The Return of the King (new XXXL map)

[Vlaad II]

VERSION: Tribes of the East 3.0

AUTHOR: Vlaad, January 2008

TYPE: singleplayer / multiplayer

SIZE: Impossible (320 x 320) with underground

DESCRIPTION: Aragorn and his companions rode to the halls of Theoden, where Gandalf healed the aged king and rescued him from the spells of Wormtongue. They won a desparate battle in Helm's Deep against the Orcs of Isengard. Saruman has fled, but the Lidless Eye is moving in the East, setting its gaze on Gondor. Aragorn knows that, before all is lost, he must walk the Paths of the Dead... Meanwhile, an uneasy alliance of Elves and Dwarves will try to banish the shadows from Mirkwood.

ADDITIONAL INFO: The map features 15 customized heroes and 20 unique locations, all based on Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. You'll notice some details are based on the book, not the movie. The biographies of the heroes and towns taken from Wikipedia. Thanks to Elvin, Baklava, Guarder and Magnomagus for help and suggestions. Additional feedback - good or bad - is welcome. I may update the scenario with any good ideas you may have. We're even thinking of creating a campaign or a mod based on Middle-earth, so stay tuned and feel free to join the team.

NOTES: I wanted to recreate Middle-earth, but decided to focus on the War of the Ring instead. Why? I realized that Heroes 5 is somewhat different from the other Heroes games; the adventure map is not a map anymore - it's a world. If you place a tree, it does not represent a forest like in H2 and H3 - it is a tree. This evolution started in H4, and now I can't get immersed in a scenario if the objects are treated as symbols (like before). But when I tried to depict Middle-earth as a world, I found that even an XXXL map wasn't big enough. So I've had to crop the original map.

There are five starting positions, most with level 1 heroes and towns:

1) Red is Gondor (Haven) - you start with Aragorn and Gandalf and may enlist Faramir and Imrahil later on.
2) Blue is his ally Rohan (Haven), whose riders are led by Theoden, Eowyn and Eomer.
3) Yellow represents what's left of the Orcs of Isengard, after Saruman had fled.
4) Brown, Yellow's ally, stands for the Orcs of Mordor and Mirkwood. Two Ring Wraiths, Witch King and Khamul, have the Blood Rage skill because their armies consist of Stronghold creatures. However, they will be able to learn Necromancy and Dark Magic as well.
5) Finally, if you feel like playing without allies, choose Green - the Elves of Lorien and the Dwarves of Erebor.

PREVIEWS:

Minas Tirith

Legolas

Moria

DOWNLOAD

(soon at CH too... hopefully! )

[Metathron]

Looks great, Vlaad. Can't wait to dig my claws into it.

The only thing that worries me is whether performance lags due to the large size of the map.

[Vlaad II]

Looks great, Vlaad. Can't wait to dig my claws into it.

Thanks.

The only thing that worries me is whether performance lags due to the large size of the map.

Others have been wondering the same, so let us all know how it goes.

I have 1.8 GHz and 900 MB of RAM and the map runs smoothly when I lower the video settings (I leave eyecandies ON, of course ).

Loading is a drag though.

[shep61]

Vlaad, I played it for a couple of hours last night. I like the concept, but the performance was really bad. I have a 2.8GHZ processor, 1GB RAM, and a fairly good graphics card (NVIDIA 7900 GTX). Even when I lowered the graphics settings, it was very slow. Also, the AI turns were very long, especially the Brown turn.

I wll keep working at it, as I like the idea a lot, but it's very painful.

Have you thought of breaking this up into a campaign of smaller maps? You have a lot going on in this one map. Maybe there's a better way to do the same thing......

[Vlaad II]

Vlaad, I played it for a couple of hours last night. I like the concept, but the performance was really bad. I have a 2.8GHZ processor, 1GB RAM, and a fairly good graphics card (NVIDIA 7900 GTX). Even when I lowered the graphics settings, it was very slow. Also, the AI turns were very long, especially the Brown turn.

What are your settings? I played it with 800x600 - it looks bad, but runs smoothly... Even the AI turns were not too long.

Have you thought of breaking this up into a campaign of smaller maps? You have a lot going on in this one map. Maybe there's a better way to do the same thing......

Yeah... The truth is, being mostly a casual singleplayer, I loved XL maps in previous Heroes games... and wanted to recreate that feeling. I agree it might have been better to break the story up in several maps. Then again, this scenario covers only part of the third book... *sigh*

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback.

[parcaleste]

Beautiful... just beautiful...


Still I saw some stuff like a gem mine next to one of the human castles (the one that's up to Minas Tirith, forgot it's name), but nothing that a map editor can't fix

Also I liked the "Ent's Hut" where 2 conscripts are needed to get like 25 Treants, I spend like 5 minutes trying to attack it till I realize what is the case

Balin's tomb is AWESOME though, still had not seen all of the map but so far (besides the poor AI with which you can't do nothing) I love it. Still it lags a bit but it is like that with these size of maps

And (cause I am playing with the orcs (Ugluk, actually)) I was thinking wouldn't it be better if you'd have to do to finish some quest instead of just "Kill them All"? I think this way the pleasure of the playing will be like twice bigger

[JudgeMan]

Very nice map yet, felt kinda empty at first a bit but it's different and makes it harder resource-wise. I really like the customized stuff, especially Legolas moving on the adventure map hahahah!

As for the performance, I'm playing it at 1280x1024, medium quality and i get almost no lag. Load and save time are fine and AI turn doesn't go over a minute. Comp: AMD dual core 4200+ 2.2Ghz, 2gig ram, NVIDIA 7900GT 256MB.

Make more maps like these!

[Vlaad II]

Beautiful... just beautiful...


Still I saw some stuff like a gem mine next to one of the human castles (the one that's up to Minas Tirith, forgot it's name), but nothing that a map editor can't fix

Also I liked the "Ent's Hut" where 2 conscripts are needed to get like 25 Treants, I spend like 5 minutes trying to attack it till I realize what is the case

Balin's tomb is AWESOME though, still had not seen all of the map but so far (besides the poor AI with which you can't do nothing) I love it. Still it lags a bit but it is like that with these size of maps

And (cause I am playing with the orcs (Ugluk, actually)) I was thinking wouldn't it be better if you'd have to do to finish some quest instead of just "Kill them All"? I think this way the pleasure of the playing will be like twice bigger

Thanks! Yeah, sadly the Gem Mine close to Edoras (Blue Haven) is not accessible... There's a similar problem with some Dragons and the treasure they're guarding, but that one is not game breaking. I'll fix those in the updated version!

Yeah, I should've customized the goals. Any suggestions...?

Should I make the Ent-shaped quest hut more visible then...?

Finally, Elvin suggested I introduce more roads, too...?

[Vlaad II]

Very nice map yet, felt kinda empty at first a bit but it's different and makes it harder resource-wise. I really like the customized stuff, especially Legolas moving on the adventure map hahahah!

As for the performance, I'm playing it at 1280x1024, medium quality and i get almost no lag. Load and save time are fine and AI turn doesn't go over a minute. Comp: AMD dual core 4200+ 2.2Ghz, 2gig ram, NVIDIA 7900GT 256MB.

Make more maps like these!

Yeah, it seems the map can run smoothly if your computer is good enough. Thanks for the feedback. So, you're playing Green...? Let me know how it goes, OK? I tested Green on Heroic; the Yellow AI sent only one strong hero my way.

[JudgeMan]

I'm playing on hard. Yellow got defeated before I even saw him once . Blue and Red didn't do much yet.. Just took the castles they got from yellow.
Haven't encountered brown yet.

I got a question too, the stairs to go to Theoden's (or someone else, i don't remember clearly) grave near the orc town on the middle left is "blocked by rocks and stuff". Anyway to unblock that?

Oh and Gimli with his perma thunderclap rune + soldier's luck and all the dwarfs "% on attack" skills is SO powerful. "cripple stun stun bash stun cripple" hahahaha

[Vlaad II]

I'm playing on hard.

Well, I know the map by heart - so I was able to play Heroic. Seriously though, I had an impression the AI was playing more aggressively on Heroic. I might be wrong, of course.

Yellow got defeated before I even saw him once .

Yeah. Yellow is supposed to be defeated first, since Isengard was already beaten (in "Two Towers").

I got a question too, the stairs to go to Theoden's (or someone else, i don't remember clearly) grave near the orc town on the middle left is "blocked by rocks and stuff". Anyway to unblock that?

There's nothing there really. Those were supposed to be Glittering Caves, but I decided to leave them out... It was only AFTER the War of the Ring that the Dwarves went down there, as far as I remember. It was Gimli himself who established a colony there...

But I could place a mine or something, if needed...?

Oh and Gimli with his perma thunderclap rune + soldier's luck and all the dwarfs "% on attack" skills is SO powerful. "cripple stun stun bash stun cripple" hahahaha

Hahaha, yeah, he IS sort of IMBA - but isn't he so cute running around?

[Kalah]

Man that Moria entrance looks cool...

[Vlaad II]

Man that Moria entrance looks cool...

Thanks, but I'm afraid that's all there is. I thought Moria didn't play an important role in the War of the Ring, so I decided to include the entrance only. I promise I'll do a great Moria in "Fellowship", if I ever make that one...

[parcaleste]

Thanks! Yeah, sadly the Gem Mine close to Edoras (Blue Haven) is not accessible... There's a similar problem with some Dragons and the treasure they're guarding, but that one is not game breaking. I'll fix those in the updated version!

Yeah, I should've customized the goals. Any suggestions...?

Should I make the Ent-shaped quest hut more visible then...?

Finally, Elvin suggested I introduce more roads, too...?

I think that this problems with the mine like are from this... dunno what it's called, when you push that button to see the color under buildings, creatures and etc. (green for "enter here", red for a wall or smt.), so there is an yellow color which I don't know what is doing exactly, but you can't step on it or whatever, but I don't know how to fix it at all


Well... I guess that the game for the Sauron's pets should end when you capture Minas-Tirith and Lotlorien, no? Or maybe, perhaps, when you get some sort of a RING, dig it Or maybe the Power of Dragons set? I'm not sure, I know this one is not a quest by the book, but it's a tough one anyways
As for the "good guys", I guess that tooking that ring to Orodruin and destroy it? I suggest that in this case when Sauron is defeated and you do't have the artifact at the end of every week that same hero Souron, to come again with a new army or smt. Other variant is for Him to cannot leave his castle, till a Keymaster's tent is obtained, so he has to have "a tiny little army" there with him, in case some of His heroes couldn't manage to capture that tent, but a human-elf-dwarf manage to do this first :)Saruman... Saruman is a tough one now... Guess for him to find that Ring, destroy Sauron and Minas-Tirith will be enough... but still it sounds much like "Kill 'em All"... what about after defeating his last oponent on the map, his Orthank (spell?) to be attacked by a legion of ents and so to defeat them to be declared winner?

About the Ent Quest... yes, might've been done something, but maybe and just two Conscripts is not that much, what about 200? (I know those are supposed to be Pippin and Merry, but still I think some stuff from the book might be roundabout in a way to pass with the game )

And something that have just came to my mind... is there a way to make every week a Dead Knights week, till finishing a certain goal? (from week two or three like, so one to have more chance of a better army to defeat them )

Why need roads? I think that this way the map is GRRREAT! Wondering what you have done with Guardian of the Lake, is it somewhere there?

Also, do you think a Tear of Asha on the map will do some goodies? Might to be in a quest or something

Still hasn't seen Barad-Dur - hopefully it's the Sovereign Citadel, no

Shoo, got tired by writing this

[ByteBandit]

Good luck Vlaad on your map. Sounds big and fun. And sounds like a big project.

[Vlaad II]

I think that this problems with the mine like are from this... dunno what it's called, when you push that button to see the color under buildings, creatures and etc. (green for "enter here", red for a wall or smt.), so there is an yellow color which I don't know what is doing exactly, but you can't step on it or whatever, but I don't know how to fix it at all

Actually, it's easy - it's called mask (the yellow color); just choose "mask" in the tools menu (instead of "objects", which is default), then use the erase option. Or... you could wait for the updated version!

I think the problem is a "bulk" though (a terrain feature)...

Well... I guess that the game for the Sauron's pets should end when you capture Minas-Tirith and Lotlorien, no? Or maybe, perhaps, when you get some sort of a RING, dig it Or maybe the Power of Dragons set? I'm not sure, I know this one is not a quest by the book, but it's a tough one anyways
As for the "good guys", I guess that tooking that ring to Orodruin and destroy it? I suggest that in this case when Sauron is defeated and you do't have the artifact at the end of every week that same hero Souron, to come again with a new army or smt. Other variant is for Him to cannot leave his castle, till a Keymaster's tent is obtained, so he has to have "a tiny little army" there with him, in case some of His heroes couldn't manage to capture that tent, but a human-elf-dwarf manage to do this first :)Saruman... Saruman is a tough one now... Guess for him to find that Ring, destroy Sauron and Minas-Tirith will be enough... but still it sounds much like "Kill 'em All"...

Whoa, whole lotta ideas here! The problem with "Rings" map is that everybody has their own vision of Middle-earth, and an impossible mixture of both original suggestions and the things they would like to be true to the books... So, if Sauron is just an eye, how come Saruman didn't flee to Shire? How do you make everyone happy? LOL

You're right about the Ring, of course. But where to place it? If I gave it to Frodo or something like that, the scenario would become a race to get the Ring first. I thought I could introduce Tear of Asha instead, but wouldn't that change the entire concept...?

Thus I decided to stick with good old slugfest. I could change it though...

Why need roads?

Oh, for practical reasons: heroes would move faster, plus finishing the map would be less tedious (players could guess the locations of the remaining towns).

Wondering what you have done with Guardian of the Lake, is it somewhere there?

Like I told Kalah, I'm afraid I left it out - I've created only the entrance to Moria (and the Guardian is on the opposite side). Wait for the "Fellowship" map...!

[parcaleste]

... Whoa, whole lotta ideas here! The problem with "Rings" map is that everybody has their own vision of Middle-earth, and an impossible mixture of both original suggestions and the things they would like to be true to the books... So, if Sauron is just an eye, how come Saruman didn't flee to Shire? How do you make everyone happy? LOL

You're right about the Ring, of course. But where to place it? If I gave it to Frodo or something like that, the scenario would become a race to get the Ring first. I thought I could introduce Tear of Asha instead, but wouldn't that change the entire concept...?

So what about a Keymaster's Tent somewhere on the map that will "unlock" Frodo and Sam near Orodruin and the one who gets to them first to win the scenario?

Still I think that Barad-Dur you should make an Inferno castle (the Sovereign's citadel).

Damn, there should be a Final Battle in some way, arrrgh!




BDW I prefer a work on a Beleriand map instead





PS Why heroes should move faster? Just put more monsters so to use the Warpath ability and this will be and a quicker Level Up

[Vlaad II]

The map has been updated to v. 1.1 - I fixed some passability issues (mentioned above) and strenghtened the Mordor garrisons.

[Humakt]

Question: Does this map modify game files? I try to avoid maps that acts like mods as well. I'd be interested in trying the map as it sounds interesting (heck, its LotR based, how it couldn't?) and I have good enough hardware.

[Vlaad II]

Question: Does this map modify game files? I try to avoid maps that acts like mods as well. I'd be interested in trying the map as it sounds interesting (heck, its LotR based, how it couldn't?) and I have good enough hardware.

There are a few customized features (appearance mostly), so I guess it could modify game files. On the other hand, you could simply remove it from your Maps folder once you've done (or wish to play other maps).