In general, which School of Magic is Strongest/Most Useful?

[Milla aka. the Slayer]

I chose destructive magic much to my own surprise. It's just what has worked best for me so far. I might come back and change my mind later

[Warmonger]

Dunno if it was posted before, but proves the rule might << magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qhS798A9AA

Necromancer with a only a few stacks defeats 300+ populations inside Strongold during a siege If you are deviant enought to play similar games, answer to our question is obvious.

[parcaleste]

[Metathron]

Muy impressivo!

I think this points towards Dark Magic as being the generally most powerful school of magic.

[parcaleste]

+ Summoning

[CaptainPicard]

I favor destructive magic most. On the stock Heritage map, I played a Warlock who got to somewhere around level 30. I had the skill wheel available, so I chose all the unique enlightenment and sorcery skills (apart from counterspell). Anyway, long story short with his empowered implosion spell he did over 5600 damage, and the spell only cost 4 mana. His lightning and fire based spells weren't far behind either since I had the phoenix feather cape and trident of the titans. If someone in the group had a resistance or immunity to earth magic that made implosion less economical, I simply used a chain lightning that did some crazy amount of damage as well (If it wouldn't hit my own creatures). I never managed to have the chance to select Warlock's Luck however, which would have made him even more potent. Anywho, for the nay-sayers against late game destructive magic, it's still very possible to make a destructive magic based warlock who will dominate all but the most insanely sized armies. Courtesy of that hero, his army didn't have to be massive either in order to take down large forces, since he did most of the work.

[Sir William S Titan]

When I was playing H5, I remember Dark being the most powerful. Seems it still is.

[ThunderTitan]

it's still very possible to make a destructive magic based warlock who will dominate all but the most insanely sized armies.

Yeah... it's great... if you're a Warlock... and even then Implosion kills about 30 lvl 7's per cast... at lvl 30 you can have a Ballista kill around 9 per turn with the right skills too. Somehow i think having Spells that slow or make units unable to retaliate are better... if only because you get 7 extra turns aiming them at the enemy.

[okrane]

Let me repeat some of what I said in the first page of the thread.

You cannot ask the question like this. You cannot say, which is the strongest, as it is relevant to the faction/map/playstyle/enemy etc

[Milla aka. the Slayer]

Well, we have to talk about something right?

[asuka]

it's still very possible to make a destructive magic based warlock who will dominate all but the most insanely sized armies.

Yeah... it's great... if you're a Warlock... and even then Implosion kills about 30 lvl 7's per cast... at lvl 30 you can have a Ballista kill around 9 per turn with the right skills too. Somehow i think having Spells that slow or make units unable to retaliate are better... if only because you get 7 extra turns aiming them at the enemy.

I agree with the Mass Slow & Mass Confu spells. In large battles, I usually cast these first.

To okrane, I understand your point- which is strongest would depend on the situation. But this poll is asking in general. It's like asking you this question: If you are challenged to play 50 games in random faction, random map & random hero, & you can only have one school of magic in the entire 50 games, which school would you choose?

[parcaleste]

... If you are challenged to play 50 games in random faction, random map & random hero, & you can only have one school of magic in the entire 50 games, which school would you choose?

Dark Magic! Even though you know your opponent will most likely choose the Light One However, Puppet Master, Frenzy and Blind are A BLAST to have them with Ranger (if you have the luck). And don't forget about the Vampirysm

[Banedon]

But this poll is asking in general. It's like asking you this question: If you are challenged to play 50 games in random faction, random map & random hero, & you can only have one school of magic in the entire 50 games, which school would you choose?

This question isn't really fair, because it's biased towards Dark Magic (and, to a lesser extent, Light). That's because if you're playing with a random faction it's very possible you end up with a low-magic race like Haven or Stronghold. This would almost instantly negate Destructive and Summoning. On the other hand, a Warlock can cast Mass Decay and deal a lot of pain while a Knight can cast Mass Slow with reasonable effectiveness.

For the question itself, I truthfully don't know. I never gained much experience with Heroes V. But based off what I do know, I'd say Destructive. Destructive magic lives a timed life, yes (5600 damage off Implosion is nothing when the opponent has 5600 Titans, for example) but that barrier scarcely ever happens, and in the meantime Destructive Magic wrecks heavy damage that ignores creature stats. Very dangerous to high-level units. Magical Immunity would ruin Destructive Magic, but then again by virtue of its direct damage, it can't be dispelled either.

[Jolly Joker]

But this poll is asking in general. It's like asking you this question: If you are challenged to play 50 games in random faction, random map & random hero, & you can only have one school of magic in the entire 50 games, which school would you choose?

Since usefulness of Magic is dependant on the availability of spells and Magic Skills I'd give points for the availability of spells first:
Light gets 4 points (fully and guaranteed available in 4 towns)
Destructive gets 4 1/2 (fully available in 4 towns plus 1/2 for Academy)
Dark gets 3 1/2 points
Summoning gets 3 points.
Additionally the combined probability values of the heroes for getting the skills are:
Dark: 45
Destructive: 61
Light: 40
Summoning: 45

So I'd pick Destructive then because it would give me the best chances to make the most use of it.

[asuka]

Since usefulness of Magic is dependant on the availability of spells and Magic Skills I'd give points for the availability of spells first:
Light gets 4 points (fully and guaranteed available in 4 towns)
Destructive gets 4 1/2 (fully available in 4 towns plus 1/2 for Academy)
Dark gets 3 1/2 points
Summoning gets 3 points.
Additionally the combined probability values of the heroes for getting the skills are:
Dark: 45
Destructive: 61
Light: 40
Summoning: 45

Even with these numbers showing the better probability going towards Destructive, I still choose Dark. Mainly because:
1. I find Destructive only strong with Dungeon due to Empowered Spells & Elemental Damage.
2. If you fail to get the high level spells, Dark low level spells are much powerful against Destructive's low level spells. (I would prefer Mass Slow + Mass Confu vs. Fireball + Master of Fire)
3. Strength of Destructive would depend on spell power and you might get unlucky and end up with a low spell power hero type. On the other hand, Dark does not very much rely on spell power.
4. Spells availability would improve when you start conquering other towns.

What okrane said regarding Dark being the most effective in abusing the AI & neutrals is very much true. And i also find it most effective in distrupting your human opponent's plan & strategy in combat.

[Jolly Joker]

Let's take out the Orcs, and let's say we (or any 2 people) play 49 games, 1 game each with each town against each town. You play only and exclusively with Dark and Dark Magic spells. I play only and exclusively with Destructive spells.

What do you (all) think who will win more games if we assume that we (or the 2 players) play roughly equally well?

[tb5841]

asuka wrote:

1. I find Destructive only strong with Dungeon due to Empowered Spells & Elemental Damage.

Destructive Magic is just as powerful with Academy now, with MotW + Elemental Gargoyles + Magnetic Golems. And almost as powerful with Sylvan, with Avenger + Imbue Arrow + Imbue Ballista + High Druids. If you think it's only strong with Dungeon, you should really try these out. Fortress can also be pretty good if they get Armageddon.

[Metathron]

I agree with asuka's reasons as to why Dark Magic qualifies as the most powerful, or at least obviously more powerful than Destructive. What tb5841 says is also true to some extent, especially for the Academy (Dungeon is a no-brainer), but I must say that Destructive spells are often lacking for me. Just last night I was playing a game with Fortress and went the Master of Fire - Ignite route. I was not especially impressed with the damage my offensive spells caused, and also found myself going back and forth in my spellbook looking for a better spell to cast that would somehow disable the stack of, say, 180 zealots, rather than kill some 9 of them and have them shoot soon afterwards. I'm not saying I won't use Destructive magic anymore, because it's great fun (and also very powerful with the Warlock), it's just that most of the time Dark, Summoning and Light magics will prove to be more diverse and useful. In my humble opinion, of course.

[tb5841]

My problem with Dark Magic is that so many creatures have immunities to various spells that it is easy to counter.

Against Academy: Titans, Golems and Gargoyles are immune to mind spells, Steel Golems are immune to Slow, Magnetic Golems are immune to all spells, Magi have Cleansing, and the hero probably has Magic Mirror.

Against Fortress: Defenders and their upgrades + Harpooners are all immune to Vulnerability, Brawlers and their upgrades are immune to mind spells as are Fire Dragons + upgrades, and all units may have Runes of Exorcism which negate half your spells.

Against Necropolis: All immune to mind spells.

Against Haven: Paladins are immune to Frenzy and can Lay Hands, Zealots can cast Cleansing. Griffins are Immune to Blind.

and so on - all teams except Inferno/Stronghold (and to a lesser extent Dungeon) are well prepared to deal with Dark Magic. Factor in Magic Resistance, Cleansing/Magic Immunity and the various artifacts which grant resistances, and it doesn't seem that useful to me.

[asuka]

Let's take out the Orcs, and let's say we (or any 2 people) play 49 games, 1 game each with each town against each town. You play only and exclusively with Dark and Dark Magic spells. I play only and exclusively with Destructive spells.

What do you (all) think who will win more games if we assume that we (or the 2 players) play roughly equally well?

I honestly think the Dark user would win more games. .

Now, maybe I am a weaker player than you are & that is whay my analysis favors Dark. But as for my humble experience in playing Dungeon, I usually cast Mass Slow or Mass Confu or both before I even start using Destructive spells. And as Necro, I simply don't use destructive spells.

To tb5841; are you actually saying Academy can equal (damage wise) Dungeon's use of Destructive Spells?
Empowered spells + elemental chains + irresistible magic + very high Warlock spell power = Mark of the Wizard + Elemental Gargoyles + Magnetic Golems + Wizard spell power?