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The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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BB Shockwave
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Postby BB Shockwave » Feb 26 2015, 22:04

Groovy wrote:
BB Shockwave wrote:You don't need various sub-races when you already have SPECIES diversity... in a world of orcs, elves, dwarves, humans, dark elves, halflings... people can hardly complain about it being "'whites only". That's like saying "Romulans are white only" - no they aren't, they are Romulans. :D

Perhaps if every character in Middle Earth were black, it would strike you as odd and in need of more variety?


You are probably American, so it might be a shocking reveal to you... the various human races don't originate from the same continents, y'know. ;) It makes sense that in a fantasy world where races don't mix as much as they do now that we have ships and plans that can get you from one end of the world to the other in days. You cannot just hop on the back of Smaug and ask him to take you from Gondor to Umbar. :)
PLus, we do have variety - we have humans, hobbits, dwarves, and many races of elves (of course it might be argued they are more like separate elf families, considering their longevity) and various races and sub-races of orcs from small goblins to huge uruk-hai.

In LOTR, we do have black people - they live in the south, in Harad. Not many of them live in the places where the story took place, though.
Last edited by BB Shockwave on Feb 26 2015, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby BB Shockwave » Feb 26 2015, 22:05

mr.hackcrag wrote:The hourglass was a nice touch. The bat/lizard wings however are not so smart. I like that their art style has always incorporated a bit of humor as well and you can kind of see it in that slack-jawed adorable face.


I think it tries to emulate Death from the Discworld books, or rather the movies made of the books. :)

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Postby Pitsu » Feb 27 2015, 11:48

BB Shockwave wrote:You are probably American, ...


He is from South Africa, and therefore probably knows about the topic more than anyone else on the board. :devil:

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Postby Panda Tar » Feb 27 2015, 15:39

BB Shockwave wrote:PLus, we do have variety - we have humans, hobbits, dwarves, and many races of elves (of course it might be argued they are more like separate elf families, considering their longevity) and various races and sub-races of orcs from small goblins to huge uruk-hai.


And the human-like races are white (elves, dwarves, hobbits, humans). The Haradrin almost don't appear and they are said to be more sun-bathed, not that they are truly dark-skinned.

And he's as Pitsu said, from SA. Where this issue is pretty much well-known.
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Postby Groovy » Feb 27 2015, 16:43

Thank you, Pitsu, though I promise I wasn't going to claim that much credit. :embarrased:

I actually grew up in a purely white environment of a Croatian village before emigrating to a highly racially diverse urban environment of South Africa. It was this change that brought racial issues into sharp focus for me.

BB Shockwave wrote:
Groovy wrote:Perhaps if every character in Middle Earth were black, it would strike you as odd and in need of more variety?


You are probably American, so it might be a shocking reveal to you... the various human races don't originate from the same continents, y'know. ;) It makes sense that in a fantasy world where races don't mix as much as they do now that we have ships and plans that can get you from one end of the world to the other in days. You cannot just hop on the back of Smaug and ask him to take you from Gondor to Umbar. :)
PLus, we do have variety - we have humans, hobbits, dwarves, and many races of elves (of course it might be argued they are more like separate elf families, considering their longevity) and various races and sub-races of orcs from small goblins to huge uruk-hai.

In LOTR, we do have black people - they live in the south, in Harad. Not many of them live in the places where the story took place, though.

I asked that question because I was curious whether you are genuinely indifferent to the racial composition of fantasy worlds, or whether this depends on which races they are composed of. Many people I know share the view you've described, but only until they encounter racial composition that they are either unfamiliar or uncomfortable with.

As I tried to explain in my previous post, I don't think it really matters whether we can justify such a world. It's easy enough to do - by basing it on European history rather than, say, Egyptian or South Asian. The question that matters to me is whether a fantasy world that lacks racial diversity is the richer for it.

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Postby Groovy » Feb 27 2015, 16:56

Panda Tar wrote:People seem to feel other people colors exotic, as if they were a completely different race. I like Game of Thrones because it's very 'realistic' in that matter. There are many different people. Well, it can also be so because there are not other things such as elves, dwarves; then it's rather difficult judging if those races should exist, the author would describe humans more poorly - which makes me wonder back to the first statement. Are these additional races being used as substitutes of those 'exotic' people?

I don't know if we can generalise here. It probably depends on the individual author/designer. Ursula le Guin's world of Earthsea is also very racially diverse but lacks variety of species. The Barbarian faction lineup from HoMM 1, on the other hand, has the full spectrum of both species and races. Heroic will too... :)

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Postby Panda Tar » Feb 27 2015, 16:59

:D

I was basically using the example of LotR. I truly don't remember anytime when they said "dark-skinned elf" or "slant-eyed hobbit", for example. ^^

Well, let's focus on Heroic then. :-D
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Feb 27 2015, 23:07

Panda Tar wrote:I truly don't remember anytime when they said "dark-skinned elf"


Even Dark Elves aren't dark skinned. ;|

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Postby parcaleste » Feb 28 2015, 5:18

^ Because it is their souls that are dark. :proud:

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Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 21 2015, 11:24

parcaleste wrote:^ Because it is their souls that are dark. :proud:


Then they should have been called Emo Elves...
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Postby parcaleste » Mar 21 2015, 17:29

Emos souls are not dark, they are just... confused. The fluckers.

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Postby BB Shockwave » Mar 23 2015, 0:32

Panda Tar wrote:
BB Shockwave wrote:PLus, we do have variety - we have humans, hobbits, dwarves, and many races of elves (of course it might be argued they are more like separate elf families, considering their longevity) and various races and sub-races of orcs from small goblins to huge uruk-hai.


And the human-like races are white (elves, dwarves, hobbits, humans). The Haradrin almost don't appear and they are said to be more sun-bathed, not that they are truly dark-skinned.

And he's as Pitsu said, from SA. Where this issue is pretty much well-known.


No, they are not "white"... or are you seriously saying we have caucasian elves and dwarves and hobbits? They are a totally different SPECIES.

But since you really want to come up with an explanation for this...
ever wonder why, say, all the characters in anime like Sailor Moon or Naruto are all Japanese? Well, maybe because they are made IN and FOR Japanese people. Similarly, western European games happen to be made for european people. Immigration aside, that still mostly includes caucasians. If a game would be made in Africa, I would not ever complain that all the characters are african, or that a Chinese game would not have any caucasian characters. Heck, check Japanese fantasy games - even their elves look Japanese. It's as simply as that. Tolkien was a british writer, and the illustrators who worked on LOTR were british too, hence why the illustrations feature "white" elves or dwarves.

It's rare if a writer goes out of his/her way to specify the race's description as different. Such include the Martian chronicles by Burroughs - with the many red, green, white Martian races being pretty much nothing like any species on earth, in skin color and build. Or the Earthsea novels, where the main characters all have a look similar to north american indians.

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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 23 2015, 14:18

BB Shockwave wrote:No, they are not "white"... or are you seriously saying we have caucasian elves and dwarves and hobbits? They are a totally different SPECIES.


I know they are different species. But they are all white, nonetheless. Haven't seen black hobbits, black elves, black dwarves. Not that it really matters, anyway. The stories won't change. It just shows a lack of diversity for any reason the author thought most suitable.
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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 25 2015, 21:24

You may now vote for the new designs for Lich HERE.

And Vampires, HERE
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Postby BB Shockwave » Mar 26 2015, 1:22

This is ridiculous. Basically all three vampries look the same, elves in spikey armor. I voted for the last one, 'cause a vampire with a sword is just isn't the right vampire for HOMM - that one at least looks more feral and has a collar.

The liches are a bit more varied, though there was not much to consider for me, voted for the Undead Sorcerer - liches should be skeletal, like they have been since HOMMII.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Mar 26 2015, 1:44

Chose vamp with no sword. If he somehow ends up with sword in final render, I'm going to rage.

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Postby Kenshinzen » Mar 30 2015, 12:03

BB Shockwave wrote:... 'cause a vampire with a sword is just isn't the right vampire for HOMM - that one at least looks more feral and has a collar.


vampires had a sword in HOMM V if I remember correctly. :devil:

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Postby Galaad » Mar 30 2015, 12:14

Kenshinzen wrote:vampires had a sword in HOMM V if I remember correctly. :devil:

h5 was set in Ashan, or so it would seem, lol

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Postby Darkström » Mar 30 2015, 18:08

I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the Stronghold lineup. The creatures are not that badly overdesigned (comparatively speaking) and there's some nice variety.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Mar 30 2015, 20:35

I am also relatively happy about the direction they took stronkhold because it has an excellent theme without being too race-based, has diversity, and represents the biggest departure from previous versions in H5&6 (where all the other factions are mostly copy pasta).

Art style could be better, but there is much worse in H7 comparatively.

Overall, I'd rate this as the best conceptual faction created so far. 8|


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