Was anybody else disappointed with the Barbarian faction?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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blizzardboy
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Was anybody else disappointed with the Barbarian faction?

Postby blizzardboy » Aug 17 2008, 22:33

Back in Heroes 3, and even Heroes 2, I liked the Barbarian faction and thought it was lots of fun. But Heroes 4 kind of made the Barbarian faction sort of the red-headed step child of heroes. The other 5 factions had their fair share of commonalities, but the Might faction was completely different than the other 5 by not having any spells and instead having a higher production and very buff heroes. I didn't like it. I know in many fantasy games, the barbarians are the "anti-magic" type of people, but Heroes is it's own fantasy game and if barbarians want to have magic, like they did in Heroes 2 and 3, why can't they have it? I thought in Heroes 5 the barbarians would go back to being normal again, but they're still the red-headed step child. They don't have any schools of magic, but instead the "shatter schools" and instead of sorcery they have the shouts, which are a completely unique set of spell-like abilities. And as was being discussed in another thread of mine, Barbarian have 11 unique skills, which is far more than any other faction.

I just don't like how barbarian is so abnormal. It breaks the trend. I think they should have magic like everybody else instead of 5 completely unique base skills.

edit: Oh, and another thing. I don't like how orcs and goblins are so messed up now. In Heroes 3 and 2, they were green. Now they're like reddish/brown/poop colored and they have that "demon blood" theme going that make their units look like a cross between a human and a demon.
Last edited by blizzardboy on Aug 17 2008, 22:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby vVrAiTH » Aug 17 2008, 22:41

I miss the thunder birds, good fast striking unit with good mods. I agree with you, they should be able to cast stat benifical spells.

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Postby Elvin » Aug 17 2008, 23:00

That is the reason why they are special and why Ime and so many others enjoy them in the first place. The problem with them is that in lategame you NEED dark against them as they are unbalanced, also lack of alternative effective builds rather than flaming ballista. Otherwise they are a fun and unique faction to play.
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Postby blizzardboy » Aug 18 2008, 0:11

Elvin wrote:That is the reason why they are special and why Ime and so many others enjoy them in the first place. The problem with them is that in lategame you NEED dark against them as they are unbalanced, also lack of alternative effective builds rather than flaming ballista. Otherwise they are a fun and unique faction to play.


Then I feel that they should make all of the factions just as unique from one another as the barbarian faction or not at all. I don't like how there are 7 factions that all follow a fairly common trend and then there's the barbarians that have their own set of skills and a "rage" ability that is completely different among all other troops. I suppose necromancer's have the "undead" quality that makes their units different as well, but that's not as game changing as all know rage is.

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Postby parcaleste » Aug 18 2008, 9:10

You have also the Dungeon's Elemental Vision, which is also really different ability. You have training. The Artificier. And so on. The Orcs are different because they are... different. I didn't like them in the beginning as well, but after that... brrr :S

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Postby vVrAiTH » Aug 18 2008, 11:33

I quite enjoy the elemental skills with dungeon. Ive only just started the campaign. Onto the warlocks now. Quite a unique skill.

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Postby Wolfsburg » Aug 18 2008, 22:44

I actually like the orcs. Ubi made clear statements from the very beggining that they wanted something radically different to pump up the might in this game. I think they were quite sucessful on that one. Blood rage, plus shatter, plus shouts makes them the might faction par excellence.

About the way the units look, I agree with Blizzardboy: they should look more orcish.

But, oh well.

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Postby danhvo » Aug 19 2008, 0:05

I am not disappointed in the Stronghold faction. I do find them very interesting. The problem I have with them is that I think their vulnerability to magic is a huge weakness, not adequately compensated for by various Shatter skills.

Maybe my impression is wrong, so I have this question for you folks out there who are experienced in multi-player games. I know this faction is not shabby against neutrals, but how does it fare against other players? Does anyone duel successfully with this faction?

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Postby darknessfood » Aug 19 2008, 1:06

Well, if you have a buffed barbarian, and he can casts a sh*tload of spells, the problem you get is that they are WAY overpowered. This is because the barbarian has a hight attack and defence skill, if you can buff it up EVEN MORE, it's not fair anymore. To not get that complain, they probably left the magic out a bit and just change it.
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Postby vVrAiTH » Aug 19 2008, 8:17

I would expect a natural magic resist from them. I find the cyclops's appearance rather obscure.

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Postby Akul » Aug 19 2008, 10:41

Now they're like reddish/brown/poop colored and they have that "demon blood" theme going that make their units look like a cross between a human and a demon.


Barbarian in H5 ARE a cross betewen humans and demons.

Then I feel that they should make all of the factions just as unique from one another as the barbarian faction or not at all. I don't like how there are 7 factions that all follow a fairly common trend and then there's the barbarians that have their own set of skills and a "rage" ability that is completely different among all other troops. I suppose necromancer's have the "undead" quality that makes their units different as well, but that's not as game changing as all know rage is.


Other factions might not have so many unique skills like them, but all of them are much more different from oen another then factions in H2 and H3 in which all factions were just a different set of creatures.


On-topic: H12&3 barbarians are a dull faction, like all in those games are. In H4, they are an extremely weak faction. In H5, they are a unique faction with its own features (like all factions in that game are) and they finally feel liek a faction that despises magic.
As for the looks, I like them if for nothign else then for not being green. I am not a fan of green orcs and goblins.
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Postby John.Galt » Aug 19 2008, 14:45

I really have nothing to add to the discussions of Orcs, since I play exclusivly against computers, and usually as Sylvan or Necro, but I will say that I like the green orcs. =D
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Postby vVrAiTH » Aug 20 2008, 17:04

Akul wrote:


On-topic: H12&3 barbarians are a dull faction, like all in those games are. In H4, they are an extremely weak faction. In H5, they are a unique faction with its own features (like all factions in that game are) and they finally feel liek a faction that despises magic.
As for the looks, I like them if for nothign else then for not being green. I am not a fan of green orcs and goblins.


Considering a few of there units cast spells, they dont really despise magic, i found some of the creatures skills quite amusing though, i.e toss goblin at enemy

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Postby Elvin » Aug 20 2008, 18:52

They work pretty fine against enemy spells, all you need is the right shatter. Even without it they can do fine with the only exception of dark, unless you have shatter dark you are pretty much doomed.
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Postby KiOwA » Sep 7 2008, 10:16

Against neutrals Orcs are arguably one of the best creepers, their blood rage ability can take a boatload of damage. Best of all it doesn't cost resources like Rune Magic. However I still find Rune Magic more powerful in the late-game, but that's just me.
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Postby PhoenixReborn » Sep 7 2008, 12:29

In the first place I've never beaten an orc opponent controlled by a human. Kragh, Haggash, The goblin guy, it doesn't matter I always lose, no matter what faction I am, early game or late game.

So my point is that a lot of people like to pick the orcs because it's an easier win. So no, not many are disappointed with the barbarian faction IMO.

Personally I like it.

In the second place take a look at the orc unit with the crossbow in heroes 2 and tell me what color it is? and the ogre? and the war troll? in fact the only green one is the regular troll...

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Postby Metathron » Sep 7 2008, 12:46

First off, I don't play multiplayer aside from the occasional hot seat game, so keep that in mind.

Did you ever utilize dark magic against the human barbarian opponent? As far as I've read here, it's supposed to be overwhelmingly crippling against them, unless they have shatter dark magic.

As for the original question, no, I was not disappointed by the barbarian faction at all. On the contrary, I found them really innovative and fun to control.

Playing against the AI, I never take any of the shatter skills. My skill picks are always the same: Attack, Leadership, Luck, Logistics are all a must, and then take War Machines or Defense. So, in that respect the skill choices are a bit boring, but it's not a big deal at all, and I'm sure this would be subject to change against a human player.
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Postby blizzardboy » Sep 7 2008, 15:52

PhoenixReborn wrote:In the first place I've never beaten an orc opponent controlled by a human. Kragh, Haggash, The goblin guy, it doesn't matter I always lose, no matter what faction I am, early game or late game.

So my point is that a lot of people like to pick the orcs because it's an easier win. So no, not many are disappointed with the barbarian faction IMO.

Personally I like it.

In the second place take a look at the orc unit with the crossbow in heroes 2 and tell me what color it is? and the ogre? and the war troll? in fact the only green one is the regular troll...


I wasn't thinking the function of the race so much as the fashion. It's a solid faction that can be hard to beat, but I think stripping it of magic made it dull. Plus the shatter schools are kind of lame since it's a hit and miss. If you take shatter destruction but your opponent goes dark, you've wasted an entire tree and several levels worth of skills.

I've played against them as Haven without going dark magic and beaten a few of them. You just need to be careful with not letting a certain stack get high in the rages or they'll clean though you.

I actually did a game where I went dark magic and I ended up losing. I used frenzy on their units, they killed each other, but the remaining units that were frenzying on their own units had like level 3 rage and it was like trying to kill the Hulk :D I think when people talk about using dark magic, they mostly are talking about the debuffs.

It's interesting how you've fought people that use a hero other than Haggash. They always, always, choose Haggash. (one of my old posts talks about my hatred for her, although I've been able to beat her since then).

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Postby okrane » Sep 7 2008, 16:53

Orcs are a nice race I believe.

The only race I'm against in heroes 5 are the dwarves. What's so great about 6 levels worth of fat bearded midgets and another dragon as a top tier... boring...

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Postby Metathron » Sep 7 2008, 17:08

I quite agree with you, okrane, even if their appearance isn't what bugs me about them (though it's rather bland), it's their unbalanced nature: how weak they are in early game and how freakishly powerful they tend to be later on.
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