Heroes 7 skill system

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.
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cjlee
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Unread postby cjlee » 15 May 2015, 03:29

mr.hackcrag wrote:Eagle Eye is indeed terrible.
It will take wayyyyy too many tweaks to make that a useful ability, but I see some abuse potential thanks to Ubisxxx's stupid hero rehiring system.

EG you can get your low level weakling hero to attack a powerful enemy, the enemy blasts with all kinds of super spells, and the weakling hero dies and gets free teleport back to your castle hero pool at the cost of only $2500 or whatever it costs to rehire him.

Then use mentor or whatever skill available to share your newfound knowledge of Armaggeddon, Hypnotize, etc.

No more need to build high level mage guild. If you can get Armageddon in week 1 and have enough gold, you can creep nearly everything. (Remember that in this Ubisxxx system your hero never really dies, just gets TPed back to the castle, so he can recharge mana by sleeping overnight in the castle's level 1 guild.

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Unread postby parcaleste » 15 May 2015, 05:15

^ I've played the other games, dude. This skill does not work like that. Esp. in the first week.

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Unread postby cjlee » 15 May 2015, 13:19

parcaleste wrote:^ I've played the other games, dude. This skill does not work like that. Esp. in the first week.
Thanks for reminding me. There are 2 things to consider, the eagle eye proficiency and the enemy hero level/ ability to cast spells.

In which case that is even better. (Less abuse)

W1 free lightning bolt and disrupting ray
W2 free fireball and mass slow
W3 free armageddon and hypnotize

And the tradeoff is that you waste precious hero time marching to the gates of the enemy castle while a more conventional player could be levelling up the normal way.

That sounds more balanced to me.

Not to say that eagle eye has suddenly acquired much usefulness. Just that it has become slightly less useless...

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 15 May 2015, 16:53

And now you have Dark and Earth Magic Skills.

Take a deep breath to take the plunge.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 15 May 2015, 19:43

Two main gripes :

1. Too many copy pasta spells - the one's that do x damage at start of turn. Having fewer spells is fine if each one is unique and useful; but there's too much similarity and I'm not sure if every spell will be made valuable to have in book.

2. The abilities are lacking in excitement and possibilities. It feels like leveling up won't bring that much satisfaction in terms of cool strategies and ways to fight battles using a school of magic.

I'm playing this game called Valdis Story - egad, depending how you level up your equipment and abilities completely changes the way the game is played and how your character develops. HoMM looks really lame in comparison.

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Unread postby parcaleste » 16 May 2015, 04:23

[quote="cjlee"][/quote]
Are you trying to convince me that this skill is useful? PLEASE, hide yourself in the closet.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 18 May 2015, 21:46

Exploration, Leadership and Warfare are the next skills explained.

'Explained' is an overstatement.
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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 19 May 2015, 16:51

You can tell they're having trouble coming up with skills when you have grandmaster abilities being copy pasta versions of novice abilities. :disagree: The funny part is that they changed arrangement of the words and I can't help but wonder if that was to make it less obvious it was copy pasta. :|

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Unread postby cjlee » 21 May 2015, 18:38

cjlee wrote: Not to say that eagle eye has suddenly acquired much usefulness. Just that it has become slightly less useless...
You seem to imagine that I want to convince you of something. I'm trying to find ways to make the best of a bad situation. Because Ubisoft is NOT going to give us great playable and balanced skills. They will give us crap as usual and we have to do what we can.

If you have played H2 and h3, you would understand the inevitability of Eagle Eye. Like it or not, you often have no choice. Do you really want to hire and dismiss? 2500 gold down the drain on day 1, not my style at all.

So I'm mentally preparing that in future I'll be playing heroes with eagle eye again... always wind up with crap like that because I prefer magic heroes.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 28 May 2015, 18:09

"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 29 May 2015, 06:52

Prime looks most interesting magic school so far. I like the field manipulation effects.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 06 Jun 2015, 04:51

"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 20 Jun 2015, 18:43

No one care about necro skills?

http://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skills-necromancy

I don't. I just want to get to the next tier post monster.

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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 03 Jul 2015, 21:26

Now sylvan skills are up as well as creature skills.

https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/ ... -s-revenge

Art looks so much better than 3d models. :(

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Unread postby parcaleste » 04 Jul 2015, 05:51

I am so NOT excited about this game... it's scary. And really disappointing.

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Unread postby markkur » 04 Jul 2015, 11:08

I'm not constantly reviewing information about H7, for me, I've got to wait till I see what comes from the factory since they are at a stage when ideas are not entertained (and It appears confirmed in this thread) and do an eval then.

But for grins;

About losing Heroes in battles. I don't mind a Hero escaping in open ground, especially later game because secondary Heroes are so weak. But in a siege? Jail the hero and put a "gold ransom" on their head. People talk about H3 as if everything was right about the game, but seeing major defeated Heroes show in taverns was pretty gamey. though I made use of it. I did not hold a summit meeting with a bunch of other players and decide how to proceed; I played the game and squeezed it, like I think most players do. Once I started making maps and found the tick-boxes I stopped that Jazz, (you can make sure only a player# can hire the faction Heroes)

But H5's was too strong of correction. I wanted 2 Heroes of my faction instead of being a Knight and getting to choose between a Barb and a Necro.
But I know some people love that stuff...right?

The skillwheel? I enjoy H5 and still do but I never liked that bit. The fewer menus I have playing this game the better. <imo> There should be SEVERAL set-paths and the player chooses his/her path. Throw in some "chance-based" off-hand quirks for flavor and I'm good to go.

Back to the front-porch.

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Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 04 Jul 2015, 18:19

Jailing captured heroes has been requested a lot. :creative:

In H5 it was usually a bad decision to mix heroes with a different faction because of the racial stuff. That still remains and I'd like more feasibility to mix heroes with additional penalties/bonuses and mechanics that allow new ways to play the game.

I liked the H4 style of giving you bonuses and titles for choosing specific skill combinations.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 06 Jul 2015, 21:43

markkur wrote: About losing Heroes in battles. I don't mind a Hero escaping in open ground, especially later game because secondary Heroes are so weak. But in a siege? Jail the hero and put a "gold ransom" on their head. People talk about H3 as if everything was right about the game, but seeing major defeated Heroes show in taverns was pretty gamey.
That's what I liked in Heroes 4, prisons. It made defending towns a little more interesting, given you didn't want those troublesome heroes wandering about anymore.
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Unread postby markkur » 07 Jul 2015, 07:45

Those are good thoughts gentlemen.

I kept thinking about the Hero and rehiring bit and it occurred to me that a nice variety might be sweet?

Defeat a siege and "say" one of three things happens, 55% = the Hero dies in the battle. 35% = The Hero surrenders & can be bought at a high price "at some point in the game" and 10% = the said Hero thinks you're such an awesome leader he joins your side outright. :D

ps and allow more than eight Heroes. If it's a huge map and 14 towns it is silly to not be able to protect them. Unless of course you want it implement a Garrison-commander system. Yeah right.

oh..."Skillwheel"...staying on topic.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 07 Jul 2015, 13:32

markkur wrote: oh..."Skillwheel"...staying on topic.
That was something that could point towards Skill as well, I think. Say that you hero is skilled in Diplomacy or War Strategies. It could influence the destiny of defeated opposing hero in many ways, and also his own fate as well. The default result of battles would be defeated, flee, surrendered. But as you would master certain skills, more outcomes could be presented in due course for both sides. What would you think on that matter, markkur-san?
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