Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Bandobras Took
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 28 2006, 8:02

Further Impressions:

Just finished (essentially) a full game; 1 vs 1 map, Inferno vs. Inferno.

I upgraded my RAM to match the system requirements. No slowdowns, no disconnections.

I won, we clashed in the middle in army vs. army -- no siege combat. His Land Mines and his Balors were particularly nasty, but I had a slight advantage in numbers. It payed off.

Gating can royally screw up the opposition's day if done intelligently.

I could wish for more documentation; it's a little hard to tell how powerful a neutral stack will be.

And I have to agree that the town screen is just confusing; I end up doing everything through the radial menus in the corners instead of clicking on distinct buildings.
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Postby Salisa » Jan 28 2006, 8:41

Well I just lost .. I think I should of won I mean how can 1 angel kill a dragon in one turn? oh well, I thought the numbers looked fairly even but my opponet only lost a few compared to my whole army, it wasn't even close.. My dragon attacked first and the angel flat killed it on the retaliation.. I didn't understand what his griffin's were doing maybe that is why..

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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Veldrynus » Jan 28 2006, 10:20

Psychobabble wrote:I have a bad feeling this is the old "distract the masses with the pretty shiny things" tactic. Graphics shouldn't be the most important thing in a game but it's the first thing that everyone says about it...


Yeah, yeah. The marketing works. The 'good' thing about new 'pretty' graphics is that they can give a game a new and refreshing 'feeling' , while the whole gameplay system of the game still can remain the ancient one. Just like changing clothes. But ,if a whore dresses like a nun, she will stay the same filthy b*tch inside. H5 is more like a H3 'dressed' like Warcraft 3.
Anyway, the graphics of the game look fine, so I am willing to pay all my money to get it. If I need to take a second or even a third job, to get the needed cash, I will do it. If a game has so many shiny stuff inside, it cannot be bad.

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Postby FatalTheRabbit » Jan 28 2006, 10:53

I was disappointed. There are major problems with camera freedom in battle, and within the town as well as control issues. The lyrics to the Haven theme are childishly goofy in much the same way as many unit names are. The town management interface is very awkward, and tedious to sift through. It's nowhere near as well drawn, intuitive, or simplistic as the ones from Heroes III/II.

You should be able to pan the camera around the town with complete freedom instead of being locked on the center building, or the building you're constructing. The same goes for battle mode... you should be able to pan anywhere on the field regardless of the level you are zoomed in. The constant floating text in battle is obnoxious, and there should be an option to remove it. Then there is, of course, the issue with the battle field we've already discussed. Ehh, I'm tired of thinking about this mess for now.
Last edited by FatalTheRabbit on Jan 28 2006, 12:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Jan 28 2006, 10:57

FatalTheRabbit wrote:I'm tired of thinking about this mess for now.


You should keep thinking and suggesting, because that way Nival will now what could to be improved. Of course, there's no need to start splitting hairs.
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Postby FatalTheRabbit » Jan 28 2006, 12:15

I'm not trying to split hairs it's just that the beta has flaws where the previous heroes didn't. I mean you'd think with 4 previous titles in the series to base their work on Nival could produce a decent interface for combat, creature info, and town management, but it probably couldn't have been made much worse.

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Postby theLuckyDragon » Jan 28 2006, 12:22

Oh no, I didn't mean that you did split hairs. I meant to say that if you continue you shouldn't split hairs and try to be objective and helpful.
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Postby FatalTheRabbit » Jan 28 2006, 12:31

Don't worry, I don't intend to be a jerkoff. I do care about the game... quite a bit actually(I'm still playing heroes III!), but after such a long development period seeing the game in this state is kind of demoralizing especialy when the non-technical flaws seem, to me anyway, like no brainers. It just doesn't insprire a lot of confidence in Nival.
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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Arzang » Jan 28 2006, 13:21

Psychobabble wrote:I have a bad feeling this is the old "distract the masses with the pretty shiny things" tactic. Graphics shouldn't be the most important thing in a game but it's the first thing that everyone says about it...


this doesn't have to be bad (although it kinda is in H5's case). graphics are the first thing you see and since everythign is so slow, you kinda notice it.

and is nobody bothered by the fact that battling in duel is way faster than in normal play? the lagg seems to be cut out of duel. maybe they wanted us to primarily test duel mode..

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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Derek » Jan 28 2006, 16:32

Arzang wrote:and is nobody bothered by the fact that battling in duel is way faster than in normal play? the lagg seems to be cut out of duel. maybe they wanted us to primarily test duel mode..


I was thinking the same thing...

Again, wow, luck is way too good in this game. It seems like it comes a good 50% of the time with certain heroes, in duel mode anyways. I never found this a problem in the other heroes games. Frankly it should be looked at. (Lucky Meteor Showers are no laughing matter.)

I get the impression that certain lowe level units are just useless in the late game. 200 Master Gremlins can only kill 1/2 Chaos Hydras, and 60 Footmen can only do 70 damage to a BD. This seems almost like a waste, but maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice if the gremlins were better for something than simply healing Golems.
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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 28 2006, 17:19

Derek wrote:Again, wow, luck is way too good in this game. It seems like it comes a good 50% of the time with certain heroes, in duel mode anyways. I never found this a problem in the other heroes games. Frankly it should be looked at. (Lucky Meteor Showers are no laughing matter.)

I get the impression that certain lowe level units are just useless in the late game. 200 Master Gremlins can only kill 1/2 Chaos Hydras, and 60 Footmen can only do 70 damage to a BD. This seems almost like a waste, but maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice if the gremlins were better for something than simply healing Golems.


On the other hand, in my latest game, 92 Horned Demons took out 5 Balors. I'd call that a pretty good trade. (Speaking of lucky Meteor Showers, does anybody else find the Balor's spellcasting a tad on the too powerful side?)

My imps and familiars were relentlessly slaughtered, but I exepct L1s to die out and lose usefulness. H3's the only game I've seen where L1s could potentially be a factor by the time you got to your upper dwellings.
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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Orfinn » Jan 28 2006, 17:21

Derek wrote:I get the impression that certain lowe level units are just useless in the late game. 200 Master Gremlins can only kill 1/2 Chaos Hydras, and 60 Footmen can only do 70 damage to a BD. This seems almost like a waste, but maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice if the gremlins were better for something than simply healing Golems.


Why not use your lowies against other low level units? If no enemy low lvl units you could always use yours against high lvl units as a distraction or cover.....just wonder can you protect one stack with another like in H4? ;|

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Postby Francesco » Jan 28 2006, 18:18

My impressions about H5 after playing for a while the beta are negative.
I know it's a beta and so it is supposed to be buggy and in no way finished... so I will not complain of lag, speed issues, crashes and other techinichal problems.
But the game has some major flaws:

- Balance, the game is really really unbalanced, not only the economic side but also units, spells, and luck is too poweful..
- The Ai, the ai was not supposed to be in the beta.. but for some reason it is there, and it's really terrible, possibly even worse than the one of H4.
- The battlefield looked really small before playing the game, now that I played it I can say that it feels even smaller than it looks... it's claustrophobic, I do not like also the camera zooming during an attack.. it's nice the first time you see it... but it becomes boring soon.. there should be an option to disable it.
- I do not like in no way the new interface, it took me a while to get me into it but even now that I'm used to it all I can say is that H4 interface was far better, but maybe after playing the game without the current bugs and speed issues I will start to like it a bit more

The thing that disappointed me more than the others is the Ai, I was expecting some good Ai for this game, H4 was unplayable "thanks" to its unconsistent Ai.. I thought Nival was going to keep in mind H4 mistakes and do a challenging Ai.. H5 beta Ai must be a joke, even my dog could play the game better.

Now.. if the game was supposed to go gold in 5 or 6 months than I would not be worried.. there would have been plenty of time to fix things, balance the game and do a good Ai.... but since they were thinking to release this stuff in march ( before delaying it ) I have to be worried.. how could even they think the game was near to be finished? I fear another H4 fiasco..
They have to work hard for a few more months if they want my money.

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Postby FatalTheRabbit » Jan 28 2006, 19:03

Low teir units retaining usefullness is one of the best things about Heroes III gameplay compared to other strategy games, and it should be the same with heroes V.
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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Derek » Jan 28 2006, 19:15

Bandobras Took wrote:On the other hand, in my latest game, 92 Horned Demons took out 5 Balors. I'd call that a pretty good trade. (Speaking of lucky Meteor Showers, does anybody else find the Balor's spellcasting a tad on the too powerful side?)

My imps and familiars were relentlessly slaughtered, but I exepct L1s to die out and lose usefulness. H3's the only game I've seen where L1s could potentially be a factor by the time you got to your upper dwellings.


The Balor seems to be the best unit in the game. It can go melee, so don't get too close, and it can cast destructive AOE magic, so don't go into the corners. It is the only unit that truly begs to be balanced. Vorpal Sword(!)...give me a break.

I prefer for l1 units to be good for a time, but they don't even seem to be a factor later on. I would like it if they could do something other than be a distraction. As of right now, imps are only there for retaliation taking.

Aside from Balors, the units that need balancing, improving or otherwise, are as follows:
Dark Matriarchs (High HP, but they cannot seem to do anything other than casting weak curses. Does anyone know what's good about them?)
Chaos Hydras (Not enough damage for how slow they are. The tradeoff is not good enough.)
Low level units in general. (Stated above no less.)

I'll be trying to do a 'real' map soon enough, but the time it takes seems to be taking the wind out of my sail.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jan 28 2006, 19:25

Francesco wrote:- Balance, the game is really really unbalanced, not only the economic side but also units, spells, and luck is too poweful..


Specifics are needed. Without too many details (NDA and all), does the Haven have an easier time building its town than the Academy? Which units outclass the others of their level, and are they consistently in the same town? Which spells need toning down or buffing?

Francesco wrote:- The Ai, the ai was not supposed to be in the beta.. but for some reason it is there, and it's really terrible, possibly even worse than the one of H4.


I assume you're talking about the combat AI. You can't even have a computer player in the game. But they included a duel mode specifically so people could tinker around with combat strategies and balance. The combat AI for multiplayer games is there so that you can experiment with various abilities.

Francesco wrote:- I do not like in no way the new interface, it took me a while to get me into it but even now that I'm used to it all I can say is that H4 interface was far better, but maybe after playing the game without the current bugs and speed issues I will start to like it a bit more.


Speeding up will help there. But what specifically about the interface did you not like? Town screens seem to be the most common complaint. Personally, I have a tough time figuring out the logic behind some of the hotkeys.

Francesco wrote:The thing that disappointed me more than the others is the Ai, I was expecting some good Ai for this game, H4 was unplayable "thanks" to its unconsistent Ai.. I thought Nival was going to keep in mind H4 mistakes and do a challenging Ai.. H5 beta Ai must be a joke, even my dog could play the game better.


Permit me to quote from the readme that came with the Beta: "• The AI has been disabled in this version to allow multiplayer games only."

You haven't seen the complete H5 AI because it isn't there. All you've got is a hasty combat AI.

Francesco wrote:Now.. if the game was supposed to go gold in 5 or 6 months than I would not be worried.. there would have been plenty of time to fix things, balance the game and do a good Ai.... but since they were thinking to release this stuff in march ( before delaying it ) I have to be worried.. how could even they think the game was near to be finished? I fear another H4 fiasco..
They have to work hard for a few more months if they want my money.


And that's precisely what they're doing, as far as I can tell. You have to have some sort of delivery date in order for the various design units to set goals. Ubi, recognizing that problems have cropped up, reassigned for a later date. Delaying a game and rushing it are mutually exclusive.

In other words, I think most of your fears are essentially groundless. I wouldn't worry about them.

If we had crappy AI in a demo, that would be cause for alarm. :)
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Postby Francesco » Jan 28 2006, 20:15

Bandobras Took wrote:I assume you're talking about the combat AI. You can't even have a computer player in the game. But they included a duel mode specifically so people could tinker around with combat strategies and balance. The combat AI for multiplayer games is there so that you can experiment with various abilities.

Permit me to quote from the readme that came with the Beta: "• The AI has been disabled in this version to allow multiplayer games only."

You haven't seen the complete H5 AI because it isn't there. All you've got is a hasty combat AI.


I'm sorry, but I'm not talking about the combat Ai.
They said that Ai would have been disabled in the beta, but it's not and you CAN have computer players in the game, and they really suck.. as I said.. playing against my dog would be more challenging... so as you see.. there's reason to be worried.

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Postby Derek » Jan 28 2006, 20:54

Francesco wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm not talking about the combat Ai.
They said that Ai would have been disabled in the beta, but it's not and you CAN have computer players in the game, and they really suck.. as I said.. playing against my dog would be more challenging... so as you see.. there's reason to be worried.


Ummm...how do you have a comp opponent? I haven't heard about it, and I assume you're not doing anything illegal here, so what is this all about?
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Postby RK » Jan 28 2006, 20:57

First impression after trying the open beta demo.
It's pretty much unplayable currently for the map 1 v 1 battle where you explore around.
Takes too long to go around and the long pause before the army moves in exploration mode is laughable. I played 2 turns with my friend, and we simply said forget it, play Duels because it's a less pain in the ass.

Graphical wise:
The new 3d combat engine works fine. Full marks on doing that right. I thoroughly enjoyed looking at them and seeing how they play with some random 'auto-zoom' feature when units spell cast etc.

The new 3d exploration mode feels clumsy and unfinished. The neutral stacks looked too small while the resources looked too big.

The only thing both me and my friend really went into is the duel mode.
My experience on this mode is slightly imbalanced on the default stacks & spell books.
The new inferno is ridiculously overpowered with Fire element being thrown here and there, for easier play of beating opponents or your first time, pick the Demons. Good luck finding any opponents besides the same side as you.

The warlock is good. Maybe too good on the spell side, but not as crazy as the infernal. A mix of black dragon, chaos hydras, dark elves etc etc liven things up. However on the terms of competitiveness and FUN gameplay I salute the two final side featured in the duel mode.

Wizard & Knight. These two sides looked soooo awfully underpowered compared to the earlier two sides. But when these 2 factions fight each other, expect a realllly good fight. I love it, me and my buddy just burned 4 hours past midnight beating each other with the given units. There is nothing overpowering about them yet they still felt 'solid' when you picked the right strategy to employ. Plenty of nice tactical spell compared to the raw dmg nukes Deamon is given. IMO I would be spending more time with these two when the full game is out.

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Re: Heroes V Impressions: Post yours here

Postby Gaidal Cain » Jan 28 2006, 21:08

Orfinn wrote:Why not use your lowies against other low level units? If no enemy low lvl units you could always use yours against high lvl units as a distraction or cover.....just wonder can you protect one stack with another like in H4? ;|


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