere as sound as Heroes 5 v1.3 was.

I am starting to think that we won't get a complete game until v2.5 or 3.5.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Erwinner » Dec 9 2015, 17:36

Kalah wrote:You mean: "thank goodness for CH and other people who test the alpha and beta for us and tell us about it."...? :D

Honestly, though, I don't necessarily think that continously comparing new games to the old ones is fruitful; I think I will try to let H7 stand on its own when I review the game.


may I ask what the point of reviewing the game is at this point, anyway? the time where it would have had an influence on most people's buying decisions is long gone lol

is it just for the sake of reviewing the game?

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Karmakeld » Dec 9 2015, 20:23

Following the path that H7 was meant to be a sum up of previous Heroes games and taking the best of ideas and work from that, my girlfriend says it, in a very simple way: How hard can it be to analyse what made H3 a good game? What was good in H4? What worked well in H5 etc..
Though I'm looking forward to reading Kalah's review, I think Erwinner's got a point somewhere hidden in all of his lol's. But reviewing the game when knowing it is flawed, and patches are comming up, is destined for a :tsdown:
But for a Heroes fan site, like CH, I think it's fair to make a review, even if it's just for the sake of reviewing the game.. The majority of potential buyer, would likely read their reviews else where, anyway, while members of CH, would except a more in-depth review.

Cjlee and Erwinner, I had commented on your comments where you've quoted me earlier, but the replies vanished.
Kalah, I've experienced it some times, that entries dissapear, even without changing to Full editor, but simply by pressing Submit. Sometimes I'm able to back, and my text is still there, other times I'm not.. :|
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby jeff » Dec 9 2015, 20:52

Karmakeld wrote: Kalah, I've experienced it some times, that entries dissapear, even without changing to Full editor, but simply by pressing Submit. Sometimes I'm able to back, and my text is still there, other times I'm not.. :|


I have had this happen to me as well and frequently don't bother rewriting the post.

Kalah wrote:Honestly, though, I don't necessarily think that continously comparing new games to the old ones is fruitful; I think I will try to let H7 stand on its own when I review the game.


I will agree with this to a degree. Many try to compare the new with a deified memory of an old game; first played by many after it has been patched and polished. In this few games stand a chance of faring well. An example is to say anything critical of H3 and watch the fur fly in defense. However, UBI continues to bring on many of the same criticisms with each release by releasing games before they are ready. This seems to have worsened with each chapter. If H7 had released one month later at least 2 and perhaps the first 3 patches would not have been needed. The main improvement seems to be Limbic's continued efforts to fix the problems. Though I have to say the size of these patches is hard to take. My question there is if you buy it today; do you have to apply all 6 patches?
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Dec 9 2015, 21:03

As reports go, people only complain about a very big patch. I think they update it to a single one, which gets bigger as more patches come by, but not add the exact amount of GBs due files being overwritten. Day-1 patch was 11 GBs, I think. Today I read somewhere that a guy had to download a 12 GBs patch after installing his DVD copy. Given that every patch was marginally 2-3 GBs each, it's safe to assume that they update a single one-patch every time for first installers, but I'm not sure if that size will ever decrease from 12-13 GBs.

Kalah, I've experienced it some times, that entries dissapear, even without changing to Full editor, but simply by pressing Submit. Sometimes I'm able to back, and my text is still there, other times I'm not..


That happens when I take too long to finish writing anything here. I simply push backspace, copy again what I wrote for safety, then I post again. It caused me to post repetitive posts here already once or twice.

And about the review, those of us who are used to come to CH to see reviews should have something at hand, even if 2 months passed already, most likely because those who come are used to reviews and know how reviewers here process the game - it's, as I should call, a 'familiar review' from someone they know and talk to, thus easier to judge their own opinion - as they already know the reviewer point of view and might also recall which points they agreed and didn't agree at past reviews, and personal conclusions are probably more accurate than reading a big magazine's review, I reckon.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Dec 9 2015, 23:23

What is this "lost savegames" people keep talking about? I have experienced nothing of the sort. :??
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Dec 10 2015, 1:44

Did you try to load a save from a precedent patch after you updated?

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Dec 10 2015, 3:24

Game was released so full of holes, it was more like a net than anything solid. So by now if just going by gigybytes you have more patch than original game.

I am somewhat sorry for Limbic people because they didn't have enough time.

And yes, I have experienced the editor text vanishing problem as well. Fortunately they get restored just by pressing the back button on the browser. But it doesn't make me happy at all. This seems to be the only website in the world where if you take over 10 seconds to post something your text disappears.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby mr.hackcrag » Dec 10 2015, 4:26

So you're saying this website needs a patch, eh? :tongue:

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Dec 10 2015, 12:40

Kalah wrote:What is this "lost savegames" people keep talking about? I have experienced nothing of the sort. :??



Some bugs would be 'bound' to happen in certain play throughs, so people would reload their games only for the bug (as an example, the one that made skills and spells vanish), and the bug would happen. If they simply quit game and tried again after 1.6, it would still be buggy. It could happen with save games that would trigger that bug before updating.

In other words, 1.6 didn't fix or save saved games, so, anyone who was having problems with saved games by any fixed bug won't be able to have their problems fixed. They'll have to play again.
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