Heroes VI Wishlist And Engine Poll

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

Do you think Heroes 6 should use the same engine as 5?

Yes. But give graphics a tweak. More Factions plz!
37
61%
No. Game looks bad enough. Upgrade time baby!
24
39%
 
Total votes: 61

User avatar
Avalon-Eternal
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Dec 2006

Heroes VI Wishlist And Engine Poll

Postby Avalon-Eternal » Dec 16 2007, 22:51

So the last Heroes 5 expansion hit store shelves awhile back, and HoMM Kingdoms has been announced. But considering that the latter game's release is scheduled for spring, it'd probably be safe to say Nival is at least got Heroes 6 on the back burner. So it's time for us fans to speak! And have as much of a positive impact on this future game as possible. Here is my personal suggestions.

Keep the same engine. Just my opinion, but I rather have the same thing, with more content. Now that Heroes 5 is patched and exp'ed, general opinion seems to favor it as a whole. Why waste a year of labor on a new engine?

Two more factions. Double map objects. Heck, a third creature upgrade tree. Gaming has gotten to the point where H5's graphics are fine enough, do some tweaking, but please, don't 3 to 4 or 4 to 5 us were we get new graphics, new engine, and half the content. I want more stuff. Not new graphics. I'll go play a first person shooter for graphical thrills, but in this line of gaming, us hardcores want quality over cheap thrills! Also, (for us old hardcore fans), remember 1 to 2 to 3's progression? It was beautiful. Each time we got some better graphics... but two more factions! And loads of new objects, terrains, and the like. That's what we need. Base 6 should have ten factions, then two exp's for 12.

That'd be awesome.

Swamp team should return, that'd be good. A mix magic warrior type like the dwarfs, with gorgons and the like. Or just do Nagas... whatever.

Ice team would be a nice new addition as well. With yetis and boars and ice giants. :D

Really I don't care what teams they add, or what map objects. But I would love ten factions.

Increase performance on AI turns as well. Polish the game to a shiny glint. It'd be great.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts fellow gamers!

<Beyond Here is Updated>

Here are my thoughts on that ice town I talked about a second ago.

Name: Citadel: Basic Stats, Attack/Spell Power
Theme: An ice themed town, it's in-game image a spiraling mountain with smaller pillars ascending along it's side. The main races of the town are ogres and giants (two races we haven't yet seen in Ashan). The main castle sits on the peak of the main mountain. Think of Stronghold in the snow, with some haven mixed in, i.e stronghold ogres and haven giants.

Hero Type: Pathfinder. Race is Ogre. So we are looking at a more intelligent realization of the race. They've already basically said via unit type on Stronghold that ogres are not a barbarian people, nor do they live to the east with the other tribes there. Maybe I'm reading in a bit too much though.

General Exposition and Coloring: The main colors of the team are Teal, Brown, and Red.

Most non-upgrades I would imagine being garbed in brown furs, or natural hair of the same color. The upgrades, (depending if six has two sets) are either teal or red colored. One flavor being a type that lives on the outside of the mountains, exploring and taming the highlands, who's skin and clothing(?) would be blue and teal, while the other being a type of the creature that lives in the lava filled caves below the mountains' crust, and thus have a reddish color overall. Just for the "awesome effect", mind you.

Unit Tier 1: Boars, similar to those of Heroes 2.

Upgrade 1: Highland Boars who have snow covered coats, giving them the upgrades' set distinct blue coloring.

Upgrade 2: Crag Boars, who have black singed coats.

Reasoning for Tier: The Boars are truly a staple of Heroes 2, I mean, halfings and boars on the same team? You got me right there. They also fit in well with a highland/snow themed town, and mix it up a bit.
Nival has moved away it seems from animals being a part of the factions, save unicorns and other larger, more mythical creatures. The boars would be a sign of willingness to add the flavor back in that was missing from 5 in this regard.

Considering the "Pathfinder" being the faction's hero type, it wouldn't be so strange for a hero to have nothing but boars on initial recruitment. A ogre warrior running around with his pack of tamed mountain dwelling battle-hardened boars? Oh yeah, that's awesome.

Unit Tier 2: Cave Troll. The lanky spear throwing variety. Or could go with the H4 club wielders. Nah'... they always creeped me out...
Ranged unit. Has a limited throwing distance for his spear.

Upgrade 1: Ice Troll. A frozen warrior that excels at skirmish tactics. He has an extended range beyond his base type, but can't shoot across the whole battlefield. To balance this, he should receive a bleeding effect on his attacks that (*Poison*) enemies.

Upgrade 2: Crimson Troll. A caster troll with a weak attack, and both a slowing frost spell and a "damage over time" fire spell.

Reasoning for Tier: Trolls have never found a place in heroes, in a faction. Always loners these poor brutes just want a place to call home... *sniff*... just want to hold on to their mommies... finally at home... well, true, they were in H1's and H2's Barbarian factions, but that was a long time to be away from the baked cookies, apple pie, and images of old ladies knitting sweaters. They need all that back.

Unit Tier 3: Harpies. Much like H3's, they attack, but base Harpies have "No Retaliation" instead of attack and return.

Upgrade 1: Mountain Harpies. Attack and Return, and No Retaliation. Give dungeon something else other then the Furies. Like Wererats. Just kidding!

Upgrade 2: Grave Scouts. No Retaliation, and they get a special ability to fly over to a target within movement range, and make that target unable to move or retaliate against any other creatures. The ability stays in effect until the Grave Scout moves away or attacks another creature.

Sorry it took so long to get this little bit together... it has been a busy few weeks, and I'm now sick, which is pretty much why I was able to get back here. I'll throw up the next four creatures later, along with my ideas for factional spell benefits.

So far, I see this faction being an offensive "Haven" type, with well balanced unit types, including two shooters, two fliers, and three ground. And the ability of the use of spells.

Enjoy what is here to maul over, and thanks for reading. If this cold doesn't let up, maybe I'll update even sooner then I expect. :P
Last edited by Avalon-Eternal on Feb 23 2008, 0:24, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Wulfstan8182
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 220
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: The Heroes Round Table

Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 17 2007, 0:37

yeah! nice job there buddy! that's the time the CH got it! i think they should keep the engine just give the graphics a lil tweak(come on, the hands of peasants look sooo unreal!) and maybe add some nice factions with nagas or somthin like that.
p.s. there are lots of threads like that on HC
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=23953
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24500
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24289
there's even 2 where they are making one!
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24110
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=23581
:hanged: <--- You're the guy hanged if you ever dare to touch my blacksmith!

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Dec 17 2007, 4:20

Excelent ideas.
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

User avatar
Avalon-Eternal
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Dec 2006

Postby Avalon-Eternal » Dec 17 2007, 5:26

Haha, so true about those peasants. Yeah, we've already seen some indication of the Nagas, so hopefully that'll be slated for 6. Thanks for the links as well. ;)

User avatar
Darmani
Designer Baby
Designer Baby
Posts: 470
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA

Postby Darmani » Dec 17 2007, 5:30

You seem to be infected by the idea that more is better. Certainly you'd rather Heroes 6 have 5 factions than 500 factions, no matter how good those 500 are.

These graphics could probably use a downgrade, preferably back to 2D.

User avatar
Mlai
Scout
Scout
Posts: 152
Joined: 08 Dec 2007

Postby Mlai » Dec 17 2007, 13:12

I like the 3D battles and towns. That's where the 3D shined. But the adventure map is annoying in 3D. I'm sure I'm not the only person frustrated with the underworld maps; you spend half your time rotating the stupid map.

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Dec 17 2007, 13:47

I like the 3D now, though in the first weeks of H5 I had some "big rotating days".
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

User avatar
Mirez
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1511
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Location: in the core of the hart of the centre of everything

Postby Mirez » Dec 17 2007, 19:15

the playstyle needs to go back to homm 3
compare tote with other games, it's grapics are quite sucky, though my pc has a hard time playing it as it is
I'd like the land to be like a map not a world and the castles to be like in h5
(yes I play in classic homm vieuw, I don't really like it but it's better then standard)
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

User avatar
Avalon-Eternal
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Dec 2006

Postby Avalon-Eternal » Dec 18 2007, 0:39

Darmani: More is better. If all five-hundred factions were of comparable quality to the eight we have now... why not? More options to the player. So yeah, your right, I'm infected. :ill:

Mlai: Yeah, underground can be a pain.

The camera, overall though, despite the 3D problems, does make a more dynamic experience. Definitely understand the performance problems though.

User avatar
Wulfstan8182
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 220
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: The Heroes Round Table

Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 18 2007, 4:24

i like the 3D, it took me a couple of hours to get used to, but now i just can't realize to play in 2D. Everyone team up on Darmani! :devil: anyway, i don't think more is better but i think we should get like 1 or 2 new factions and maybe like mix the dwarfs with somthin else.. i dunno. dwarfs only have ONE non-dwarf unit which i think is bad. :D get rid of the stupid dark elves and get back the old, awesome dungeon from H3 and KEEP THE SCOUTS AND THE STALKERS! nice discussion guys! :tsup:
:hanged: <--- You're the guy hanged if you ever dare to touch my blacksmith!

User avatar
PhoenixReborn
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2014
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: US

Postby PhoenixReborn » Dec 18 2007, 4:46

Actually one minor thing that frustrates me isn't really an engine issue but a design issue.

In Hiv battles it could be tough to tell what effect was on a unit because something would just float up above the units head...I also vaguely remember an icon on the right.

HV copied the floating numbers and that's bad. I'd rather have information readily available whenever I want it. And the double right click thing in hv to find out unit effects is horrible too.

I'm agreeing with Darmani, 8 is about the upper limit for number of factions I can take...adding more doesn't feel like variety it feels like tedium.

User avatar
klaymen
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 527
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Piestany (Slovakia)

Postby klaymen » Dec 18 2007, 10:30

Avalon-Eternal: more is better? Not in this case. Imagine that you have to create for example 10 factions, each one will have 7 units and each unit will have an upgrade. Or two. That will be 140 (or 210) units, but each faction must not be consisted just from a bunch of random creatures "because you were unable to create a creature that would fit into this or that faction, so you have created at least something"

another problem is the balance - the more factions you will have, the harder will be to balance them all

by the way - the 2D look is a part of the Homam series (i don't count Homam 5 as a fifth part, but as a mod (or remake) of Homam 3 with some good ideas), 3d graphics sucks here, in older Homam games I didn't have any problems just because of the camera view, all was comprendious
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
-Ahzek Ahriman

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Dec 18 2007, 12:06

New engine pls... one that doesn't eat so many resources for so little.


Imagine that you have to create for example 10 factions, each one will have 7 units and each unit will have an upgrade. Or two. That will be 140 (or 210) units, but each faction must not be consisted just from a bunch of random creatures "because you were unable to create a creature that would fit into this or that faction, so you have created at least something"


Oh pls, as if there aren't enough creatures that got left out with all the elves, humans and dwarves in the game... Swamp faction with 3 Nagas (i hope 1 will be a Medusa), some Lizardmen and 1 Dragon (if they're smart they'd go with the Basilisk at 7, ride the Harry Potter wave) is easy lore wise and another Nomad faction, with Gnolls, Harpies, Beholders, Manticores and other assorted monsters with the Behemoth on top can also be done.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
aaelgr
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 258
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Location: England

Postby aaelgr » Dec 18 2007, 12:19

If they don't make a new town (which I think is pretty unlikely) they'll hopefully add some more neutral units, and maybe give them dwelling like in Armageddon's Blade and H4.
I hope they bring back the Medusas. HOMM isn't the same without them. Efreeti would be cool too (but no leprechauns!).
Where's this hint at Naga coming back? I must've blinked and missed it...

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Dec 18 2007, 13:04

aaelgr wrote:Efreeti would be cool too (but no leprechauns!).


Specieist...


And the Naga make sense in the context of being replaced in the Academy by a very similar units that isn't part of the factions race and the fact that the Water Dragon-Goddess doesn't have any faction attached to it... etc.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » Dec 18 2007, 14:19

I'd have to vote for a new engine. Not because the old one looked bad or anything of that nature but:

1. The old engine is very poorly optimized.

2. The old engine isn't configurable enough. Basically there are too many graphics options that you can only configure by editing "ini" files or similar.

3. There wasn't enough care taken with the old engine to make sure that it would play relatively well on older computers.


Basically I'd rather have a H6 with 6 factions out of the box but a great video engine / great game balance / etc. than have an H6 with 12 factions with so-so balance and a game engine that can't handle the largest size maps well.

User avatar
Muszka
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2568
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Nowhereland

Postby Muszka » Dec 18 2007, 19:45

Imagine that you have to create for example 10 factions, each one will have 7 units and each unit will have an upgrade. Or two. That will be 140 (or 210) units, but each faction must not be consisted just from a bunch of random creatures "because you were unable to create a creature that would fit into this or that faction, so you have created at least something"

another problem is the balance - the more factions you will have, the harder will be to balance them all

Heroes III SoD had 8 factions, with the possibility for a nineth, and that was shown in WoG. And one more faction, is comeing in the new WoG, and I'm sure fans could create at least two more.
Upgrades and alternates don't differ that much from original creatures, stat changes plus some abilities, and a mightier name. So the main issues are the base creatures.
But such problems could be resolved with the help of the fans, they would be more than happy to help. And balance could be adjusted in the first patches.
"Rage against the system, the system, what kills the human spirit."

User avatar
Wulfstan8182
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 220
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: The Heroes Round Table

Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 19 2007, 3:35

yeah, raise the roof for ThunderTitan! nice idea of a hmmm... Wilderness faction? nice assortment of untis too. the hero could be a... Werewolf! there! the thread just started and we've some up with a new faction! awesome stuff!
:hanged: <--- You're the guy hanged if you ever dare to touch my blacksmith!

User avatar
klaymen
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 527
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Piestany (Slovakia)

Postby klaymen » Dec 19 2007, 7:25

Muszka wrote:Heroes III SoD had 8 factions, with the possibility for a nineth, and that was shown in WoG. And one more faction, is comeing in the new WoG, and I'm sure fans could create at least two more.


SoD had 9 factions - Castle, Rampart, Towers, Stronghold, Inferno, Necropolis, Fortress, Dungeon and imba Conflux
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."

-Ahzek Ahriman

User avatar
Dacarnix_
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Nov 2007

Postby Dacarnix_ » Dec 19 2007, 9:13

ThunderTitan wrote:Oh pls, as if there aren't enough creatures that got left out with all the elves, humans and dwarves in the game... Swamp faction with 3 Nagas (i hope 1 will be a Medusa), some Lizardmen and 1 Dragon (if they're smart they'd go with the Basilisk at 7, ride the Harry Potter wave) is easy lore wise and another Nomad faction, with Gnolls, Harpies, Beholders, Manticores and other assorted monsters with the Behemoth on top can also be done.


I don't know... It's really not enough to just throw out names of possible creatures to prove that "more factions = better."

From a game-play standpoint, once you reach a certain point, the creatures become cookie cutters of each other with barely-noticeable differences. I'm not saying that any particular number of factions is good or bad, but I think that Darmani's point about 500 factions is just an extreme case to showcase the issue with flooding a game with "different" creatures that really aren't so different.

Personally, I'd rather see broader variety in creature abilities than simply see more creatures. I'd also like to see some more faction flavor in how things play out. Certain creatures are very flavorful while others are just kind of bland. From a practical standpoint, really how different are a Scout and an Archer? A Horned Demon and a Zombie? Even a Green Dragon and Shadow Dragon? I'm not saying that every single Dungeon creature should have poison or invisibility, just that the themes and the feel of some factions are much stronger than others.


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests