Game mechanics questions

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
jwallstone
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Aug 2008

Game mechanics questions

Unread postby jwallstone » 21 Aug 2008, 06:13

Hello, I am a relatively new player and was wondering if anyone could help answer some gameplay mechanics questions. I have read through the Fans manual (great job by the way) and I don't think these questions are answered there.

1. If a hero is defeated in a battle (without retreating/surrenduring), are they permanently dead? Can they no longer be recruited from the tavern?

1.5. I noticed the script function "MakeHeroReturnToTavernAfterDeath" which would seem to address question 1. If I wanted to make a map where heroes didn't die, do I have to call this for every single hero, or is there a shortcut for all heroes?

2. Can anyone explain how the crystal dragon's prismatic breath works? Is it simply like Chain Lightning where the number of targets depends on luck, or does it "pick" a specific direction, in which case I should angle the attack to achieve some maximum possible effect.

3. Is a morale ATB effect multiplicative or additive with other effects? For example, if I have the full Archer's Dream set, where shooters only lose 70% ATB, and the shooter gets a morale trigger, do they go to 80% ATB (30+50) or 65% (30+35)? I tested this, and it appears like they move almost immediately again, so I'm guessing it's the former.

4. Are the Attack and Defense skills additive or multiplicative with each other and Attack/Defense stats? I.e. if a creature with a 10% bonus from the Attack skill and 10% from having 2 more attack stat than the defense of the defender, and then a 20% reduction from the Defense skill, what happens? And what value is doubled by luck? The final damage value?

5. I'm confused by a lot of the skill/ability descriptions. For example, does Gate Master bring an additional 20% of the original stack, or increases the gating percent by 20% (i.e. with expert gating =40%, this only increases it to 48%). Likewise, there are other skills that are similarly vague.

Sorry for the number of questions. Some of these may be nitpicky, but I like this game and would like to understand how it works a little more clearly. Thanks in advance to any help from anyone!

jwallstone
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Aug 2008

Unread postby jwallstone » 21 Aug 2008, 06:46

One more question:

6. Does the AI hire creatures to use in buildings like the Necropolis Shrine of the Netherworld or Dungeon's Ritual Pit? Also, do they use Haven's training?

User avatar
Asheera
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4506
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: The Shadows
Contact:

Unread postby Asheera » 21 Aug 2008, 09:56

1. Permanently Dead, yes

1.5 Don't know of any shortcut

2. It picks a RANDOM direction so you can't plan anything. That means, you may hit only one target or a lot, depending on the direction it went.

3. ATB is a value between 0 and 1. When they only lose "70%" ATB it's simply reset to 0.3 instead of 0.0. Morale bonuses make the ATB increase by 0.5, so yes it's like the former.

4. Attack Skill doesn't have anything to do with the Attack property of the creatures. It simply increases the damage output by 5%, after the creature's damage is scaled using the Attack/Defense of the creature/target. The same with the Defense skill.

5. This is explained in the Fan Manual, and I think it said that Gate Master is additive.

6. No clue about these, but I think it uses training.
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

User avatar
Grumpy Old Wizard
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 2205
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Tower Grump

Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 21 Aug 2008, 13:02

The AI does use training, or at least did in previous patches. I'd bet it uses the Shrine of the Netherworld but I'm doubtful that it uses the Ritual Pit.

You could make a test map and observe the necromancer's behavior fairly easily to see if he converts non-necro troops.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

User avatar
Lord Lakely
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1740
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: The Eleventh Dimension....

Unread postby Lord Lakely » 21 Aug 2008, 14:51

AI DOES use training (1 k of Marksmen, come again?)

I never saw it use the Shrine of the Netherworld though.

There is a small chance that I would use the Ritual Pit. The AI usually NEVER disbands/sacrefices units, expect if it gives an INSTANT amount of units with a higher powerrating. This may be wrong, but that's how I've experienced it.

jwallstone
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Aug 2008

Unread postby jwallstone » 21 Aug 2008, 15:12

Thanks for all your help, guys. I will try making a test map to figure out about the Ritual Pit. If I take over the town, do I still get accumulated growth benefits?

Given that the crystal dragon's special is so unpredictable and hard to control, is the emerald dragon generally considered the better choice? (It seems to have better stats too)

Also, the fan manual wasn't very clear on the gating issue.

User avatar
Asheera
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4506
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: The Shadows
Contact:

Unread postby Asheera » 21 Aug 2008, 15:16

jwallstone wrote:Also, the fan manual wasn't very clear on the gating issue.
The manual says (for Nymus, which specializes in Gating - +1% more gated troops per level):
Gating bonuses are additive. For example, at level 15 (+15%) with Expert Gating (+40%) and Gate Master (+20%), gating troops represent 40+20+15=75% of the calling troops.
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

jwallstone
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Aug 2008

Unread postby jwallstone » 21 Aug 2008, 15:39

Ah, I stand corrected, I did not see that. However, that information is still hard to find when trying to figure out gating, stuck in a hero description rather than anywhere that the gating abilities are described.

User avatar
Asheera
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4506
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Location: The Shadows
Contact:

Unread postby Asheera » 21 Aug 2008, 16:02

Hmm, you're right and I agree with you. Don't know why they placed that Gating info there.
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

jwallstone
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Aug 2008

Unread postby jwallstone » 22 Aug 2008, 23:52

After some testing, it looks like the AI does not use either the Shrine of the Netherworld or the Ritual Pit. They were given access to plenty of creatures from other factions, and just carried them around with all the morale penalties.

This is a bit disappointing, as it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to code. And it potentially puts Dungeon and Necropolis AI at a slight disadvantage, both because of the lost opportunity for more troops but also the morale penalties of keeping all those troops. I HAVE seen AI use artifacts for Academy, favored creatures for Sylvan, runes for Fortress, etc. I'm not entirely sure about Training. I'd probably have to do a more accurate count of creature numbers, but that's harder to do with creeping losses etc. But basically it looks like Necropolis and Dungeon got something of a shaft by the programmers in this regard.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Unread postby Elvin » 23 Aug 2008, 09:16

AI sucks badly regardless, only cases I have played single in the past one and a half years are for creeping. If you get used to the AI's patterns for a while then it has no chance even with the ridiculous bonuses it gets.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 40 guests