H5 AI harder than H3 AI?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Dark_PC Gamer
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Location: Grassy areas

H5 AI harder than H3 AI?

Postby Dark_PC Gamer » Mar 2 2008, 21:58

When i play against the AI on normal i can never beat them in H5. In H3 AI i always beat them and i play it on high difficulty.

Does anyone have a tough time with the AI in H5?

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Mar 2 2008, 22:02

I guess the HoMM V AI has been trained better in cheating.

On second thought, that's almost the only thing it's been trained in. :|

User avatar
Dark_PC Gamer
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 19
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Location: Grassy areas

Postby Dark_PC Gamer » Mar 2 2008, 22:59

I thought the AI cheats only in hard mode or higher in H5.

User avatar
Wurtzel
Scout
Scout
Posts: 155
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Perth Australia

Postby Wurtzel » Mar 2 2008, 23:39

Metathron wrote:I guess the HoMM V AI has been trained better in cheating.

On second thought, that's almost the only thing it's been trained in. :|


And the AI in H3 never cheated?? ;|
I THINK SO THEREFORE I AM

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Mar 2 2008, 23:41

H5 AI cheats everywhere as much as it can :tongue: Can see the map, gets discounts or bonuses on gold/resources etc. And as an AI it is next to worthless, all it does is use its insane bonuses. All it knows is rushing.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Mar 3 2008, 0:26

Wurtzel wrote:
Metathron wrote:I guess the HoMM V AI has been trained better in cheating.

On second thought, that's almost the only thing it's been trained in. :|


And the AI in H3 never cheated?? ;|


Where'd I say that?

User avatar
PhoenixReborn
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2014
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: US

Re: H5 AI harder than H3 AI?

Postby PhoenixReborn » Mar 3 2008, 1:01

Dark_PC Gamer wrote:When i play against the AI on normal i can never beat them in H5.


Practice more and you'll do fine.

User avatar
Wurtzel
Scout
Scout
Posts: 155
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Perth Australia

Postby Wurtzel » Mar 3 2008, 1:47

Metathron wrote:
Wurtzel wrote:
Metathron wrote:I guess the HoMM V AI has been trained better in cheating.

On second thought, that's almost the only thing it's been trained in. :|


And the AI in H3 never cheated?? ;|


Where'd I say that?


It was just the implications, although after rereading your post you also did imply that the H 3 AI did cheat as well... One wonders if the H6 AI will be completely reworked and if so, how??

On a related issue, and I've said it in previous posts, the cheating done by most human players is just at bad if not worst. I mean, how many times have we all reloaded a game after we've either been beaten by the AI or made some horrible blunders... With the save/reload options, what chance has any AI got....
I THINK SO THEREFORE I AM

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Mar 3 2008, 6:06

Yeah, but with reloading you learn quicker; which means, on the next map I play I am not going to do the same mistake again... most of the time :D

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 3 2008, 10:15

Quick tip for defeating the H5 AI: RUSH HIM BEFORE ALL THOSE EXTRA RESOURCES HE GETS MAKE HIM NIGH INVINCIBLE.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Mar 3 2008, 10:28

Or just wait enough months, I have the impression it leves it's main hero close to its castle and left the secondary ones to "scout" around.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 3 2008, 11:13

Yeah, but that's boring... especially since you'll have to wait a few weeks to amass enough troops to defeat his town.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Mar 3 2008, 11:26

Yeah, but this can left you develop your hero the way you want + to explore the most of the map. Which is the main fun, at least for me :)

User avatar
MistWeaver
Wraith
Wraith
Posts: 1277
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Citadel of Frosts

Postby MistWeaver » Mar 3 2008, 14:52

Dark_PC Gamer wrote:I thought the AI cheats only in hard mode or higher in H5.


No. However on EASY it doesnt get lower prices. But still fights neutrals nearly without losses.

And the AI in H3 never cheated??

In comparison with H5, H3 cheating is nearly non-existant :)

User avatar
tb5841
Scout
Scout
Posts: 163
Joined: 22 Nov 2006

Postby tb5841 » Mar 3 2008, 16:16

I'm still not convinced that it actually cheats in TotE. AI creeping losses often seem unfair - I think they are calculated based on army/hero strength alone, so it doesn't struggle with archers/casters the way a human player would. But this is not necessarily cheating.

But as for a 'better' AI... Battlefield AI in H5 is terrible, if you have a stronger army you should always win. And after the first few months, it starts to look incompetent on the adventure map as well.

AI players will always rush you, and attack you very early on, in a way that they didn't in H3. So the first few weeks are much more important, and a mistake early on will cost you, but if you can win the early battles and make them suffer heavy losses in them, the game becomes easy to the point of monotony.

User avatar
PhoenixReborn
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2014
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: US

Postby PhoenixReborn » Mar 3 2008, 17:41

tb5841 wrote:AI players will always rush you, and attack you very early on, in a way that they didn't in H3.


I remember when ROE came out (and ran sluggishly on my friends computer) we tried a small map on normal and were rushed and killed on day 3.

I wonder how much AI was tweaking during patch and expansion process for 3?

But I guess it is beside point.

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » Mar 3 2008, 18:34

Wurtzel wrote:One wonders if the H6 AI will be completely reworked and if so, how??


There's a thread on the H1-H4 forums about how to teach a HoMM AI how to play. Any contributions would be welcome :)

On a related issue, and I've said it in previous posts, the cheating done by most human players is just at bad if not worst. I mean, how many times have we all reloaded a game after we've either been beaten by the AI or made some horrible blunders... With the save/reload options, what chance has any AI got....


Obviously an AI is really behind the proverbial 8-ball if the human is allowed to reload but the AI isn't. The only way to fight this sort of thing would be to make sure that the AI doesn't need to reload ...

My suggestions to combat this would be:

1. Allow the AI to have perfect knowledge of the map.

2. Allow the AI to "play out" how a fight would go before it commits itself so it never needs to reload a fight vs. nuetrals.

3. Create a decent set of "good faith estimators" [must be worlds better than H5!!] at how well a human could do vs. nuetrals. Then allow the AI to choose the most favorable outcome of either the good-faith-estimators or it's actual combat results. [I.E. maybe it gets lucky on terrain??]

************************************************************

I think one of the reasons why people don't like the H5 AI is that its bonuses are as far from subtle as you can get. If you have an AI that is sneakier [hides its cheating better] then a lot of those complaints will go away. Better yet allowing the player to configure the amount && types of AI bonuses via sliders would be a great step forward because you get to choose the type of game you want to play.

keanu
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 29
Joined: 12 Apr 2008

Re: H5 AI harder than H3 AI?

Postby keanu » Apr 23 2008, 11:39

[quote="Dark_PC Gamer"]When i play against the AI on normal i can never beat them in H5. In H3 AI i always beat them and i play it on high difficulty.


for me it's exactly the opposite!
i think that the h3 ai ,assuming to use the most difficult difficulty level for both,is much more challenging!

danhvo
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 19 Nov 2007

Postby danhvo » Apr 23 2008, 19:05

Alamar wrote:1. Allow the AI to have perfect knowledge of the map.


I thought it's been established that the AI does have perfect knowledge of the map. Someone created a custom map and did an experiment to confirm this and reported in great details (I forgot where I saw this). Not only that, but it apparently knows your movement capability (e.g. whether you possess the Wings of the Angel). I did a little experiment myself and am convinced that it is completely aware of my movements even if we start from opposite corners of a map.

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » Apr 23 2008, 22:34

danhvo wrote:
Alamar wrote:1. Allow the AI to have perfect knowledge of the map.


I thought it's been established that the AI does have perfect knowledge of the map. Someone created a custom map and did an experiment to confirm this and reported in great details (I forgot where I saw this). Not only that, but it apparently knows your movement capability (e.g. whether you possess the Wings of the Angel). I did a little experiment myself and am convinced that it is completely aware of my movements even if we start from opposite corners of a map.


I didn't mean to imply that the H5 does or doesn't have perfect map knowledge. That's just one item that I think would be "required" to help even the odds against humans that can reload if they mess up.

The goal is to create a proper set of cheats so the AI wouldn't need to reload [except against humans] because it would never be surprised by an outcome / guess wrong about can I make it back to my castle / etc.

********************************************************

How actively the AI uses the perfect information it has though would be another source for debate :)


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests