another necro guide (toe)

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

is this guide any help?

get off, noob
2
33%
well, there are some hints
3
50%
good work, this improved my necro playing already a bit more than slightly
0
No votes
this guide takes necros to a whole new level! (ok, this option is a joke...)
1
17%
 
Total votes: 6

marcus.visor
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another necro guide (toe)

Unread postby marcus.visor » 15 Jun 2008, 18:33

before reading this guide, you should consider the poll. if i failed, dont waste your time. but if there are not many votes given, read it and contribute to it please.

hi guys
looking for some good necro guide here i recognised that most of the information in your brains is lost somewhere between the screen and you, so there is no guide containing most of the cool tricks we all found. if there is one, send a link to me please, but i dont think so.
i dont claim that mine will be better, it is just the beginning of some kind of necro knowledge archieve. i also know that most of the things mentioned here are already mentioned here somewhere, i just want to gather. furthermore, i will leave anything most of us can think of theirselves out, i dont want to waste time, mine or yours. so lets go...

Hero Choice

good ones are:

caspar: the tent rescues about 10-15 t6 creatures/game and help a lot especially at he beginning. catapult and brimstone rain are also not a bad choice. canceraids tent will be of no use.

raven: the def reductin is great because it affects all of the enemy units and is free. i prefer caspar, but she will fit the role of the lategame hero more.

bad heroes:

all the others. creature stats or the other crappy features are just not as good as caspars or ravens skill.


Skill Choice

enlightenment

nice, but neglegible. stats are nice to have, but not vital. the bonus xp are not important, +/- 1 lvl (it wont be more), i wouldt care. intelligence and dark revelation are good skills, but not great. i dont chose enlightenmen very often, its a luxury(lord of the undead sux, dont even think about it).
interesting about it is that you will be able to push your dark energy by mentoring. with your main hero on about lvl 20-25 you will get +80-100 points/hero.

luck

great skill. necro is a might faction, massing creature power. a must have if you are offered it. soldiers luck also owns.

defense

its like enlightenment. nice to have, because you will have to resurrect fewer units, but can be left out. if you chose it(you should, if its going to be a long game, won in a final, big fight), take evasion if you have nothing more important and depending on the enemy. last stand can be nice to save the atb value of a stack which will be resurrected after being killed, but i did not try it that often, cant tell anything special.

attack

take it. battle frenzy, power of speed, tactics.

sorcery

take it. skill choice is very situational, think.

dark/ summoning

well, its difficult. i choose dark most times, master of mind and curses, because vampirism, puppet master and the stat buffing skills are great. summoning should be chosen if you get better spells in the guild. the high resurrection values are absolutely worth it, you can also take both of the skills, it depends on your other skills. think. the summoning skills are also very situational and should be chosen depending on the offered spells.

logistics

if you like/ need it, if its a big map etc... think.

+necromancy, eternal serv and the mark. howl effect is just to low compared with spells. rush the serv, its a good help at the beginning.


all the other skills should not be chosen due to the following reasons:
spells wont be offered, other skills are better, they are not needed because they are needed in situations you wont let come. and try to get the ulti, you wont.


Creatures

archers while you cant resurrect many units and dont have serv, after this period warriors. they are just better. caspar can pick them from the first day on. dont forget that one warrior can shield your archers from ranged attacks.
zombies suck. tanks can be risen from neutral kills and are not needed after some time. they are just to slow and have a bad damage before getting battle frenzy. the cursing attack is nice to have, so you might have a use for them later when you have the frenzy, just keep them in the rax till you need them.
the little shiny friends should get the first upgrade due to the mana leech.
both vampires do a good job. if you are good at resurrecting or have soldiers luck, take the princes.
also both liches are good. chose them depending on your resurrecting skills.
the big bastards get the first upgrade because of the stats and the skills, no other way.
both of the dragons are fine - if you get them. i dont have the money most of the time.


The First Week

tavern, skells max, hall, wall, blurrie friends, guild. thats my usual order, you can change if you want. i prefer the blurries before the additional drak energy if i know i wont use it to resurrect something good, which is the case most of the time.
the other weeks are up to you.


Treasure Chests

get the xp until you are able to creep without heavy losses, then get the money, it will help you better by providing power, which will lead to xp, got it?


Creeping

turtle the archers with the few zombies your hero has from the beginning.
in most cases you should obviously let the immaterials take the retaliation before attacking with the skelletons. zombies can be wasted at the beginning, they will just need slots you could fill with different resurrected units.
if you have a bunch of different stacks its easier to let ie. the warriors fight alone due to the fact that its easier to resurrect one stack. the first aid tent will ressurect more units if they have less hp due to the raise dead spell.
dont forget to use the mark all the time. targeting your own units is stupid, its not perfectly controlable and they will have to suffer a lot of damage bofe you get enought mana to cast raise dead. the only case which could make you do this is that you just need 1 mana and wont deal nuff dmg to get it by attacking. never happened to me.


Hero Fights

mass spells first, rush into the enemies, vampirism or puppet master, kill some stuff, raise some stuff. i will change this brilliant strategie when i have the time to do it^^.



well thats the beginning. a lot will follow. tell me whats left behind here, give me some feedback please and tell me if the t3´s are affected by soldiers luck.


necro, remember: keep green! :ill:

p.s.: there is no necro guide made by the people accomplishing "the plan", another reason to write this...
Last edited by marcus.visor on 19 Jun 2008, 10:42, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postby Elvin » 15 Jun 2008, 20:49

Good job though we disagree on a few things :) I had written a necro guide myself in the past few days, take a look.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
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Unread postby marcus.visor » 16 Jun 2008, 05:47

so which are these things, disregarding that i didnt find your guide? i cant find any problem in my tactic. i also cant find that guide. did you upload a pdf?

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Unread postby parcaleste » 16 Jun 2008, 07:36

I think I usually prefer to go with the Dark/Light/Summoning Magic, Sorcery, after the Necros are much more of a casting spells faction and Luck. I just love to boost them with the Light spells +12 Attack with Righteous Might can cause some serious problems to the opponent's defending stacks and +12 Defense is a must for the crappy Hit Points your army have.

Still I use the Vampire Lords more often, I think... You can rysh a whole map just with them, once you have like 40-50 of the bastards
:devil:

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Unread postby Elvin » 16 Jun 2008, 08:32

I don't have the time to elaborate due to exams. Did you click on the link and if so what did you get? It's a thread at HC that you should be able to access whether you have registered or not.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
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Unread postby marcus.visor » 16 Jun 2008, 11:31

I think I usually prefer to go with the Dark/Light/Summoning Magic, Sorcery, after the Necros are much more of a casting spells faction and Luck.
you cant expect to get light magic and some good spells in your guild.
- If there is no time to change marks from enemy to enemy, mark your skelies. Ranged stacks will always attack them and give you an almost endless source of mana
well 675 dmg taken to cast raise dead? i dont think thats a good idea.
- Spells that will help you are eldritch arrow, arcane crystal, firetrap, slow but for the most part you will be using raise dead. Do not cast unless you need to.
why dont you prefer creatures instead of a higher guild? seems more reasonable if you consider all the aspects, so i spend my wood, ore and time to get more useful things.


the most important question i have, which i also not realy clearly(well, there is no "clear" answer, i know, but there must be some better answer) answered in your guide is, how to counter other races if you are to face a human player. a good haven player will juck fuck you wich light/dark, how many units you spam is not important, just try it. barbs will fuck you because they take no damage and fuck your dark magic. raise dead will only lead to their win because they will deal more damage from spell to spell. runemages... well, they have runes. they have immaterials, berserk, resurrection, dragonform... and what does the necro have?
necros seem to be considered as an overpowered faction by many people, but thats bullshit imo. there is just nothing but some firepower and the hope that you can kill the enemy in midgame, if you are facing a good player.
about the creatures:
skellies rule, no question. the stats and skills are great for T1 and they are great for creeping.
zombs suck.
ghots rule due to immateriality, the manaleech skill can be used seldomly because the enemy will cast or kill them quickly.
vampires suck. the necro just does not offer them enought power to get some good strikes, the life leech is nearly neglegible after taking some damage. the only huge advantage they have is that they take profit of the health reduction of raise dead.
liches suck in great battles unless you manage to attack with no penalty. death cloud damage is low, the raise dead spell is not as strong as other factions powers of T5 creatures, but its ok.
wights rule, not questionable, they are compareable with the average strength of the other factions T6 units.
T7... get off. worst thing ever, its like canceraids in the face.

so WHAT SHALL I DO? win early? a poor answer for me.

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Unread postby Elvin » 16 Jun 2008, 11:59

why dont you prefer creatures instead of a higher guild? seems more reasonable if you consider all the aspects, so i spend my wood, ore and time to get more useful things.
Who says I don't? The spells I mentioned are lvl 1-2.
the most important question i have, which i also not realy clearly(well, there is no "clear" answer, i know, but there must be some better answer) answered in your guide is, how to counter other races if you are to face a human player.
The guide comes from an online experience of over 85 games. You are mistaken about necro having problems against barbarians, dwarves or haven, it's an equal match. I have played and seen a lot of replays of better players to know that you have a pretty good chance.

Do not expect me to give a detailed analysis of how or why that is. I can only give advice, the rest you are to figure out as your experience increases. Everything else is details.
For instance can you take out lots of master hunters week 1 with little to no losses? 20 of each elemental week 3? What about lots of blackies? You won't see haven or dwarves do that but necro with some practice can.
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Unread postby parcaleste » 16 Jun 2008, 13:54

And don't forget if some stack on the map joins your army, it happens rarely, but still it does...

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Unread postby marcus.visor » 16 Jun 2008, 14:19

could you send me some replays then? id be very impressed, i have nearly no online experience, just some lans. and i got bashed by haven. dwarves also fucked me with berserking dragonformed überthanes, it realy was no fun, though i did not lose a unit for the entire game. we had similar creature producing buildings ect., i had my build complete and just got owned by massed runes. i´d realy like to see a necro-dwarv replay.
Last edited by marcus.visor on 17 Jun 2008, 05:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postby Elvin » 16 Jun 2008, 17:06

I have a recent one. The replay isn't mine btw. It clearly shows that it's not your army that will win you the game but your hero.
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Unread postby Metathron » 16 Jun 2008, 18:03

I don't get it, how do the dwarven units get two turns in a row? :|
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Unread postby Elvin » 16 Jun 2008, 18:11

They don't, replays show them acting twice when they use runes before playing.
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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 16 Jun 2008, 18:54

Yeah, the necro hero stats were about double the fortress hero stats...mask of equity?

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Unread postby Elvin » 16 Jun 2008, 19:21

Don't know but I'm willing to bet that enlightenment was involved :) Plus he may have gotten to the middle first, in my last game my barbarian had 34 27 16 22 and the enemy knight 21 12 1 8. Ok the lack of power was due to might over magic :D And I had 6 levels more so the enlightenment stats really made a difference.
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Unread postby marcus.visor » 17 Jun 2008, 05:53

the replay is not the best example because its shows a quite curt victorie if you consider the stats. of course the hero plays the most important role, but he cant explain everything. if there are other good replays without such a huge gap between the contrahents stats, id like to see it, also thank you for this one.

i think i have understood my other problem now.
homam seems to be a game of experience difficult to tell others, like magic the gathering. id like to see some tricks n stuff about necros, but there wont be anybody who can tell something specific though i´d like to read it.

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Unread postby Elvin » 17 Jun 2008, 07:20

Indeed, a game can be a whole lot different according to the skills picked, spells learnt and how early in the game it is. However if you noticed the battle was not won because of necro's might stats, it was won because of phoenix and cotn and having 25 spellpower is pretty much the norm. I have often had 30 power since I pick enlightenment.
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Unread postby marcus.visor » 17 Jun 2008, 19:06

the things you have mentioned still dont explain how to win without having so high stats comapred with the other heroes stats.
i also like to get some advanced advice about necro playing as i mentioned. if there is some you can give me ofc, i know its difficult to explain something like that, i also tried to explain this to a friend and failed.

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Unread postby Elvin » 17 Jun 2008, 23:50

They do, you just dismiss them. You do not HAVE to have superior stats and if you wish you can always pick enlightenment as I have recommended.

Rest is fast creeping, learning the spells before engaging your enemy and defeating him with them while your undead block his play or try to survive. I've already mentioned spell combos, which skills are likely to be effective and strategy tidbits.

What exactly are you asking for? There is no set path, you have to improvise as happens with all magic factions - except dungeon that can almost always depend on a destructive build.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
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Unread postby fiur » 18 Jun 2008, 03:37

well soon I got 100+ multiplayer games as Necro on www.toheroes.com
so I guess I should know a "few" tings about necros... :)
first here is my results: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26408

if i must rank Neco heroes it may look like this:
Naadir
Kaspar
Lucretia
Zoltan
Deirdre
Orson
Raven
Vladimir
"failsafe" build of an necro hero should be like:
Summ=> Earthblood,fog Veil, Conjuration
Dark=> Mind, Curses, Pain
Enlight=> Arcane, Intell, ....
Log=> Scouting, Swift mind
Sorcery=> Training, Regeneration, Erratic mana

for sure alot of these choices depends on what faction you are up against
and for sure what map you play!!
this is just an example (and most of the time an safe way to play Necros....
myslelf change that "setup" alot..... :)

Back to the heroes list....

Naadir:
well no comment needed, you start with both dark/summ... and all killed creatures on the battlefield will return as ghost fithing on your side (the number is equal to your hero lvl. (or creature stack size)......

Kaspar:
yes first aid is for sure handy (when it comes to creeping), but in final battle that tent will not survive for long.....

Lucretia:

I guess you all know that Vampires (all kind) is good in creeping.... and to get lucretias boost helps alot... (and she also start with sorcery...) it sure helps!

Zoltan:
I guess he is the most feared Necro hero (if your opponent is an spellcaster)...... but then again.... to count on blocked spell is for sure a kind of gamling...

Deirdre:
Banshee howl.... no comment needed... :)
and if you are lucky and get 2 or more pieces of the Death's Embrace set...
that howl will for sure be nasty!!!

Orson:
Zombies..... can that be good? hell yeah try this:
Rot Zombies, Vampirism/Arcane Armour....

Raven:
start with 2 magic skills (dark/des) can be good can be bad.... I tend to love summ magic so then you'll have 3 magic skills.. and thats a waste of atleast 1 skill slot... :(

Vladimir:
He was good not anymore...... :)

and I bet I got alot of replays.... I'll start "digging" when I got time... and I'll post them for sure....

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Unread postby marcus.visor » 18 Jun 2008, 07:23

ok, i played 4 games since my last post. i won 3 of them, which i cant explain to myself because i rely on maths when playing homam, and the maths tell another story. i always won with superior trap creeping and traps in the last battle(and a real strong arcane armor). it seems that i´m negating my own opinion, which might me good. i wont ask for explanations anymore, looks like i dont need then, or at least they are to hard to understand for me. as long as it works its ok...
What exactly are you asking for? There is no set path, you have to improvise as happens with all magic factions
well, i try to get some "allmighty wisdoms" which work in all situations or at least the most, which i do not already know. i cant say it more detailed because the details are up to you. if there are no, its just ok.
oh, there IS one question than can clearly be asked:
does soldiers luck affect immaterials?

@fiur:
whats so bad about raven? i think her skill and master of fire(if you get a spell for it ofc) totally make up for summoning.
i also dont understand why naadir is a good hero. the ghosts come to late in the battle, in few numbers and you cant even let them take the retaliation if your contrahent aint a total moron. its also not so good for creeping, there is nearly no noticeable difference.
zoltan also aint that good imo because most opponents will be able to adapt to your army/hero, so they dont have to rely on 1 or 2 spells and you will certainly not block more of them if they are high lvl spells, not to mention that many spells dont have to be cast more than 1 time.
lucretia? necros just dont have the attack value to use vampires properly, they lack of damage, not to mention that they are wasted if you kill enough of them so they cant leech enough to get up again. mass raise dead on them will help but be a waste of time, compared with other spells. only an arcane armor would help them, but thats just my oppinion...


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