So is this game worth buying?

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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Madaxe
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Madaxe » Nov 14 2015, 15:43

Aside from that, I hope that my behavior or, sometimes, my snide comments on this new installment don't offend any of you.
None taken Mr. Fluffy Panda. Your posts are always respectful, thoughtful and ....uh...long :tongue: I think you did a great job explaining your points and I understand where you are coming from.

I think some of my head scratching is just personalities. I too cherish this series, as do many. And I too was disappointed by a release (or releases to some), as I was very disappointed in H6 in both design decisions and it's poor execution. But, I didn't go to H6 threads and comment on how much I hated it, or how Ubisoft is evil, or how in the world anyone could enjoy H6, etc. I just simply...left. Life is too short and there are other games I like that I can go play. But, that is in line with my "lurker" personality. Other personalities probably find posting and conversation almost as fun as the games themselves and so would tend to post on threads, even if they don't own the game or like it. The other thing that dawned on me is that even though there are threads for the different games that one can go participate in for the release that they like, these boards are also a "community", and many of it's members will gravitate to where the conversations are.
I'm also aware that the game satisfies a public in its own way, but I think it does not have anything to offer other than what's has been offered already.
I think that a majority of Heroes fans would say "We want a Heroes game that stays true to the core gameplay, but with enough innovations and mechanics that it is "fresh" and offers plenty of room for discovery". But, the details of that statement vary between users! For me, H6 failed to do this, because it changed too much of what I consider "core" and I didn't find much fun in discovering what was new. And, for me, H7 fulfills that statement, and I enjoyed it.

Overall, I think some of the frustration that those who are enjoying H7 is that the H7 threads seem dominated by negativity (and I am not saying that a lot of the negativity isn't warranted, especially at this stage where people want their voices heard while there is still a chance for change). Kind of like when H5 came out for those who remember it on CH here. There was a "culture" of negativity if you will, from many of whom didn't even own the game. I remember some posters who liked H5 being called Ubisoft employees, for instance. Eventually, many who liked H5 left and went over to HC. They went somewhere where they could post/lurk with people who were playing and enjoying (at least to some extent, not that HC users said H5 was perfect) the game. This, in the long term I believe, led to CH becoming a bit of a ghost town. Mostly a half dozen old timers around a campfire reminiscing about the good old NWC days :D . So, in some ways, I think those who like H7, feel a bit like refugees, looking for a home :nervous: . And the H7 threads feel kind of like a Brazil football fan in a Brazil football thread where most of the posts are from Argentina fans :-D

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 14 2015, 18:15

None taken Mr. Fluffy Panda.
Aw, you. :hug:
The other thing that dawned on me is that even though there are threads for the different games that one can go participate in for the release that they like, these boards are also a "community", and many of it's members will gravitate to where the conversations are.
True enough. I only visit forums regarding this game. This is the first gaming forum I ever visited or participated, back in... 2003, when it was still a 'forumplanet' forum, and it was also the first time I used Internet to speak to foreign people, my connection was still dial up (got my parents angry due the cost of our phone bills) and I got addicted. It was so good learning and talking to so many different people. :-D That's why I'm around here. Even not meeting personally people here, I grow fond of them and I could call them friends as well, and they're the gravity which pulls me back even after all the problems with the games in which these forums are dedicated for.
I think that a majority of Heroes fans would say "We want a Heroes game that stays true to the core gameplay, but with enough innovations and mechanics that it is "fresh" and offers plenty of room for discovery". But, the details of that statement vary between users!


Yeah, as I stated somewhere, my enthusiasm started to falter back in Heroes 5 (not in 4, actually, given that I concede it was the Heroes game I most played thanks to Equilibris, although 2 is the one I most like), because it pruned some of the features I most liked in H4, instead of polishing them. I can see a relation of that behavior regarding H7 towards H6, where the latter had some new features added, poorly, but they got chopped off in H7, instead of polished. This sort of behavior, from developers, seem strange, as if they quite didn't try to make things work, so only sticking with the basics, making games feel less and less innovative and boring. That's why I don't fancy the last installments, because I don't see an evolution, but simply only an average attempt to be similar. ;) H6 meddled with things which worked fine and people liked which was the skill and spells systems, which showed, at least in my perception, that they didn't actually understood their customers.
So, in some ways, I think those who like H7, feel a bit like refugees, looking for a home :nervous: . And the H7 threads feel kind of like a Brazil football fan in a Brazil football thread where most of the posts are from Argentina fans :-D
:lol: I can relate.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby mr.hackcrag » Nov 14 2015, 19:42

I only visit forums regarding this game. This is the first gaming forum I ever visited or participated, back in... 2003
I lost my forum virginity to CH too. :smooch:

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Nov 14 2015, 19:51

I'm currently playing through the campaigns in order to write my review (and walkthrough, since nobody else seems willing ;) ), and I must say that things have improved a lot since I played the betas. It started badly with map 1, with lots of GUI troubles and stupid design decisions, but as the campaign progresses I am enjoying it more. The new innovations the Limbic folks have come up with (such as being able to clear and destroy terrain) make for some interesting campaign scenarios.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Karmakeld » Nov 14 2015, 20:17

waiting patiently for your review Kalah. And even if I eventually buy this game, I doubt I'll quiting my H4 campaign project any day soon to try out the H7 editor, but from a map-makers perspective, I think the H7 editor invites for some really advanced map-making compared to prev. heroes editors. H6 had nice combat ideas, as well as Heroes Online (not just some more or less standard combat map design or objective = kill all enemies), but the lack of an user friendly editor, well..
Anyway looking back at H4, which I'm currently making a campaign for, I think there can also be quite a difference between the innovation you see in game, by new skill/spell systems, new creatures/creature abilities and structures etc. and the map/campaign designs and victory condition. What I mean is, that you could do so much more with the H4 editor than you see in any of the official campaign or in game maps. Alot of innovation also shows when fans start to create maps. Of course the core of the game's innovation is decided by the dev's, but with H7 they seem to atleast have made it alot easier to mod alot of things to your liking. With just the right visions, I think you could create some very memorable maps/campaigns for H7.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Karmakeld » Nov 14 2015, 22:28

just watched this review.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74GRowG4SSc and he's making some good points, but he's not impressed. But I think it's based on the early version, before patching, but for someone who hasn't yet played it, (besides seeing the loooooong list of fixes), it's becomes clear why so many people think it was rushes through. Kalah will you follow up with vid or just text and pics?
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 14 2015, 22:51

Yeah, October 2nd he published that. Although the critical bugs and optimization problems were present, it seems he didn't have much of a problem with them, but the points regarding core mechanics are somewhat what I conclude while checking regular information from time to time, which is to say, I share his opinion that the game has no reason to exist. :D

Meanwhile, hyped to play H4 and H5.5 and, perhaps, HotA again. I wished there were good and extensive H2 modding, though. :beg:
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Steven Aus » Nov 14 2015, 23:01

Well, the most extensive H2 modding project is Project Ironfist, which can be found at:

http://heroes2.forumactif.com/f17-heroe ... t-ironfist
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby gourley4p » Nov 15 2015, 0:12

Good conversation here, Madaxe and Panda Tar. I want to respond to a few things.
I didn't go to H6 threads and comment on how much I hated it, or how Ubisoft is evil, or how in the world anyone could enjoy H6, etc. I just simply...left.
This is my style, too. I have zero interest in Final Fantasy XV because of the action-based combat. Rather than beat up Square Enix for a design decision I don't like and post all over forums where people who are excited for the game like to hang out, I'm just done with it. I won't buy it. I'll be speaking with my wallet and playing other games instead.

A big difference between my example of FFXIV and MMH7 is that some people feel the current publisher has no idea what fans want and must strongly send the message for how to right the ship. And I get that. Plus, as you said, some people simply enjoy posting their comments more and giving the feedback more than playing a different game.

But let me give you an example of a completely unnecessary, non-constructive mode of feedback I see from a few disappointed fans. On the Shadow Council website, a player posted that s/he was enjoying the game since version 1.2 with no crashes, etc. A very prominent community member, one who sometimes comes here just to make sure the tone of the forum stays negative, replied to that post with a single line: "lol." That is the kind of thing that needs to stop.

Displaying your amusement at--well, we don't know at what because of the lack of context--does not contribute to the conversation or development of a better game in any way. I reported the response, and it has since been deleted. Disagree over the decision to use zone of control. Post ideas about how units can be adjusted for better balance. But don't post crap like that.
some people, myself included, don't know anymore what's bug and what's designing decision.
I would love to read some examples from you Panda Tar. Maybe we can put our heads together.
I'm also aware that the game satisfies a public in its own way, but I think it does not have anything to offer other than what's has been offered already. Some compare with 3 or 5, but truly, if it's to make a copy of those, there's no reason to exist. I fail to notice or consider anything in H7 that adds to the franchise as something we say: wow, I wanted this on the old ones, they would be better, and heuristically adds that thing as a new Heroes feature (to name some, we have Heroes fighting, troops with mythical units, skill system, magic system, town with structures, you get the picture). Right now, it's an average copy, trying to get complete after production and cleansed from all bugs and the shadow of another not so popular one (H6), as Pol explained.
I understand what you are saying but disagree. I enjoy the Campaign mode of these games. I want MMH7 to tell me a story. So even without new features, it can be a worthy game to me. That is not to say I don't want new features.

For instance, I enjoyed the achievements and Dynasty Weapons of MMH6. Since Ubisoft feels they can only permit Dynasty Weapons with constant UPlay connection and the fan base is (understandably) overwhelmingly against that, the feature didn't make it into MMH7. Like you, I would have enjoyed a refinement of a new idea like that, which they implemented poorly, over simply removing the feature.
It's your right to enjoy and buy whatever game you like.
Likewise, it is any forum member's right to dislike a game and not buy it. It also is their right--within the rules of moderation of the forum--to post about their dislike of the game. For me, it just comes down to a scenario of two choices:
  1. Play the retail game. Post what you dislike about it to help others reading this thread decide if they want to purchase it also. Maybe keep an eye on the thread if bugs chased you away; a post from a current player might tell you about a patch that fixed the bug that hindered you most. Primarily, move on with your life.
  2. Don't play the retail game. Consider posting what advertised design element or beta feature caused you not to be customer. Also consider maybe not saying anything since you don't own the game.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 15 2015, 1:14

@Steven Aus
Thank you, SA, it looks interesting. I'll get to it. :-D

@gourley4p
I understand what you are saying but disagree. I enjoy the Campaign mode of these games. I want MMH7 to tell me a story. So even without new features, it can be a worthy game to me. That is not to say I don't want new features
I see. For me, Campaigns never were the focus of my attention. I always loved playing single scenario maps and never played multiplayer. What struck me odd when they presented H7 as being 'fantasy RPG', as they wrote on the tab of SC, is that they themselves told us in one of the skill philosophy article months ago that they didn't want this game to be RPG. Storytelling and evolution is basically RPG. I love RPG, but this issue felt amiss, another thing I sensed strange in their process of game making, making myself perceive, after their release, that they put much store on Campaign, which I heard many people complimenting, whilst on the other issues, it was visible the lack of tact, such as that multiplayer problem which lingers to this day, more than a month after release.
I would love to read some examples from you Panda Tar. Maybe we can put our heads together.
I'll try to remember some later, but right now, I remember this:
1) I reported here that there was a problem with justicar retaliating a fury (which is not supposed to be retaliated), because an adjacent unit was attacked by the gnoll's special reaction. Justicar intended to respond the gnoll's attack, but it retaliated furies instead (because they were beside justicars, whilst gnolls were far). This is something I don't know if it was intended or not. For me, it shouldn't happen, but I'm not sure if they have this as intended.
2) When they were saying how Multiplayer worked when using simultaneous turns, they said, after surprising me, that players could watch their opponents fights after ending their turn, so as a way not to be waiting in the dark. When I first heard that I thought it was an absurd, then a dev said it was intended and I was like: "Hoe, whadda heck you doin'?!" :D
3) Town Levels, which restrict your strategies to a few, instead of making it broader. I mean, in older games, you could choose your town building in a plethora of combinations in a same map. When I heard about this town levels, I didn't think it was that restrictive, but it turned out to be intended this way and I don't understand this decision.

Other examples would require me to go reading some older stuff and I'm not in the right mood. :D Some design decisions are hazy and you can prompt some, if you want to discuss it here, from a H7 player to a H7 non-player and see the outside perspective. ;)
For me, it just comes down to a scenario of two choices:´
I understand both, although 2 doesn't seem a good way to go, imho. Anyway, people reaction about something they cherish will vary a lot, specially because we are many, we are from many different countries, within each country there are different cultures, and each person is different, and perception about everything and the access of information and timing also dictates a lot about reactions. Many will not understand your points here and won't agree that it'll suffice for the general benefit, specially when the product means a personal offense. Others may cool down much later than the first, and so on.

Although rather wearing, I find it humane and normal dealing with all this public, and as I understand the decision for those who like the game to buy it, I also understand the decision of people who got offended by the final product to deal with the problem in their own manner, as I have and you have your own manner to deal with it, but you don't lack finesse with that, I must say. ;) I admit that I was toxic for a while at SC as well, and sometimes I pinch them here and there, but it was mainly because I feel, as some other people do, many things which were told that would happen and that would make the release of the game a problem were told back then, and yet, it came with problem. But I won't enter, right now, the realms of why it happened that way right now. But one thing I find inexcusable is transferring problems of production, whichever terms they had, to customers.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Nov 15 2015, 1:35

Kalah will you follow up with vid or just text and pics?
I'll do text and pictures, video just takes too long. I will also test the editor, though. If a simple mapmaker such as I can use that to create a nice and playable map, I'm sure better and more dedicated mapmakers like you will find it a good tool for your creations. Given that the editor is such an important piece of the game, it should be part of a review.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Karmakeld » Nov 15 2015, 12:03

absolutely.. the editor is what makes these games live longer. I've seen some review so far, and if you're looking strictly at skirmish maps, I can def. understand the dissapointment. All available maps can be seen on the screen without having to scroll, also it's quite likely that the skirmish maps doesn't present much of the new feature, which the campaigns offers. The lack of innovation is an example, that might not justify a bad review based only on skirmish map, as those maps aren't likely to include stuff like a dam being broken down with water flushing into the lands out or harpies caught in a magic cage, powered by crystal pillars, which will also appear in the battlefield. But if you generally find e.g. the way towns are leveled up, restricting and not very fun (like Panda Tar), I'm not sure if a good editor/fan made maps will make that much of a difference.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Madaxe » Nov 15 2015, 16:28

gourley4p wrote:
I'll be speaking with my wallet and playing other games instead.
Yep, that is my view too. For H6, I didn't purchase anything after the initial release. I might fire off a "parting shot" of what I don't like and why, especially somewhere the devs will see it, but after that I am gone.
But let me give you an example of a completely unnecessary, non-constructive mode of feedback
Yeah, there have been many of those kinds of posts at times, leading to my comment that for some it just seems "personal". Almost at "Vendetta" level :devil:

Panda Tar wrote:
This is the first gaming forum I ever visited or participated, back in... 2003, when it was still a 'forumplanet' forum, and it was also the first time I used Internet to speak to foreign people, my connection was still dial up (got my parents angry due the cost of our phone bills) and I got addicted
I used to visit all of the usenet news groups long ago. Back when there were "news readers" such as Trumpet. :S . I remember the forumplanet sites and Astral Wizard.... The modem days, where someone picking up the phone clobbered your internet :lol:
some people, myself included, don't know anymore what's bug and what's designing decision.
Yeah, a lack of a manual doesn't help that at all. I am not sure either at times.....

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby gourley4p » Nov 17 2015, 14:03

I'll try to remember some [examples where I do not know if it is a feature or a bug] later, but right now, I remember this:
1) I reported here that there was a problem with justicar retaliating a fury (which is not supposed to be retaliated), because an adjacent unit was attacked by the gnoll's special reaction. Justicar intended to respond the gnoll's attack, but it retaliated furies instead (because they were beside justicars, whilst gnolls were far). This is something I don't know if it was intended or not. For me, it shouldn't happen, but I'm not sure if they have this as intended.
The exact text of this skill says the Justicar "gets a free retaliation on a neighbouring enemy creature which attacks a friendly creature." It is does not mention the need for the friendly stack to retaliate. I would say it is working as intended and adds a layer of strategy.
2) When they were saying how Multiplayer worked when using simultaneous turns, they said, after surprising me, that players could watch their opponents fights after ending their turn, so as a way not to be waiting in the dark. When I first heard that I thought it was an absurd, then a dev said it was intended and I was like: "Hoe, whadda heck you doin'?!" :D
That one definitely was a feature not given enough thought. They discussed it in one of the last streams. Many people had expressed concern that it ruined competition by revealing player armies and strategies. I thought they said they would address it, but it sounds like it persists from your play experience with the retail product.
3) Town Levels, which restrict your strategies to a few, instead of making it broader. I mean, in older games, you could choose your town building in a plethora of combinations in a same map. When I heard about this town levels, I didn't think it was that restrictive, but it turned out to be intended this way and I don't understand this decision.
This is a feature, and I understand why you might find it restrictive. I am not sure why you would be confused about it being a bug considering they had an article about town levels on the website. I think this just fits in the category of a design decision you dislike.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 17 2015, 16:05

@gourley4p
What would be need to test in the Justicar's ability, is if they'll retaliate furies without those gnolls attacking. Given that the person who described the occurrence is very perfectionist, I think he tested before and Justicars didn't retaliated, only triggering their retaliation after gnolls launching their reactive ability. But that situation I would have to ask him, or someone who has the game to test. You could test it to check it out. The difference would be: the retaliation is happening against the furies (which would be, as you said, the right thing) or retaliation is happening due gnolls attack against the furies (which would not be ok).

Regarding Sim Turns, right now, I'm not sure if this issue is still lingering. Mainly because I rarely see people talking about playing multiplayer when they get out of sync problems more often than not. Now, they talk about "Waiting screen" and they want it out. Not sure what that means though.

On the town level matter, I mean that they described that decision as being 'not restrictive', which is to say, they hinted this layout was better for different strategies, balanced. I can't see their point, so I'm not sure if something is amiss in their system or if I just don't get them. But you are completely right too that this is, either it's intended or not, a design I don't like.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 17 2015, 18:22

Some of you folks clearly have a problem with people saying negative things and are even hinting that negative people have an agenda. Here is my response:

Firstly, you would sound more credible if you didn’t post on the bugs thread about the many problems you are still having after patch 1.4. When someone complains about (many) bugs, then expresses a desire to hear positive things, it sounds like someone who is merely trying to convince himself that he has not been suckered into becoming Ubisoft’s beta tester.

Secondly, I do want to buy Heroes 7 at some point. But I have no intention of being suckered. If it isn’t polished properly, I won’t buy. Until then I am an extremely sceptical buyer who insists on kicking all tires and examining everything carefully. Stuff that doesn’t stand up to critical scrutiny – forget it. Ubisoft is not the type of company that can be trusted to sell a sound product on promises alone. I trust them as much as I trust Chrysler or GM cars, and I’m in very good company. Chrysler basically did everything in its power since the 1970s to destroy confidence and its own brand rep, and even though it has been rising in the reviews in the past few years, it has lost an entire generation of potential buyers and can no longer rely on brand name to sell. By now it is almost impossible to rely on patriotism to sell ‘USA cars’ because everyone knows it is just an excuse for crap firms to make crap to fool right wing nuts.

Thirdly, no matter how negative I sound on this forum, I am only one person on one forum. The potential market for Heroes 7 is over 1 million. Why should a few negative people make you unhappy… unless there aren’t that many happy buyers to begin with? The other H7 forums aren’t exactly brimming with enthusiastic forummers discussing their favourite unit, tactic, or hero specialization. More like people are still complaining of game breaking bugs and having difficulty making it through the campaigns. And Ubisoft’s official website – that’s a joke. The H7 section is still incomplete, 1 month after game was released.

Ultimately what will keep this game alive is a healthy and happy fan base. If that existed, a few negative voices will easily be drowned by happy people posting fan art, mapmakers offering custom campaigns, polls on favourite race, lots of threads discussing strategies, people coming up with creative ways to beat the AI under impossible odds, etc. But here people are mostly talking about Bug Reports and whether the game is worth buying.

If you really love the game that much, just post an essay about how justicars are your favourite unit. I’m sure most people, including me, would listen without making snide remarks about Ubisoft. After all, Justicars are a new unit with seemingly new abilities, and people would like to hear about how they can be used. I wanna know too. I got the impression that they can retaliate ranged attacks by taking it out on nearby melee enemies? It would make sense and I would definitely like melee units that can do that. But lemme guess… game is still so buggy that you can’t be sure that’s how justicars work, so you can’t post any positive posts to infect us with your enthusiasm?

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Madaxe » Nov 17 2015, 18:26

Panda Tar wrote:
2) When they were saying how Multiplayer worked when using simultaneous turns, they said, after surprising me, that players could watch their opponents fights after ending their turn, so as a way not to be waiting in the dark. When I first heard that I thought it was an absurd, then a dev said it was intended and I was like: "Hoe, whadda heck you doin'?!" :D
gourley4p wrote:
That one definitely was a feature not given enough thought. They discussed it in one of the last streams. Many people had expressed concern that it ruined competition by revealing player armies and strategies. I thought they said they would address it, but it sounds like it persists from your play experience with the retail product.
This is probably my biggest disappointment so far. Their odd decision on Sim Turns. All they really had to do was take H5 Sim Turns, and have it resume Sim Turns after the players no longer intersected ;|. I would think most would have been happy with that solution, especially over what they are giving us here, a very poor Sim Turns (barely qualifies as such).

They have been pretty silent on this issue when people have asked if it will be fixed/improved. I am hoping that it means that, even if it won't be changed in a patch, that they will still address it in a (hopeful) expansion pack. :beg:

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Nov 18 2015, 2:09

But let me give you an example of a completely unnecessary, non-constructive mode of feedback I see from a few disappointed fans. On the Shadow Council website, a player posted that s/he was enjoying the game since version 1.2 with no crashes, etc. A very prominent community member, one who sometimes comes here just to make sure the tone of the forum stays negative, replied to that post with a single line: "lol." That is the kind of thing that needs to stop.
Hello there, may I remind you how many times we've been blatantly lied to by Ubilimbic about this game? :tired:
Basically, our goal is to take the best out of the previous Heroes titles and build Heroes VII from there. Of course we're also bringing in new features or new ideas without compromising the spirit of Heroes, such as more interactions on the Adventure Map allowing more strategies. For now we won't delve too much into the details but we have brought in hundreds of small improvements which will help to perfect the formula.
I still consider H7 a "best-of album" of Heroes, but I agree it's "our" best-of album. I believe every fan would make his own best-of album, each of them different from all the others. And they would all claim to speak for the whole fanbase :D
Well that clear things up a bit. :tsdown:
The magic system in Heroes VII will be very close to the ones implemented in Heroes III & V. Unfortunately that's all we can say at the current time but don't worry we will definitively talk about it as soon as we can! (We can confirm the return of magic guilds though )
Yeah, right. :loll:
The truth is we discussed an option to implement randomization. But in the end we decided to let you choose what skills / abilities you want to unlock. So it will be a kind of mix between H6 (full control is in your hands) and H5 (skills are structured in a wheel). We will develop this point in the following months on our Shadow Council website to give you more details.
Most people thought this meant we would get something like the H5 skillwheel without the randomness. That is what caused the whole #GURS insurgence. When in actual fact they were planning to use something similar to the H6 system, only visualized like a wheel. While they gave the option of adding randomness later on, that was not what the community actually wanted. From the developers point of view this might be an example of fans having too high expectations. First they say they want random skills, we give them random skills, and then they want a new skill system altogether. But this was merely a result of withholding information for too long. Had they just added a few sentences regarding the skill system in September (instead of waiting until April 2015), they would have gotten more constructive feedback early enough to do something about it, without the disappointment that the skill system inevitable caused. And the continual promise of more information without actually giving any for months in a row proved frustrating for many.
Bruckernavn is damn right. :tsup:
Philosophy: with Heroes VII, we really wanted to offer the best of Heroes experience, focusing on core gameplay strength of the series. To do so, our Game Designers spent months and months to identify what would be for H7 this magical recipe and how to really implement it in the game.
First of all let’s remember that in Heroes V, originally (before modding), there was no skillwheel and players had to post-rationalize everything to get a clue of how it was working, otherwise you blindly chose skills and abilities according to the moment’s judgment. Also, you could unlock skills by visiting buildings, which could occasionally ruin your plans. Save/Load strategies to avoid that are not unheard of. We believe that means that the design is flawed.
So first you want to focus on “core gameplay strength on the series” and then it's “flawed?” :disagree:
But I think I get it, some people just want every hero to be fully optimized as they can't play if they get an "unwanted" skill and most likely never figured out how to effectively use secondary -read supportive- heroes.
On the same topic, providing the possibility to reset the whole hero by paying gold in a special building is also a dirty fix to a flawed system. Cross skill restriction and cross ability restrictions are just more constraints to the player’s control over his hero’s development, it’s arguably a design quality per se. Some advocate that they like more constraints and difficulty, less control, that’s a purely subjective opinion and we know there is no consensus here, we prefer to give players control over their hero’s development.
OK this is undoubtedly in line with the fan base's expectations, crystal clear! :rofl:

Although we have h6 fanboys taking their side, obviously.

:wall:

So maybe the real problem doesn't lie in some disappointed fans such as myself replying a harmless “lol” to some n00b claiming the game works without any trouble in their marketing gallery when the vanilla as expected appears to be so broken many buyers are unable to play or can't even start it, maybe the real problem lies into a company which is giving a slow and painful death to this once glorious franchise, tarnishing and usurping its name with people in charge having no clue whatsoever about how the game is supposed to be played (how could they, most didn't play h3, some not even h5) neither showed any respect to the original universe (quite on the contrary) for over a decade now, then go lying and tricking the fans they even accuse of being conservative nazis or possibly try to bribe VIPs in order to what, defend their failures? Add how much they managed to divide the fans with their eccentricities and even offer them an arena to fight between themselves (shall I recall the SC votes, which teared apart iconic creatures to be sure the most toxic atmosphere could happen) and I think we don't have the same idea of what needs to stop here.

Oh, and next time you want to speak behind my back, you can always send me a PM, I don't bite.

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gourley4p
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby gourley4p » Nov 19 2015, 15:56

On an iPad all week, so not able to be as eloquent as I would like, but I did want to post something.
I rarely see people talking about playing multiplayer when they get out of sync problems more often than not. Now, they talk about "Waiting screen" and they want it out. Not sure what that means though.
Agreed. This is absolutely inexcusable. It must be fixed for the game to have any appeal to people who want multiplayer.
you would sound more credible if you didn’t post on the bugs thread about the many problems you are still having after patch 1.4. When someone complains about (many) bugs, then expresses a desire to hear positive things, it sounds like someone who is merely trying to convince himself that he has not been suckered into becoming Ubisoft’s beta tester.
I disagree that reporting bugs is being negative. I don't see this as a binary issue; I can point out a bug without saying the game is the only game ever released with bugs. Or that Ubisoft is evil. Or that people who enjoy the game are suckers and everything wrong with gaming. Can you see any difference between saying "This spell effect does not work on unit X" and "This spell is broken. The game was rushed. Erwin wants to kill babies"?
Why should a few negative people make you unhappy?
It is not negativity, in general that I oppose. It is the senseless negativity that brings nothing to the discussion that bothers me. It is insulting people with different opinions that does no good for gaming. I gave an example before of what I mean. I don't dislike it when someone says he doesn't approve of the town levels because they preclude a certain strategy, such as rush to champion building. I dislike when someone says he doesn't approve of the town levels and that anyone who does is an Ubi fanboy. The latter adds nothing to discourse.
Ultimately what will keep this game alive is a healthy and happy fan base. If that existed, a few negative voices will easily be drowned by happy people posting fan art, mapmakers offering custom campaigns, polls on favourite race, lots of threads discussing strategies, people coming up with creative ways to beat the AI under impossible odds, etc. But here people are mostly talking about Bug Reports and whether the game is worth buying.
Agreed. I have been wanting to start a favorite campaign thread, but I had a paper for my doctoral class last week and a business trip this week.
lemme guess… game is still so buggy that you can’t be sure that’s how justicars work, so you can’t post any positive posts to infect us with your enthusiasm?
You would guess wrong on that account. I am not trying to deny the bugs others are experiencing. I have encountered maybe 4, none of which stop me from playing and progressing in Campaigns. The justicar ability seems to be working as intended from my reading of the text. However, it is possible that it is not working as intended and is bugged. Thankfully, someone has reported it so that we can get an answer.
a harmless “lol” to some n00b claiming the game works
It is not harmless. It is rude and it exemplifies why I have no desire to try to have an adult conversation with you. Because this person's experience varies from your vision for the franchise, he is labeled as n00b, which is a pejorative that indicates the person is a bad gamer.

You (not all negative reviews, but especially you) seem to have an agenda to sabotage the game because you are so mad about the design. You have a zealous perception of what is right that is unyielding to the point of turning you into a forum bully. Best of luck in finding a game that suits your needs. I hope another game can give you that fun feeling every gamer deserves.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 19 2015, 16:04

The justicar ability seems to be working as intended from my reading of the text. However, it is possible that it is not working as intended and is bugged. Thankfully, someone has reported it so that we can get an answer.
Yup, the difference is only trying to understand if those justicars are retaliating furies (which would then be right even with their no retaliation ability) or retaliating gnolls but affecting furies instead (which is something not really logical, then it could be a bug).
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:


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