Best level 1 unit

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Which level 1 unit is the best in your opinion?

Conscript/Brute
1
2%
Familiar/Vermin
1
2%
Skeleton Archer/Skeleton Warrior
5
12%
Sprite/Dryad
3
7%
Assassin/Stalker
22
54%
Master Gremlin/Gremlin Saboteur
5
12%
Shieldguard/Mountainguard
4
10%
Goblin Trapper/Goblin Witch-doctor
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 41

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Metathron
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Best level 1 unit

Unread postby Metathron » 17 May 2008, 19:44

Vote for which you think is the best, not your favourite.

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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 18 May 2008, 01:05

I voted stalker due to the overpowered invisibility ability they have.
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Unread postby danhvo » 18 May 2008, 02:26

I want to make it clear, that we're voting based on the same gold cost, right? Thus for 1000 gp, we would be comparing 10 stalkers/assassins vs 25 shield guards/mountain guards vs 40 brutes/conscripts etc. Otherwise, individually the most costly stalker/assassin would beat out everything else.

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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 May 2008, 06:30

Stalkers for their exploitable ability
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby Metathron » 18 May 2008, 08:56

danhvo wrote:I want to make it clear, that we're voting based on the same gold cost, right?
Of course, growth and cost are just as important as other factors.
Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:I voted stalker due to the overpowered invisibility ability they have.
wimfrits wrote:Stalkers for their exploitable ability
I think you should also take into consideration how this ability of theirs fares in multiplayer, not merely against AI.

I also used to think invisibility was overpowered, but I don't anymore, now I just think it is very powerful against the AI/neutral stacks. It happens quite often that your warlock will run out of mana or his spells just won't (yet) have the firepower to destroy the enemy during those 3 turns of invisibility.
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 18 May 2008, 11:23

Well, almost every battle will be against the AI even in multiplayer.

Having an extremelly powerful level 1 unit gives an extreme advantage in creeping. Each to his own opinion but I objected to any unit having invisibility before TOTE was released. It is just too imbalancing especiallly on a level 1 unit.

Other balance isssues need to be addressed and I am peeved that Ubisoft refuses to communicate with the fans.

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Unread postby Mirez » 18 May 2008, 14:51

it's so obvious the stalkers are the best... their frigging imba
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Unread postby danhvo » 18 May 2008, 22:54

I'm obviously missing something, because I don't see why people are making such a big deal over invisibility. It only lasts up to 3 turns, doesn't protect stalker from area effect spells, will be dispelled when the stalker attacks or an enemy creature runs into it. Basically, it gives the stalker an ability to make the first attack without retaliation, which is something that a dryad is frequently able to do. And for that, the stalker gives up the ability to shoot. To me, that doesn't even look like an even trade.

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Unread postby blizzardboy » 19 May 2008, 04:58

If you have Ellaine as a garrison hero, as far as I'm concerned, 2gp earning per day peasants are the best tier 1 unit. With a castle pumping out 50 at the start of the week, that's 100gp a day forever. It doesn't take long before it's like having an extra gold mine. And the longer the game, the more and the more money you make. With Ellaine, it only takes 8 days for peasants to pay for their own cost, then it's all profit from there on. In multi player, when the final battle goes down, I usually upgrade them all into conscripts and put them with my main hero and have them charge wildly into combat like a herd of sheep charging a pack of wolves. But their main purpose is the $$$, which Haven never has enough of.

Unless you're fighting a 30 year old Russian male whose goal in life is to have no life. In which case you lose by default. The best option is to hit the "quit" button on day 1.

Without Ellaine, I'd say stalkers just because they can conduct operation cheese.
Last edited by blizzardboy on 19 May 2008, 08:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postby wimfrits » 19 May 2008, 08:26

danhvo wrote:I'm obviously missing something, because I don't see why people are making such a big deal over invisibility. It only lasts up to 3 turns, doesn't protect stalker from area effect spells, will be dispelled when the stalker attacks or an enemy creature runs into it. Basically, it gives the stalker an ability to make the first attack without retaliation, which is something that a dryad is frequently able to do. And for that, the stalker gives up the ability to shoot. To me, that doesn't even look like an even trade.
Basically, stalkers are used as fodder troops. So only up to 7 stacks of single stalkers are deployed.

If there is no target in sight enemy AI stacks will simply wait in those 3 turns, so that means at least 3 extra spell casts for your hero. In most cases, this provides the needed edge to defeat ranged units/casters in early game.
I find the combination with Lethos even more unbalanced, as the waiting of enemies doubles the effect of decay.

Stalkers are also great in combination with the ballista skill. I once cleared an entire map with Deleb and a stack of joining stalkers alone, leaving my Inferno troops going to waste..

And a decent spellcaster hero can survive insane odds in castle defense against AI with 7 stalker only.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby danhvo » 19 May 2008, 18:04

Ah, now it makes sense. The ability works because the AI is even more stupid than usual. I have to stop thinking like a human.

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Unread postby Dacarnix_ » 19 May 2008, 18:29

I went with Skeleton Archers as 30g for a ranged attacker is awfully nice, but I can definitely see why the votes are falling as they have.

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Unread postby durin » 19 May 2008, 19:57

I voted Shieldguard/Moutainguard. You can't beat them for toughness. Totally crazy with Ingvar but not too shabby with any other Runemage.

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Unread postby Dark_PC Gamer » 20 May 2008, 14:49

Voted stalkers, best level 1 unit for creeping.

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Unread postby danhvo » 20 May 2008, 18:19

I don't like fact that the upgrade pairs are grouped for the purpose of voting. There's a huge difference, for example, between skeleton archers and skeleton warriors. You might like one, but not the other.

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Unread postby darknessfood » 20 May 2008, 22:21

wimfrits wrote:Stalkers for their exploitable ability
You said it :)!
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

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Unread postby Macros the Black » 22 May 2008, 09:33

I think all these creatures can be useful in their own right.
Conscript/Brute, I don't know about, because I'd rather never upgrade that dwelling until the very end, making money off the peasants. But I suppose the unupgraded creature can be factored in as well.

Familiar/Vermin, well I think the Familiar are probably the worst creatures in the list, but the Vermins are actually quite useful to give your Pit Lords some extra mana, which is good especially in combination with a hero that specialises alot in Gating.

Skeleton Archers aren't very good, but you usually get alot of them, and beside the Liches (and if you choose the alternative upgrade for Liches, you'll be using them alot for spellcasting anyway) are the only shooters in the Undead army. Still, I think the Skeleton Warriors are better. They can become the strongest stack in your army..

Sprite/Dryad.. Well, I never much liked the Dryads, as they are usually dead before they can use their ability to heal the Treants, but Sprites are really good. I had a 3x3 duel where at the end of the battle the Guardian Angel ability kicked in and resurrected more than a hundred Sprites from the first hero. Since the enemy hero was out of mana (Sprites don't stand a chance against destructive magic..), I was actually able to win because they managed to outrun the enemy troops enough for my hero to finish them off.

Assassin/Stalker: I always liked the Assassins, with their poison. But I gotta say, nothing beats Stalkers.. For reasons already described :)

Master Gremlin/Gremlin Saboteur: eh.. Master Gremlins are kinda bad. Even a large group of them doesn't do much damage, and resurrects way too few golems. Maybe they're useful if your first aid tent is destroyed..
Gremlin Saboteurs don't have much use either. That is, until you meet an enemy Sylvan hero with Triple Ballista, Imbue Ballista and Fire Arrows. That's when these guys are incredible :D Still, they won't survive long enough to sabotage the ballista once, maybe twice.

Shieldguard/Mountainguard: maybe Stalkers have invisibility to keep your hero casting spells 3 more turns, but if you play it right these guys can keep you hanging in there for quite a while as well. Plus it's just great to have a bunch of them in town defense :)

Goblin Trapper/Goblin Witch Doctor: these are both the best and the worst level 1 unit. Worst, because, well.. I've never actually noticed Defile Magic to work, and those traps maybe once or twice. They can still give a nice hit once you've progressed into melee combat, due to their numbers, but that's it really. Best, because you need them for the Shamans and Cyclopses.

I rather compare in player versus player fights, which means Stalkers aren't going to get my vote :)
I think I'm gonna go with Vermin. Giving your Pit Lords more mana is really a good ability.

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 02 Jul 2008, 14:41

Assassins first, then sprites, then skeletons, then goblins. The reasons are aforementioned.

The other units I don't find much use for them as making me even move them over battlefield, unless, of course, they're the only ones. Usually I keep them guarding shooters.
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Unread postby Lord Lakely » 05 Jul 2008, 15:17

I voted Stalkers; I didn't like them personally (too emo), but they are the most powerfull lvl1, both statistically and in-game.

I must add that I think that upgraded Goblins (unupgraded Goblins are the greatest crap in the whole series), Familiars, Skeleton Warriors and Assasins can be extremely dangerous at some times.

Sprites/Dryads and Gremlins are allright, Brutes/Consctripts are total crappy cannon fodder.

Skeleton Archers and Quasits have limited uses, and are likely to be crushed early.

Defenders do what their name says they do, but they only are a real threat in Large numbers, and/or with a very powerfull Runemage (who can cast Expert Implosion or Divine Vengeance for instance)

So most obviously: Stalker.
My personal favourite for this level is the Skeleton Warrior

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Unread postby Asheera » 06 Jul 2008, 14:16

Stalkers if we take into consideration creeping.

Otherwise the Familiars and Skeleton Warriors are the best for me.
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.


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