Logistics?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

GrowlingDog
Super Peasant
Super Peasant
Posts: 99
Joined: 18 Jul 2006

Logistics?

Postby GrowlingDog » Jan 8 2008, 5:32

I have found unless i am playing a small or tiny map that logistics is essential. However, on large or xlarge maps, i do not think they go far enough.
I think "Logistics" should take you far further on the big maps, especially if you have logistics on expert level. I mean does anyone play these size maps without getting logistics? Also i think "Town portal" should take you to nearest town at level ten, choice of 2 towns at level 15 and choice of any town at lvl 20.
Moving around the map on the large and Xlarge maps can just be frustrating, even with Expert logistics AND the boots of travelling. It shouldnt take me 3 weeks to go from one end of the map to the other, any thoughts on this.

User avatar
tb5841
Scout
Scout
Posts: 163
Joined: 22 Nov 2006

Postby tb5841 » Jan 8 2008, 12:35

On Large maps, I find I never go back to my starting town after about the end of Week 3. It just doesn't seem worth it.

I think the town portal spell made H3 completely imbalanced, and if it could take you to any town in H5, then reaching level 20 significantly before your opponent would basically mean you'd won. I think it should be left as it is.

I don't play large maps very often myself, as travelling for days does get pretty boring.

User avatar
Bonzer
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 236
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Location: South Coast UK

Postby Bonzer » Jan 8 2008, 12:43

I Have always rated the 4 magic skills, war machines, and attack as prorities, so logistics tends to be missed out. (this is a a general rule, it varies with races).

On larger maps I get around this by changing the way I play (different to H3). At the start I will always hire a 2nd hero, and though he is little more than a housekeeper, eventually he gets to go further afield.

I will usually recruit higher level heroes as they appear in the tavern, so when they have their own strong forces there is less need for the old style of TP.

I agree that when I first started with H5 I missed the TP / DD combo to allow one or two mega heroes to travrse the map in a day, picking off the enemy as they appeared, but changing the strategy is just as successful. I will also admit that with H3, once I had a large army and TP/DD the game changed from careful exploring to just mopping up.

I like the way these spells have been curtailed, and whenever I hanker for the good old days, I remember how the fun dropped off so quickly.

I think if you favour logistics, and really want to maximise it, make use of boots, and of course no creatures with slow speed.

(Note: I have noticed how extrememly rare it is to find the Angel Wings in maps either fan made or Nival made, now that would help).

Don't forget, H5 is not H3, it is a different game. Not the same game in a different world. There are many similarities that make it easily playable by experienced HoMMers, but it definitely needs different strategies and tactics to win.

I do like the thought behind the "stages" of TP you suggested though. Perhaps someone could make up a mod allowing this - for those who want it.

Bonzer
We will either find a way, or we will make one. Emperor Hannibal.

GrowlingDog
Super Peasant
Super Peasant
Posts: 99
Joined: 18 Jul 2006

Postby GrowlingDog » Jan 8 2008, 12:50

But if u dont play large maps how do u get to experience the higher levels. I like to get to the higher levels, even if i have never seemed to able to get the ultimate level (you know the one in the middle of the skill wheel).
Ok, so lets keep the town portal spell as it is but maybe you could earn it sooner. Also, how about increasing the Logistics ability for the size map you are on. If on a small map, you get say, 200 movement points, then on Xlarge maps, you get 800.
I hate getting midway thru a big game and have to set up a chain link of heroes to bring my new troops. Sure, i could get them sent by caravan but the amount of time that caravans get blocked, it just doesnt seem worth it. Maybe they could have it so rather than your troops travelling by caravan they could be teleported to a designated town. Then i wouldnt need to go back home.
I have seen a lot of talk about imbalance in the H3 way but could it be that because fans got to back up their stocks without much hassle that the game didnt get boring and therefore made it a lot more fun to play. Hence H3 being the benchmark that all others are measured by. New fans of the Heroes franchise may not go for H5 because it gets so boring and tedious trying to move around the map and re-stock your main hero.

User avatar
Jolly Joker
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3316
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Jolly Joker » Jan 8 2008, 12:52

I have a slightly different opinion here: the game is good as it is, however:

you could go the HoMM 2 way and make a mod, giving a modified movement spell like the teleport cheat (making towns as receiving portal unnecessary) as a bonus when getting a specific artifact set (which would quite obviously have "Tear of Asha" quality).
ZZZzzzz....

GrowlingDog
Super Peasant
Super Peasant
Posts: 99
Joined: 18 Jul 2006

Postby GrowlingDog » Jan 8 2008, 13:10

Yea im not saying i dont like the game (hell, wouldnt be here if i didnt), i just think the matter of movement and collecting troops could be done a better way, especially for the big maps. Maybe even get rid of "Instant travel" and replace it with 2 levels of town portal, or maybe "summon troops" could have 2 levels where the 2nd level lets you summon troops from any town you like rather than the one your closest to (nearly always the one i have just conquered and lost a lot of troops to).
For example, i am currently playing "war of the worlds" and have just taken my 2nd castle. I want to move on and explore but i have to wait for about 4 days to restock my troops. This can be a long time at a crucial stage of a map.

GrowlingDog
Super Peasant
Super Peasant
Posts: 99
Joined: 18 Jul 2006

Postby GrowlingDog » Jan 8 2008, 13:17

Woops

HOMMV_N00B
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 55
Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Postby HOMMV_N00B » Jan 8 2008, 17:53

Bonzer wrote:I Have always rated the 4 magic skills, war machines, and attack as prorities, so logistics tends to be missed out. (this is a a general rule, it varies with races).

On larger maps I get around this by changing the way I play (different to H3). At the start I will always hire a 2nd hero, and though he is little more than a housekeeper, eventually he gets to go further afield.

I will usually recruit higher level heroes as they appear in the tavern, so when they have their own strong forces there is less need for the old style of TP.

I agree that when I first started with H5 I missed the TP / DD combo to allow one or two mega heroes to travrse the map in a day, picking off the enemy as they appeared, but changing the strategy is just as successful. I will also admit that with H3, once I had a large army and TP/DD the game changed from careful exploring to just mopping up.

I like the way these spells have been curtailed, and whenever I hanker for the good old days, I remember how the fun dropped off so quickly.

I think if you favour logistics, and really want to maximise it, make use of boots, and of course no creatures with slow speed.

(Note: I have noticed how extrememly rare it is to find the Angel Wings in maps either fan made or Nival made, now that would help).

Don't forget, H5 is not H3, it is a different game. Not the same game in a different world. There are many similarities that make it easily playable by experienced HoMMers, but it definitely needs different strategies and tactics to win.

I do like the thought behind the "stages" of TP you suggested though. Perhaps someone could make up a mod allowing this - for those who want it.

Bonzer


What does TD/DD mean and what is the combo?
I thought that speed only was how much tiles creatures could move. Does it also has an effect in the adventure map?
If you have logictis you can buy a skill that reduces points used to travel ‘rough’ terrain. What is ‘rough’ terrain?

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Jan 8 2008, 19:04

Town Portal and Dimension Door. Both are present in HoMM V as well, but in very limited versions. In previous versions of HoMM, your hero's movement depended on the slowest creature in his army, but not so in HoMM V (at least according to the manual).

I really suggest you take a look at the fan manual. You should have it in the FanDocuments folder in your TotE game directory. If you do not own that game, you can get it here: http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/he ... uals.shtml
Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

HOMMV_N00B
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 55
Joined: 22 Dec 2007

Postby HOMMV_N00B » Jan 8 2008, 20:06

I have the manual, but since it's fandocument, somethings might be wrong, that's why I ask something if I certainly want to be certain.

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Jan 8 2008, 20:37

I don't play large maps very often myself, as travelling for days does get pretty boring.

That's the main problem.
I don't care that much for logistics, though it's a must skill for me, I think it's not that weak with the boots.
I would like only to see a true Town Portal. But indeed it should be limited somehow, because at the moment everyone can have TP. GrowlingDog's idea, with the lvls should be ok.
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

Naki
Blood Fury
Blood Fury
Posts: 475
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Location: Bulgaria
Contact:

Postby Naki » Jan 8 2008, 22:17

Unlike Heroes III, in HOMM V the creatures/army speed does NOT affect adventure map movement of the heroes - it says so in the manual.

User avatar
Dillips
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 13
Joined: 31 Dec 2007

Postby Dillips » Jan 10 2008, 19:20

true
Check out my reviews and news!

http://uk.gamespot.com/users/Chief-Irons

User avatar
Ohma
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 40
Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Location: Eugene, OR (the Vancouver of California's Canada)

Postby Ohma » Jan 10 2008, 21:25

Naki wrote:Unlike Heroes III, in HOMM V the creatures/army speed does NOT affect adventure map movement of the heroes - it says so in the manual.


...and?

I'm sorry if I sound a bit thick but I don't really see how that somehow makes TP/DD any more powerful than in the previous games.
Free IO!!
Cheng I Sao r0xx0rz my 50xx0rz!!
Glory to the Many!
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." -Pravin Lal
We're *ALL* Devo!

tumorbane
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 94
Joined: 30 May 2006

Postby tumorbane » Jan 10 2008, 22:11

tb5841 wrote:On Large maps, I find I never go back to my starting town after about the end of Week 3. It just doesn't seem worth it.

I think the town portal spell made H3 completely imbalanced, and if it could take you to any town in H5, then reaching level 20 significantly before your opponent would basically mean you'd won. I think it should be left as it is.

I don't play large maps very often myself, as travelling for days does get pretty boring.


I've been thinking a lot about the town portal issue. Yes, I like that no one (even me) can go to any town like in HIII with expert earth and town portal, but I hate when I capture another town and it means I can no longer TP back to home base without moving towards it a lot. A fair compromise I think would be at level 15 or so you get the current town portal spell and at level 20 or so you get a spell that will take you back to the town where you built your capitol.

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Jan 10 2008, 22:18

Actually you can pick the TP on lev 21, so I guess 28 will be nice :D

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Jan 11 2008, 1:32

I could never imagine, that there is anybody who dislike's H3's Town Portal. I had found it, to be the most useful spell in the game(along, with Haste and Slow)...
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

User avatar
Jolly Joker
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3316
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Jolly Joker » Jan 11 2008, 6:07

That's the problem with them - they are dominating the game.
ZZZzzzz....

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Jan 11 2008, 13:26

I don't think those spells actually can solve anything. They can mean a good advantage against neutrals, but still... Anyway, one of my biggest problem is that there is no spell that can halve a units movement in H5.
I don't care for DD or Fly that much, but a true Town Portal, it can make an easy and when you already defeated the AI, and can make that annoying "run here and run there" disappear.
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

asuka
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 23 Jan 2008

Postby asuka » Jan 25 2008, 4:34

I think H5's TP is ok. H3's was too strong- I think it made a player with even a slightly superior army win the game almost automatically.

As for the Logistics, in large maps i find the the skill more useful. Because the map is large. :) You tend to save days rather than steps (as in small maps).


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests