(spoiler) TotE C3M4 one of the boss fights

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maltz
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(spoiler) TotE C3M4 one of the boss fights

Unread postby maltz » 15 Nov 2007, 03:18

Wow the Freyda fight is quite hard.
Our troop is crap and the enemy hero spawns puppet master to infinity - and our troop just die faster.
He can counter our dark magics with Vampirism, right.
He can mass anything, right.
Any tip would be appreciated. (I know to spawn light magic to get Vengeance, but it is too weak to catch up the dying rate.)

I have failed about 10 times in a row.

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Unread postby maltz » 15 Nov 2007, 07:08

Argh I probably have to go back to M2 to readjust my build. Shouldn't have split the artifacts with Duncan - they are forever gone!

By the way you can actually pause Freyda (and Wulfstan, Kujin) during the few seconds when they switch to Orange (under your control). Click on somewhere else like mad when they are about to march - and they won't attack the city!

For Freyda, I ended up with not doing the fight because I can't win :P I just let her sit there forever.

For Kujin this is really nice - you can actually access that 900 Cyclops on Gotai. If you pass it to Zehir (who is nearby) he can blast Biara right away with Vampirism and end the mission. Guess this is not what the developer wanted, though.

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Yngvi
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Unread postby Yngvi » 15 Nov 2007, 14:35

You said you let Freyda sit there forever: does this mean you don't need to take out these castles to complete the scenario? I can't even win the first one (with Wulfstan) playing on Hard.

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Unread postby Arveragus » 15 Nov 2007, 17:13

The key to winning with Freyda is her special ability.

If you cast a spell from the light school with Freyda, one of her enemies will be smitten with the Divine Vengeance spell (which is incredibly damaging and will probably kill hundreds of creatures at a time). I lost this battle multiple times, before I used nearly every turn to cast a single target light spell with Freyda (avoid mass spells).

I also used my ultimate retaliation strike ability to good effect by casting it on my angels and flying them straight into enemy lines.

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Unread postby maltz » 15 Nov 2007, 18:23

Yes there is a way not to fight any of them, and actually you can win the mission (hence the game) very soon after this. Under the few seconds that you actually control Wulfstan (or the subsequent guys), left-click on some nearby ground like crazy and they will stop the movement to consider to your order. I will cover it in detail in the walkthrough.

***

May I ask why not to cast Mass Light spells? In my game I also got Divine Vengeance working when I cast Mass spells.

Hm maybe our games are different (heroic, right?)? My divine vengeance kills very little. 8 devils (out of 40+), 70 Sucubbus (out of 280+), for example. Plus sometimes they hit the 1-hp-1-unit stacks left over from Last Man Standing.

And I had only 24 angels... I don't see how they can survive long enough for hero's normal attack to work. How powerful are your Freyda's blows?

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Ya5MieL
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Unread postby Ya5MieL » 15 Nov 2007, 21:40

That was one of the harddest fights i had in any heroes sequel.

At the end of a day i was left with 2 Archangels.

Too bad i didn't save replay of that one like i did with wulfstan and last fight.

I dont know any real tactic to get this battle done, it just happened, my troops were decimated, and then i guess i had luck with divine vengeance hitting the most appropriate stacks. Killed 20 or so daemons in each strike.

Also, 3 stacks of air elementals managed to live quite long.

About 10 last turns i cornered my angels and only creatures that could hit them were 1 pit lord and 1 pit spawn :P... I spared them until i eradicated other troops while casting ressurection on my confused angels+free divine vengeance :).



Btw, if you stop kujin in time, you can attack with gotai instead, and he has 900 cyclopes :)

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Unread postby maltz » 15 Nov 2007, 21:58

Here is the damage formula for Divine Vengeance. I suppose when they are triggered under Freyda it is equivalent to she casting it herself - but maybe not. Let's see.

Inflicts magical damage to selected creature that depends on the number of enemies selected creature killed from the beginning of combat.

The damage inflicted depends on the target's "frags": the number of creatures killed multiplied by their tier. For example, killing 5 peasants gives 5 frags, while killing 1 Paladin gives 6 frags. Killing a summoned creature gives no frag.
In the damage formula, F is the square root of the target's frags.

Expert Level: 6*F*(Power+10)

I could see DV kil about 8-12 Archdevils before it killed half of my troops. After that it killed about 20. This is because they got hit by Frenzy and wiped 120+ Succumbus in their first act, and 10 tier-6 Pit whatever in their second act. This gives a frag of 4 x 120 + 6 x 10 = 540. F about 23 here. Freyda's spell power is about 8 or 9. 6x22x18 = = 2376. Each devil has about 240 HP. So 10 AD killed, about right in the rough estimation.

I don't even remember how my 500 peasants died. Probably by the Succubus. One shot of DV killed about 80 of them, also 2000+ damage. And there are 289 of them to start.

Although there is clearly an easy way around this, I would really love to hear or participate in finding out an effective strategy to win this Freyda fight on heroic. You see, even if you let the Conscripts die by the Devils (500 frag, 2000 damage, 10 devils per shot) you are not really hurting that 40 stack... :|

My current idea is to give up Exp Dark for Exp Sorcery. Sure I won't be able to Frenzy the Devils at the start to kill 120 Succubus and 10 Pit whatever for me, but hey, I can cast more often to (1) remove PM (2) DV the opponents. Right now in my game the enemy hero always act DIRECTLY behind Freyda which is the worst case possible. With Sorcery I can at least shuffle the cards every now and then.

***

(Edited)

Finally finished the campaign! Just like the first (unpopular) reviewer said, it is far more difficult than HoF.

The main reason for the unmatched difficulty is Vampirism "replaces" Puppet Master and Frenzy. Now any AI hero can easily nullify your Dark Magics with Vampirism. If you have more mana (as in the Rolf fight) you will eventually win. If you have less mana (plus a much smaller army) you can only rely on luck.

I don't think it is reasonable to cure Dark Magics with another Dark Magic - if so why do you even need Light Magic?


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