The World

Forum for discussing the Heroic tabletop game

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Groovy
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Postby Groovy » Mar 18 2015, 5:45

Thanks! The only thing I could think of was Opening Post, which didn't make a whole lot of sense.

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Postby Sleeping_Sun » Mar 20 2015, 9:33

Thanks for the replies.
OP usually stands for Over Powered.
Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry, for the confusion.

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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 26 2015, 20:00

Groovy, I'm making a faction suggestion in HC and I'm going to make my skill wheel using this: http://mashupforge.com

More to learn a bit about this tool.

This is what Marzhin used to create his map showing Ashan. I think we could use that mashupforge-thing to arrange things for Heroic as well, even if only temporarily, also being reasonably interesting to be added to the Wikia, for reference, to many different subjects, including mechanics, in a more interactive way, different from edited material fit for printed media.

What do you think?
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby Groovy » Mar 27 2015, 5:18

Based on my very limited exposure to the tool, it looks like it basically takes a background image and adds makers to it. Both are highly customisable. To use it for Heroic maps, we'd have to create the terrain images elsewhere and import them into the tool. We'd probably also have to create some of the markers. It looks simple enough.

I can see how it could be used for a skill wheel, but not mechanics. I'll have to ponder it some more... (or you can explain :))

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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 27 2015, 13:30

It would mainly be used similarly to a flowchart.

For example, to explain which actions a unit can take on a turn, you make the background showing the flowchart: UNIT -> attack, defend, cast spell, move, wait, block, etc. Then you can place icons on those topics and write hints on them. As you can group them by any sort of classification you want, you can group actions by kind of unit, or by group of abilities - I cannot really help much further given that I don't know much of mechanics, but that's the idea behind it.

Let's see an example as we see in Heroes 4:

Hero
|
V
Attack -> melee | ranged -> melee skill | archery skill
Defend -> melee | ranged -> combat skill | magic resistance
Wait
Move

You show that your hero, in battle has 4 actions. Attacks, Defends, Waits or Moves. When attacking, mechanics indicate you can perform a melee attack (which will work like this and that) or a ranged attack (works like this and that). The melee attack has another linked mechanic which is the melee skill from the Combat set (then explains how that skill affects melee damage); same for ranged and archery skill.

Is that clear? :D

Actually, you can pretty much well do that on other platforms and programs, flowcharts, links and lots of text boxes. I suggested that mashupforge because you can clutter it with icons and only see text if you click on them and toggle to show and hide what you don't want to see, if you happen to wish, for example, seeing only what's related to Attack. Although the background won't disappear, you'll at least have in evidence the icons of your interest.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby Groovy » Mar 29 2015, 21:36

Thank you, Panda, it is pretty clear.

The remaining questions from me have to do with how effectively the related maps/documents can be hyperlinked, and how accessible they are outside of Mashupforge. I guess I'll have to play around with it to find out. Or you can. :)

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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 30 2015, 14:20

I'm not sure about hyperlinks. What We could see there, though, was by seeing how Marzhin made his map. I'll try linking his map here later. Right now, that Council blog is a bit slow.

There are images illustrating the links. Perhaps hyperlinks can follow that same procedure. But that I'll have to confirm.

Here, I think this image explains a bit.

And here's Marzhin's map!
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby Groovy » May 20 2015, 20:26

Watching my kids potter around in Minecraft, I'm getting increasingly tempted to create the world of Heroic in it. It would probably be very time-consuming, but a lot more tangible than a map.

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Re: The World

Postby Groovy » Oct 14 2015, 9:13

I’ve spent some time recently pondering the geography of the Heroic land and how it could be made to work in the absence of celestial objects like the stars. That is, how it could experience diurnal, seasonal and other cycles and so give the people something to structure their cultures around. Furthermore, how it could craft a world rich in sound, colour and texture that feels truly magical.

A week ago I’ve hit upon a promising idea. It is centred on what I previously described as a heat cycle, but now think of more as a life force / vitality cycle. It is a cycle that ensures that the world’s vitality (need a proper name here) is distributed throughout the land so that all of it undergoes periodic rejuvenation.

Mountains are the centrepiece of this process. They drive the flow of vitality, and they use the vitality to nourish the landscape around them. They do this by transforming the vitality into a form that is compatible with the local terrain. For example, a desert mountain would transform it into dry heat and sand, while a swamp one into mud and slime. In this way, mountains sustain and even propagate the surrounding landscape.

The flow of vitality works as follows:
  • A mountain absorbs vitality until the pressure inside it builds up to such an extent that it bursts open
  • As it bursts open, it shoots out a pressurised ball of matter, which disintegrates when it reaches high into the sky
  • After it bursts open, the mountain starts radiating vitality out until it is depleted
  • Once depleted, it closes again
This completes one cycle.

Areas with greater concentration of mountains are able to absorb vitality faster and so undergo shorter cycles, leading to more frequent rejuvenation of the surrounding landscape. The landscape automatically benefits from the mountain containing more vitality. Consequently, the vitality cycle gives rise to a local seasonal cycle:
  • Mountain absorbing vitality = spring (the land is sprouting and blossoming, and generally coming to life)
  • Mountain bursts open = summer (the season peak)
  • Mountain radiating vitality = autumn (the land is fruiting before going into slumber or dying)
  • Mountain closes = winter (the season trough)
The ball of material that a mountain shoots out is rich with embryonic matter representative of the creatures that inhabit that region. This matter is encased in soil, slime, ice, water, etc, depending on the region’s terrain. The mountain both rejuvenates the local habitat and helps it expand by shooting out this ball of matter high into the sky where it disintegrates before falling back to the surface over a wide area.

An interesting feature that arises from this model is that excessive expansion of a particular habitat is detrimental to it. This is because a habitat needs what other habitats provide in order to function. For example, embryonic matter from a forest habitat needs light, heat and water while in the sky, and it can also benefit from additional nutrition supplied by mud and slime. All of these are provided by non-forest habitats. In this way, if a habitat expands to take over others, it will eventually become unable to rejuvenate itself and will shrink again.


I know that this is different from what you had in mind, Panda, but I tried to incorporate the idea of balance into the model. I'd love to know what you think of it.

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Re: The World

Postby Panda Tar » Oct 14 2015, 9:34

That's all right. I just wake up, but I'll have a rushy day today. Be back here more at night, I think. ^^
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Re: The World

Postby Groovy » Oct 15 2015, 7:23

If we do go with this model, an important question that arises is how closely we should tailor it to the behaviour of the Earth model. For example, we could go with a single massive mountain in the centre of the land that shoots out lava, which dwarfs all other mountain projectiles and illuminates the whole land. This mountain's vitality cycle would then be roughly equivalent to an Earth day. The other mountain cycles would essentially be embedded within this one, and would enrich it without fundamentally changing it.

An alternative is to not have a dominant mountain, but distribute them relatively evenly across the land (and sea floor). This would give rise to a complicated calendar where some days might not have a sun-like object to illuminate them, and some might have several. The days with no sun might be completely dark, or they might rely on alternative sources of light, such as firefly-like twinkles of light shot out by frost mountains. The days could also vary in duration, and could work quite differently in different geographical locations.

I must admit that I'm growing increasingly tempted to go with the latter. On one hand, it would be alien to readers/players and challenging to use correctly. On the other, it has potential for creating very rich lore, which would make it very rewarding to use.


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