So is this game worth buying?

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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Galaad
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Nov 19 2015, 16:56

gourley4p wrote:You (not all negative reviews, but especially you) seem to have an agenda to sabotage the game because you are so mad about the design.


Let's stop ad-hominem accusations if you please.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Nov 19 2015, 22:43

Yes, let's cool down, both of you. I'll be watching with my godlike attention span and shall smite :slap: anyone who dares defy my decree that this shall be a friendly forum. :hug:

Now, instead of arguing, let's return to the topic at hand. I have to say that as far as the campaigns are concerned, they're quite good. So if it's a single player campaign experience you're after, I'd say the game is worth buying. I still haven't tried the editor or multiplayer, though, and I'm told that's where the real problems lie. So if that's the kind of player you are (mapmaker, multiplayer), you might want to hold off on it for a while yet. Can any of you confirm that these other areas are still having some problems?
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 20 2015, 0:39

Accordingly to gomaki and some reports so far, both are partially working, still having problems for some and for other, none. Multiplayer might still have some issues, because not all out of sync stances were covered yet. But tomorrow-on will be better to find out, give more time to test.

A note for you, and Dan/gomaki might agree, is for you to open a thread here with suggestions of balancing and implementation of not far-fetched tweaks for the time being, as a way to discussion of current features - although these things have been done for a while, it's just now that it looks like they'll pay some more attention to it. I believe some key-features must have threads of their own, with the description of the current system, and then the discussions on how to improve steady, if possible.

:offtopic:
And I found my H5 copy! Just have to buy expansion now to test this 5.5 mod. SQUEE!
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 20 2015, 3:00

Panda Tar wrote:
The justicar ability seems to be working as intended from my reading of the text. However, it is possible that it is not working as intended and is bugged. Thankfully, someone has reported it so that we can get an answer.


Yup, the difference is only trying to understand if those justicars are retaliating furies (which would then be right even with their no retaliation ability) or retaliating gnolls but affecting furies instead (which is something not really logical, then it could be a bug).


It's terrible when we can't even tell if an unexpected feature in the game constitutes a bug, or is part of game design!

But that said, even bugs may be turned into something constructive. Because Justicars are a melee unit they naturally cannot be expected to throw their swords at some distant attacker in retaliation. So even if their attack on the furies was a bug, I say keep it but make sure it works consistently.

Or maybe what we need is a 'negates no retaliation' additional ability. If you remember H4, there is the 'negates first strike' ability for instance.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 20 2015, 3:16

I think a unit could have an ability which could be "eye for an eye'" or even "avenger" which could inflict a retaliative damage on any adjacent foe whenever an ally was damaged, of course, not triggering every time to avoid imbalances. Although the many flaws I see in the game, one of the things I see as improvement are the different reactive abilities, which can be more diverse and help increasing the array of battle strategies.

Difference from Justicar is that Justicar strikes the attacking foe when adjacent to it. That other ability would make one strike any adjacent foe even if the attacker is on the other side of the battle map.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 20 2015, 6:41

Just to make a positive statement (throwing some meat to the howling folks who hate negativity)...

I think the changes proposed by patch 1.5 will make the game nicer.

OK, sure, as you can see from the Ubisoft forums, most people are not happy at all that they're getting Heroes 6 cut and pasted. The same units, the same graphics, etc. The most annoying H6 unit, the Toad, makes a return. But I think having the neutrals is better than having none, and their abilities (assuming various light and dark magic immunities remain) will add depth to the game.

It is also pleasing to see that some familiar heroes have returned, with their bios fleshing them out more eg Sephinroth now generates random resources and has a thief bio to explain her resources, which I think is a professional touch.

The only main grouse I have with the 12 addidional heroes, is that their perks don't really scale making them generally not worth levelling up. A well rounded heroes roster should have all kinds - those whose abilities give them an early start, those strong in mid game, those strong in end game, those with skills that limit them to their own faction but which are stronger, those with weaker skills but applicable to troops from all factions, those who help their empire strategically but not their own troops tactically, etc.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Nov 20 2015, 7:19

Yeah I quite like that there are more neutrals too, the more the merrier. :)

But hey, isn't the arrival of the Kappa a good indication that the Sanctuary faction might pop up later?
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Avonu » Nov 20 2015, 7:40

Nope, not at all.
If you looking at neutral units at all, then Inferno should have better chances - we have 2 neutral Demon units.

Current the best chances to arrive, if there will be any expansion pack at all, has Dwarven Fortress.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 20 2015, 12:39

Avonu wrote:Nope, not at all.
If you looking at neutral units at all, then Inferno should have better chances - we have 2 neutral Demon units.

Current the best chances to arrive, if there will be any expansion pack at all, has Dwarven Fortress.



Hey guys lets see the game patched properly first. There are still people reporting game breaking bugs and performance issues.

Don't ever give Ubisoft ideas, because they are money obsessed. If they think they can get away with charging us money for DLC 3 months after launch, they will do it. I hate to think that they may order Limbic to produce a poorly tested, not debugged, hastily made 2-map Sanctuary campaign and charge 5Euros for that.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Galaad » Nov 20 2015, 13:50

Kalah wrote:I still haven't tried the editor or multiplayer, though, and I'm told that's where the real problems lie.


Obviously these have to be fixed but I think you are being told wrong. I will sound like a broken record again but IMO as long as the Team refuses to rework skill system, magic system, hero specials, remove the level cap, creature abilities, as well as most skills and spells, the game has little replayability. I can assure if some people enjoy the game as it is now, they will be bored of it in one year or two max. Meanwhile, over a decade years old games h3 and h5 are in their modding golden age...

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 20 2015, 19:05

Galaad wrote:
Kalah wrote:I still haven't tried the editor or multiplayer, though, and I'm told that's where the real problems lie.


Obviously these have to be fixed but I think you are being told wrong. I will sound like a broken record again but IMO as long as the Team refuses to rework skill system, magic system, hero specials, remove the level cap, creature abilities, as well as most skills and spells, the game has little replayability. I can assure if some people enjoy the game as it is now, they will be bored of it in one year or two max. Meanwhile, over a decade years old games h3 and h5 are in their modding golden age...


Galaad

Everytime I think the negativity is starting to come to an end, I am proven wrong again.

The latest 1.5 patch has bugs in it reported already. 8|

And in Kalah's latest post, even he is having difficulty making it through the missions - and as someone else pointed out, game breaking bugs are still around, savegames can all be lost from sync problems with Uplay, etc.

Really don't understand how Ubisoft stays in business.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 20 2015, 20:26

cjlee wrote:Really don't understand how Ubisoft stays in business.


By giving them a second chance. :lol:
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 21 2015, 4:01

Panda Tar wrote:
cjlee wrote:Really don't understand how Ubisoft stays in business.


By giving them a second chance. :lol:



These people have had many second chances already.

Changes in me (as I get older) make me pretty confident that I can indeed stop gaming permanently if Heroes VII is not fully patched before the next installation (be it paid for DLC or a full expansion) comes out.

Let me announce to the world at large so that I can have crowdsourced help in stopping my gaming...

If Ubisoft rolls out a paying installment, expansion, or any paying DLC before Heroes VII is fully cleaned of game breaking bugs, I will cease all involvement with the Heroes franchise. For anyone annoyed with my posts in the past, that means I will give up my celestialheavens membership and never come back here again, plus of course wash my hands of anything Heroes and never bother with it again as long as Ubisoft owns the franchise.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby parcaleste » Nov 21 2015, 14:20

So dramatic... Like Screwbi cares. ;)

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby markkur » Nov 21 2015, 18:06

I've not bought the game and will probably not. But I'm coming from a "slightly" different perspective than most posts I read here. Unlike, most here, I play few other games. The HOMM series (can't remember the silly other) is my game and an equal part of that game has been map-making. H5 was NOT user friendly as I had come to expect from the "Title" and then when H6 came out " I was told personally "that I would be pleased". What came out was worse than the H5 Editor debacle! Now, here were are at H7 and do we have anything like an Editor from H3 or 4? No. We have a few people assisted by programmers trying to work in the thing. I enjoy equally both gaming and map-making and I cannot easily do both. Eos.

As far as negativity, there is a fact about people on-line. Most people seem to post when angry and not when happy. i.e. As an H5 map-maker I would hear about my broken-wand but not much about my "displayed-magic". It was not until my maps were not available for a time that I started hearing from folks that "really like my maps" or "play no other"...all of that sort of sentiment. It seems to me that's how most folks must be today...long on criticism...short of praise.

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 21 2015, 19:13

markkur wrote:As far as negativity, there is a fact about people on-line. Most people seem to post when angry and not when happy. i.e. As an H5 map-maker I would hear about my broken-wand but not much about my "displayed-magic". It was not until my maps were not available for a time that I started hearing from folks that "really like my maps" or "play no other"...all of that sort of sentiment. It seems to me that's how most folks must be today...long on criticism...short of praise.


That's quite true. I remember when I was a younger man, a lot more enthusiastic about the things in the world than I am now. If I liked something I would post about it. If I felt something was worth buying, or trying out, or experimenting with, I talked about it.

Along the way I got tired. You see, most people do get suspicious if you sound too happy. I got many comments about having an agenda, and maybe being paid to promote something. And as I got older I just didn't care anymore to talk about what I like.

In any case there is no computer game in the world that I like enough to lose even 5 minutes of sleep over. Seems that the old days when Worms and Tetris were 'perfect' games that rarely ever hung, are over. Nowadays games are so complex it seems you can't play them without encountering game breaking bugs and blue screens of death and 'program not responding' messages...

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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 21 2015, 19:40

markkur wrote: It seems to me that's how most folks must be today...long on criticism...short of praise.


I think it intensifies when factual problems become too frequent, repeating over the years, forcing its way into normality. I'm using Ubisoft as an example of lack of tact and quality competence.For a company such as that, they don't need praise, because it would naturally reflect on their sales. But it seems they can afford criticism, for all the good that pseudo-praise did to them.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Kalah » Nov 22 2015, 0:39

It's 1:39 a.m. and I have played since dinner time.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby Panda Tar » Nov 22 2015, 0:44

Have you checked if Nadir's (necromancer) ability is working for you? And check if heroes are not forgetting skills and spells as well. If it happens, avoid reloading other save games before a fix.
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Re: So is this game worth buying?

Postby cjlee » Nov 22 2015, 1:31

Panda Tar wrote:
markkur wrote: It seems to me that's how most folks must be today...long on criticism...short of praise.


I think it intensifies when factual problems become too frequent, repeating over the years, forcing its way into normality. I'm using Ubisoft as an example of lack of tact and quality competence.For a company such as that, they don't need praise, because it would naturally reflect on their sales. But it seems they can afford criticism, for all the good that pseudo-praise did to them.


Yea... if Ubisoft's default is to be extremely low quality, then the default commentary on Ubisoft products should be strong criticism and negativity. Nothing wrong with that.


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