Should Aramageedon be removed in Heroes 6?

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blizzardboy
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Should Aramageedon be removed in Heroes 6?

Postby blizzardboy » May 19 2008, 3:01

So I was fighting this 30 year old girlfriendless Russian male who spends his nights studying every aspect of the game and then slaughtering kids. And he stuck nothing but magnetic golems and gargoyles in his army then armageddoned me nonstop. Is there anyway to counter this other than kicking all Russians from the game and letting them waste someones elses time?

I suppose I could get fire resistance, hope that I get the magic immunity spell, I wedge my crossbownmen behind griffons and squires. But it would have to stay at no more than 3 stacks. I doubt it would work, he'd probably pull off some cheesy 30 year old Russian move and win the game. If I ever ended up somehow beating a Russian, they'd probably come to my house and kill me.

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Bahototh
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players from the east...:-)

Postby Bahototh » May 19 2008, 11:27

I've beaten some. No counterattacks yet...

I would say magic resistance as high as you can get,
Reach his (weak?) troops fast, and of course sorcery to outcast him.

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Postby Meandor » May 19 2008, 11:47

Leave squires and peasants out, dive with griffons and throw everything you have against him, maybe light magic/sorcery based hero with mass haste, with him being wizard he shouldn`t have much spellpower. Magic resistance would help also.

And maybe less hate for russians? They are nice people, well some of them.
...

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Postby blizzardboy » May 19 2008, 20:18

Leave squires and peasants out, dive with griffons and throw everything you have against him, maybe light magic/sorcery based hero with mass haste, with him being wizard he shouldn`t have much spellpower. Magic resistance would help also.

And maybe less hate for russians? They are nice people, well some of them.
Good advice, except for the last part about hating Russians less. There's a limit to advice I'm willing to take, and that is just right out. I fought the Nathir and got fire resistance and all the other resistances and I won easily. But he never got Armageddon, plus he was French, not Russian, so it's comparing apples to oranges.

I'm itching for another fight with a Russian that uses Nathir.

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Postby Banedon » May 20 2008, 0:04

Magical Immunity, Resurrection, Imperial Griffins or Battle Griffins, brute force.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Postby Elvin » May 20 2008, 0:39

Wow a fourth topic about countering the evil Russians, get a life. Oh wait one was about the demons' shiny ass, my bad.

Anyway a few quick pointers about haven. Make good use of luck/morale, get mass haste/RM, retribution, empathy, maybe guardian angel. Anything to increase the amount of damage you can do within a short period of time.

In any case it doesn't matter. Suppose you are prepared to fight armageddon and he decides instead to use curse of netherworld. Or a flaming ballista. Or motw with frenzy/blind/DV.
Just make sure you creep fast, get the key places of the map before your opponent and pay attention what artifacts you equip your hero with or if you can complete sets. When against academy what you will face is unpredictable and more often than not subject to luck.

Oh and keep in mind that academy is a lot better than haven in short maps - ie maps where it can attack before week 3-4.
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Postby konfeta » May 20 2008, 1:37

The exact same way you countered it in HoMM 3. Anti-Magic, magic resist artifacts, and those sexy, sexy Fire Resist artifacts. If all that hero is fielding is Golems and Gargoyles, keep in mind that later tier creatures are far more powerful than their earlier troops weekly growth.

I can see how this would be a problem on a small map and a well executed rush by the Academy player. That means, what you want is Counter-Spell perk from the Sorcery Line. You will completely shut down the Academy Player from his trump card, and suddenly all he has is tier 2/3 stacks against your entire army. He isn't gonna survive that long enough to win the Counter-Spell war.



It's kinda Ironic though. "Dracaggedon" has always been a staple move by the Dungeon faction, and now Academy/Dwarves are by far the best candidates for it. Poor Dungeon sits this train out now.

And please don't be hatin' on us Russians. HoMM is simply an incredible and popular series in Russia, most of us are only good at it because we play it more than most other places as well as have non-stop tournaments at lan parties.

You don't see Russians ragging on evil Americans with their wild basketball skillz?

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Postby Macros the Black » May 22 2008, 9:44

I think there's only 4 strategies to beat Armageddon and Magnetic Golems if you are evenly matched.. From best to least:

1. If you're Dungeon, make an army of only Black Dragons. Armageddon will then only be useful in resurrecting the Magnetic Golems, but they don't stand a chance against Dragons.
2. Counterspell combined with Sorcery so you can keep outcasting him.
3. Lots of magic resistance from skills/artifacts.
4. Creature abilities like magic resistance, aura's, combined with the spell Magic Immunity.

There are other strategies that might work, but those would depends on you being at an advantage already. From a strategic point of view, if you and your enemy are evenly matched, these 4 strategies will always make you win the fight. 'Course, he'll still have his other troops afterwards, and if he's smart he'll have an additional hero closeby to attack your hero once you win the fight. If you went with strategies 1 and 4, your army will most likely be less useful in a normal fight.. And then both your and the enemy's main hero are dead. Maybe getting Mentoring to get a better second hero than him is a good idea?

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Postby Elvin » May 22 2008, 13:42

Counterspell does not work with sorcery, on the other hand an opponent with sorcery and armageddon will cast before you can counterspell again ;) Not to mention that caster units can end counterspell too.
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Postby Lepastur » May 22 2008, 16:05

Yeah, but one Counterspell at the beggining, plus tactics and maybe Aura of Swiftness could be enough to rush the cheaters (yes, I consider this behaviour of taking advantage of game's flaws like cheating).
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Postby Macros the Black » May 22 2008, 22:23

Counterspell does not work with sorcery, on the other hand an opponent with sorcery and armageddon will cast before you can counterspell again ;) Not to mention that caster units can end counterspell too.
Ah, I didn't know that. Still, I've tested with a full sorcery/Destruction hero against one with just counterspell.

It seems like 2/3 Armageddon's can be stopped with counterspell. That's enough, I reckon.. After all, Magnetic Golems don't really stand a chance against an actual force :)
And casters ending counterspell doesn't matter, because only Black Dragons and Magnetic Golems are Magic Immune (although you can get very close to having a completely Magic Immune army with artifacts and Luck and Defense.. And there's always the Magic Immunity spell).
Yeah, but one Counterspell at the beggining, plus tactics and maybe Aura of Swiftness could be enough to rush the cheaters (yes, I consider this behaviour of taking advantage of game's flaws like cheating).
Eh, well I honestly think it's an intended strategy. I mean, it existed in HoMM 3 for the Black Dragons, and it was very popular if I recall correct (and Armageddon was really a Dungeon hero spell back then, too, which makes me think it was intended even then). The creators of HoMM 5 would have to have been quite stupid not to check if there wasn't a possibility for this strategy in their game if they didn't want it to be there.
And the Armageddon + Golems/Gargoyles strategy already existed before TotE. You think it's a coincedence, then, that they made the alternative Golem upgrade completely Magic Immune, and the alternative Gargoyle upgrade the exact opposite?

Say.. that makes me think. I never much experimented with the new Gargoyle upgrade, because the 1 or 2 times I tried the strategy involved, the Gargoyles were dead before they were useful. But do the gargoyles work on magic immune creatures? Because if that's the case, Teleport and these gargoyles would be a good strategy to counter another Academy player using Armageddon Golems..

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Postby yuritch » May 23 2008, 6:07

Don't forget about the Dwarves - they have 3 Fire-immune units (one of Rune Priest upgrades, one of Thane upgrades and their Dragons), 3 units that don't lose armor to Master of Fire even though taking damage from Fire spells, rune of Elemental Immunity that gives Fire immunity 50% of the time plus Fire-based spells are kind of their speciality, so they can have an Armageddon-immune army that still is quite able to fight on its own, unlike Magnetic Golems.

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Postby konfeta » May 23 2008, 8:24

Altough I must say, Armaggedon in the campaign is brutal due to this. If only it worked with Mark of the Wizard...

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Postby Macros the Black » May 23 2008, 15:44

Don't forget about the Dwarves - they have 3 Fire-immune units (one of Rune Priest upgrades, one of Thane upgrades and their Dragons), 3 units that don't lose armor to Master of Fire even though taking damage from Fire spells, rune of Elemental Immunity that gives Fire immunity 50% of the time plus Fire-based spells are kind of their speciality, so they can have an Armageddon-immune army that still is quite able to fight on its own, unlike Magnetic Golems.
Very true. I never thought about that, until I got my ass kicked yesterday by someone using that strategy :(

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.

Postby Sancryu » Jun 25 2008, 21:30

stack a huge number of imps, and a good amount of troops to clear his golems. with no mp who care if he got a bunch of spells


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