What are you looking for in a map?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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Grumpy Old Wizard
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What are you looking for in a map?

Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 04 Oct 2008, 14:51

What are the things that you find most enjoyable in a map? What things tend to irritate you in some maps? What do you wish map makers would do more of or do less of? Any other input for map makers?
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Asheera
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Unread postby Asheera » 04 Oct 2008, 15:42

Well I don't like very rich maps. Rich means all of the following:

1) Too many resources
2) Too much gold
3) Too many artifacts
4) Too many Map Locations that improve Hero's primary stats.
5) Too many Luck/Morale boosters on the map. I hate it when you can get (on some maps) a lot of luck just by visiting some map locations which are even close to each other!

I also like to have several low level dwellings on the map, to make the low level units more useful :D
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Elvin
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Unread postby Elvin » 04 Oct 2008, 15:52

Let's see..

First of all I wish for good balance.
Meaning that you cannot be rushed week 2-3 by fast factions. Also that the battle will not be beyond week 4-5 after which might faction's strength increases while destructive and summoning become less important.

I like player controlled garrisons as they make the game more fun, however I don't want them to be too powerful. Many require that you get light for resurrection, why would you have to get it to pass a garrison?

I like relatively rich maps but in a way that both players benefit. I hate the idea that the first to get in the middle gains everything. Yes there should still be something but not of gamebreaking importance.

I like tough creeping maps but not extremely hard. For instance on fiur's art of war some heroes can creep almost all mines while others will have to wait, 40 tier 3 is insane. In such cases I prefer that you get some joiners, artifact, sphinx or some other boost to help you along.

I like fast-paced gameplay, having something to do in each turn but not the map being TOO crowded. That means no overabundance in neutrals or artifacts. The more neutrals the longer the turns, the more artifacts better the chance that someone will get an insane combination.

I enjoy good aesthetics. One great example of well designed map is master of disguise or abysmal made by fiur. Some maps just have this magical feeling.

While not required scripts can make a game so much more interesting. Like Mellizod's school or insatiable's rat race. In the latter I enjoy the feeling of haste, you must play fast to gain those bonuses :)

Finally(I think :tongue:) I like a good map design. So that there are more than one routes and dilemmas along the way but without being overcomplicated. For instance I am not in the mood to memorize all the portals in a map like battlezone, I prefer simpler maps.
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John.Galt
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Unread postby John.Galt » 04 Oct 2008, 16:07

It sounds from their comments that you're talking about multiplayer, not singleplayer, but I'll give both.

Multi:
1. Very Rich Map (:-P To Asheera) I like big battles with lots of troops
2. Memory Mentor for every faction - if you can't get the build you want, it frequently can ruin the game, and that's just a matter of dumb luck
3. Choke points - Once you capture an area, it bothers me if you are so vulnerable. Frequently I've played games where my army easily decimates theirs, but they run around with leaders with 1-2 weeks of troops, and mine can't kill them because they're running in opposite directions
4. Lots of towns - At least 2-3 per faction playing. At least 4 factions, preferably 6 or 8.
5. Underground. I almost universally do not play maps without undergrounds.
6. Some massive treasure (Grail, artifact set, etc.) that is in the direct center of the map, with equal opportunity to all players of getting it.

Single:
1. Good story line. The rest is largely irrelevant. Big battles also are nice.
Edit: 2. Your main character should not really know what's going to happen to him. It's not a story if he knows what's going to happen.
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Kristo
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Unread postby Kristo » 04 Oct 2008, 21:43

I totally disagree with John.Galt's points 1 and 3. :) I like maps where the players have something besides towns to fight over. Mines aren't self-sufficient, so you have to post a hero nearby if you want to hang onto them. And that leads right into choke points - my favorite maps don't have them. No choke points means you have play defense as well as offense. It also means that you're not done if you're forced out of your starting area. I've had a lot of fun trading castles with the AI, upgrading my troop set in the process.

OTOH, it seems from your other threads that you want to make an H5 map, so it really doesn't matter what I think. :D
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Wolfsburg
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Unread postby Wolfsburg » 04 Oct 2008, 23:36

Since I only play multiplayer nowadays, my map demmands are normally more headed toward ballance issues, and good hindering of luck-factor as a main determinant for triumph. A well developed map tests above everything your skill as a player and tactician, by means of forcing you to pick tough fights and minimizing losses at the same time, to overrun your opponent.

Elvin basically exposed word by word what I expect from a map, and chose insanely well-made maps to acurately exemplify his points. But there are somethings he may have overlooked.

I also love for instance, when the challenge rate raises at logical pace, allowing your hero to have plenty of action from day one and to accomplish something almost every round instead of waiting weeks and weeks for reinforcements doing circles around your hometown. Thats also the case of "The Abysmal" by Fiur.

Opposite to Elvin though, I like memory mentors in some situations. Specially in larger maps such as Genesis by Jinxer. But not in every map, since developing your char is also an aspect of strategy.

What I DON'T like is overdecorated maps. I think this game is already colorful and cheerful enough without having shiny decorative structures everywhere to obstruct your vision and paralel repetitive neutral fights and noises. I prefer those which tend to be more simple and easy to navigate.

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blizzardboy
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Unread postby blizzardboy » 05 Oct 2008, 14:51

Short version: I like my maps to be awesome.

Relative symmetry in each player's respective start locations in order to minimize partiality. I prefer for multiple map-creeping strategies to be available rather than a single route that is guaranteed to be better everytime. For example, on Former Friends, going for the middle is unquestionably much better than completely creeping your own area.
Although I enjoy symmetry and balance for the players, I also enjoy a diverse landscape with many modes of transportation to add to strategy on the adventure map itself. The Art of Strategy, for example, has land, teleporters, and naval aspects to it- that makes it a fun map.
For multiplayer, I like the maps to be large enough that you can choose the non-rush based heroes and not be screwed from it. If a map is quick enough that choosing a rush hero is the best idea hands down, that makes it lame and narrows your options, and I like having lots of options.
Moderation of gold & resources is also important, simply because of balance reasons. Certain factions like Academy or Haven (especially Haven) operate on having lots of materials in order to maximize their abilities, so if you make gold and resources over-abundant, you are giving certain factions an extra advantage that doesn't help out factions such as Stronghold as much. This also means you don't want gold and resources to be too scarce.
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godlyatheist
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Unread postby godlyatheist » 07 Oct 2008, 04:49

I like maps that can be made to not have 75 assasin/sprites etc guarding wood/ore, it totally ruins the game for some faction. Big neutral stacks are welcome but not so big that you have to resort to lame tactics. Things like horde's of archangel/magna dragon as choke points has little effect on some faction while others get stomped till they get the "imba-combo" so they can get through without serious loss.

Single town, single utopia/mage vault/pyramid, level 1-3 neutral dwelling, double wood/ore, single gem/sulfur/crystal/mercury, oh and all grass.

Single town- might factions don't get out of control with creatures after a month, magic factions has a chance to get screwed with spells

single utopia etc - limit the chance of getting all the spells

level 1-3 dwelling - all factions can get their powercreeping lowbie creature and avoid imbalance like hunter vs minatour.

resources- wood and ore for factions that require more than usual, limiting other stuff to one generator keeps balance

grass- heroes is slow enough as is, let's not make it even slower with movement penalty


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