Heroes on battlefield

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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theGryphon
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Postby theGryphon » Feb 10 2006, 15:50

DaemianLucifer wrote:Magic should work similar to HIV.Without magic skills you have no magic at all.With basic,you get level 1.Advanced 2 and 3.Expert 4 and 5.

Or:basic gives you levels 1 and 2.Advanced 3 and 4,but you can also learn level 1 in other schools.Expert gives you 5,but also the ability to learn levels 2 and 3 in other schools.

Or some combination of the above.


I think you have a good point there. Two levels of (any) mage guild for free looks too much. But then again, you need magic skills in order to get the most out of them. In the late game I think a might hero (with no magic skills) can hardly spend a turn by casting a level 2 spell. That's probably the reasoning behind, and it makes sense to me.

All in all, I think they (Ubi+Nival) had mostly the long (especially MP) games in mind during development and making decisions. Think about it, more things make sense (if not everything). The balance between might-magic, hero development and diversity, etc. I'm also sure that many things are being tuned/altered with the feedback from beta testers. If smth's really going wrong, someone should notice it, I trust the talented players out there. :proud:

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Feb 10 2006, 16:58

gryphonheart wrote:Still I don't see much of a difference. There are already lots of strategical decisions (long- and short-term). Btw, what do you mean by "not every stats", or what's your idea about it?


I meant that youd need a certain skill like defense,tactics,etc in order too boost your troops and not being able to boost your troops by just a mere presence of a hero.

gryphonheart wrote:Finally, just an extra banner??! What about the glorious commander that has a figure of its own? And, you were talking about displaying equipped artifacts on heroes, right (I'd really like that too)? So, trust me, if they did what you say, you would probably hate it more than any of us! :)


No,I mentioned that Id like if it was implemented,but it wasnt me that suggested it.One of my threads was that graphics is overrated.I still play HIII and HIV,even though we have games with much better graphics.Also I still play UT from time to time(probably the only shooter I like),even though these newer versions have way better graphics.And I prefer HL over its sequel.And I still play starcraft even if its way old.So graphics is the last on my list.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 10 2006, 17:42

Gaidal Cain wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote: I meant that you use a skill slot on the ability while a magic hero doesn't use any skill slots for spells, so they can invest in other skills that help them be better at magic. It has nothing to do with what you get first, skills or spells.


As I said, do yourself a favor and try playing the game first. There are no slots lost on abilities, only skills. And magic heroes needs to pick abilities that enhance their spells if the spells are going to have much effect.

Oh, and with the amount of skills and abilities out there, building up two carbon copies of a hero type is bound to be very hard. The skills and abilities system actually makes heroes more diverse than they've ever been.



OK, i'll get back to you after i get some more play time. And how many abilities are out there? Coz the ones I saw didn't seem that many per race.
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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 10 2006, 18:51

For every skill there are 3 basic abilities available to every town and several other specific for some or even one town that you get by combining different abilities and/or skills. But to answer your question, yes, there are a lot of abilities in my opinion.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 10 2006, 18:59

Oh yeah, forgot about the abilities that you only get for certain races even from general skills.

Got to stop posting so late at night.
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It's still annoying that there's no pure might heroes, but then again there's no pure magic heroes either, are there.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Feb 10 2006, 20:11

Actually,there are.You could always fill yourselves with just magic skills and the attack and defence would be so small(around 10)that they could be ignored.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 10 2006, 20:58

But they still wouldn't be all magic.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Feb 10 2006, 21:00

What if your hero is a genie,and his bio says that hes a magical being :devil:

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 10 2006, 21:03

Lies... He obviously fell into a vat of blue dye as a child and has a wierd genetic disorder that causes his legs to coil around eachother. 8|
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Postby Thelonious » Feb 11 2006, 14:25

Really guys... it doesn't matter if one can be all might or all magic. What matter is that heroes are invounurable. That's what's wrong with the system.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 11 2006, 14:38

Maybe they could have creatures retaliate if the hero attacks them directly! I don't really like the ideea of being able to kill a magic hero as that would lead to the H4 problem of having to take Combat for all ur heroes! It would make more sense for a Tactician to stay somewhere where enemy troops couldn't hurt him.

This could work for all hero types. You could make a Mage hero only be attackable with spells, a Might hero that's attacked normaly and a Tactician that you can only attack when u kill all his creatures.
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Postby chaosgorgon » Feb 11 2006, 15:38

guess the solution more simple in this system is to let the heroes to recieve attacks, but not killing the heroe itself, but reducing his initiative

so a hero with holy charge recieve a retaliation, but that reduce the initiative -depends how much is the dmg of the retaliation-, or a caster that recieve a shoot or a melee attack also get lower initiative

the hero could wait to increase his damged initiative, and all have magic immunity, but with this last im not sure

but the TT idea is good

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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 11 2006, 18:50

Thelonious wrote:Really guys... it doesn't matter if one can be all might or all magic. What matter is that heroes are invounurable. That's what's wrong with the system.


No, that's what helps the system. Vulnerable heroes just need a sign above them that says "HIT ME!!" because that's what H4 battles were focused on.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Feb 11 2006, 18:59

Gee,and I thouught that all those fancy uniforms in war actually do mean "Hit me,Im important!".Guess generals are so well protected and behind the lines for some different reasons then.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 11 2006, 19:17

Infiltrator wrote:
Thelonious wrote:Really guys... it doesn't matter if one can be all might or all magic. What matter is that heroes are invounurable. That's what's wrong with the system.


No, that's what helps the system. Vulnerable heroes just need a sign above them that says "HIT ME!!" because that's what H4 battles were focused on.


And that's what we want. I just don't want it to end up like in H4, as in GM Combat being a must. Also I'd like not having more that 1, maybe 2, heroes per army. A full hero army was fun, but I didn't like the fact that you could ignore creatures if you wanted.
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Postby chaosgorgon » Feb 11 2006, 20:10

the problem of the GM skills can be solved if u can chose to put the heroes into the field or not, with diffrent bonus and pros and conts

the problem of the full heroes army can be solved if u can use slots only for heroes and slots only for monsters, and limit the heroes in armies, like 3 per army, the 3do guys went too far leting all the slots to heroes

anyway guess that the initiative changing is the best idea to the H5 system as it is

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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 11 2006, 20:16

And that's what we want. I just don't want it to end up like in H4, as in GM Combat being a must. Also I'd like not having more that 1, maybe 2, heroes per army. A full hero army was fun, but I didn't like the fact that you could ignore creatures if you wanted.


Well whoever do you mean by we, that's not what I want. I want it to stay the way it is now. Out of the combat, as I don't want travelling creatures either (which would happen if your hero died).

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Postby chaosgorgon » Feb 11 2006, 20:38

....and the problem with Inf is that hes soo afraid to changes that dont even analyse possible improvements, is a "black or white" thinking, really dont know how can be fixed.......

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 11 2006, 22:33

chaosgorgon wrote:anyway guess that the initiative changing is the best idea to the H5 system as it is


I really don't like the init thing because some creatures attack more times then others.

@Infiltrator:
We as in the people that would like heroes to not be untochable.

The best way is to have different hero types have different interactions with the BF. If he's a tactician he can just stay in the back, if he casts spells he becomes vulnerable to spells, if he attacks in melee he's vulnerable to melee attacks, or ranged ones if he uses a ranged attack!

And if he dies we just call it "being K.O.", and when the battle ends he comes back with some movement penalties or something.



And on a related note: I look at the skill system in H5 and i'm kinda disapointed that you can only have 6 skills.
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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 12 2006, 0:26

Well, I just stand behind two simple facts : 1.Creatures are the only ones that are open for attack; 2. Heroes influence the battle but are invulnerable. That's just how it was before the demon spawn of Heroes 4, and I'm glad Nival realized it was a mistake.


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