Word of Light

[Caradoc]

Is there a more disappointing spell than Word of Light? I build up my guild hoping for Resurrection only to get stuck with this useless spell. It is pitifully underpowered for level 5 and highly limited in its application. The only thing worse is that lousy ring that counters it.

[Jolly Joker]

I agree.
I already suggested a year ago to make Word of Light and Curse of the Netherworld Light/Dark based ABILITIES and replace them as spells with Regeneration and Vampiric Touch. As an (advanced) ability it COULD be picked if it made sense - and CotN would still be a lot better than WoL due to being effective against twice as many opponents.

[Caradoc]

I would favor having some sort of 'Turn Undead' spell or ability at a lower level, perhaps 3 so it could be accessed via Arcane Insight. It could kill some of the lower level evil creatures and sap initiative for the higher level ones.

What I think Light Magic needs at level 5 is a Divine Intervention that would gate in some ArchAngels.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

What I think Light Magic needs at level 5 is a Divine Intervention that would gate in some ArchAngels.

I think summoning spells should be the domain of the *ahem* summoning school.

But I do agree that Word of Light could be replaced or have an additional effect. How about keeping the damage like it is and have it also give a damage bonus to your troops against undead and infernal? Or it could also lower the attack/defense of undead and infernal a bit.

GOW

[MistWeaver]

I felt same way about "Hypnotize" in H2..

[King Imp]

I personally think the basic premise of the Curse of the Netherworld and Word of Light spells are a good one, but for some unknown reason these people at Nival can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that it doesn't do nearly enough damage.

It's a Level 5 spell for God's sake and it does as much, if not less damage than a Level 1 Eldrich Arrow or Level 2 Ice Bolt. It is common sense that it needs to be made stronger, but they don't seem to understand that.

[erased. over. out]

Is there a more disappointing spell than Word of Light? I build up my guild hoping for Resurrection only to get stuck with this useless spell. It is pitifully underpowered for level 5 and highly limited in its application. The only thing worse is that lousy ring that counters it.

They should definitely improve the Word of Light spell. Perhaps it should heal (not resurrect) all your troops whilst dealing damage to the enemy at the same time? Now, THAT would be useful: especially when you have Angels and Paladins running low on health. Yet, it still wouldn't be worthy of a 5th level spell.

[Caradoc]

What I think Light Magic needs at level 5 is a Divine Intervention that would gate in some ArchAngels.

I think summoning spells should be the domain of the *ahem* summoning school.

GOW

Summoning gets you elementals. I'm suggesting that the Archangels come to help a hero in need. The effect is the same, but not so different than Gating of Pit Lords or Necromancy or Phantom Forces.

[Jolly Joker]

King Imp, the basic premise of that spell sucks because you can use it only against 2 out of a possible 7 opponents. That means it's an unusable spell as soon as you bring randomness into the game (playing some normal MP map). So clearly that's something that shouldn't be allowed to randomly fill your one and only Light Magic level 5 slot when you play, for example, as Sylvans against Fortress, Dungeon, and Academy, no matter the amount of damage it did when you COULD use it.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

What I think Light Magic needs at level 5 is a Divine Intervention that would gate in some ArchAngels.

I think summoning spells should be the domain of the *ahem* summoning school.

GOW

Summoning gets you elementals. I'm suggesting that the Archangels come to help a hero in need. The effect is the same, but not so different than Gating of Pit Lords or Necromancy or Phantom Forces.

Well, Summon Elementals is the most useless spell in the game, so that's no comfort. It is about to be even more useless when the next HOF patch hits.

There is Divine Intervention already in the game as a skill. The light magic skill Guardian Angel calls an angel to come resurrect your most powerful stack (probably your uber stack of paladins) when you are about to face defeat.

Having Archangels in your army, the ability to summon archangels, and Guardian Angel for a backup would seem to make you immortal.

GOW

[Jolly Joker]

Well, Summon Elementals is the most useless spell in the game
GOW

Sure. Whatever.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Well, Summon Elementals is the most useless spell in the game
GOW

Sure. Whatever.

Now JJ, didn't you just complain about the random usefulness of Word of Light?

What's more random than Summon Elemental? You get a random stack of random elementals that appear in a random place with poor initiative. The only other random thing Nival could have done was to make them act randomly.

And the latest patch is supposed to make the AI ignore them (as well they should because they are no threat) so they are no longe even useful as a distraction.

GOW

[Jolly Joker]

The latest patch is meant to ignore them if the AI can kill the rest of the army fast. That is, if you have a Golem and a stack of Elementals the AI will kill the golem instead of the elemental now. It doesn't mean it will ignore the Elementals on principle (which wouldn't be wise anyway). Air Elementals have an init of 17, Water Elementals still an init of 10 and they do a crapload of damage with Circle of Winter, Fire Elementals are nasty as well. Only Earth Elementals are too slow and pretty much useless without any initiative enhancing features.
The manual still says that summons depend on terrain, but doesn't explain the rules for that. There are 6 terrains which probably means that each terrain may summon randomly more than one Elemental - Snow, for example might summon every elemental except fire, or only air and water, I actually have no idea.
The only snag I see, though, is the fact that Earth Elemental are too low on init AND too low on damage.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Summon Elementals is a level 4 spell. It is the worst level 4 spell. The stacks are all too small and take too long to act and appear at a random location.

You only get so many spells. You can't control the terrain you fight on. Summon Elementals doesn't really seem to depend on the terrain you fight on. I've seen all the elementals on all different terrain types.

The only time Summon Elementals is useful is as a distraction. Now the AI will ignore it as that so SE has no use.


SE used to be a good spell before the nerf stick hit it.

Here are the other level 4 spells:

Dark Magic: Frenzy, Blndness

Destruction: Chain LIghtning, Meteor Shower

Light: Magical Immunity, Teleportation

Rune: (dwarf racial) Rune of Resurrection, Thunderclap

Summoning: Firewall, Summon Elementals

Now tell me that summon elementals is not underpowered. I could list the lower level spells and it is underpowered compared to them as well.

Useless.

GOW

[Jolly Joker]

Yes, all of that makes the spell of course a lot more useless than a level 5 spell you cannot use against 5 out of 7 opponents (and that's not counting neutrals).

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Yes, all of that makes the spell of course a lot more useless than a level 5 spell you cannot use against 5 out of 7 opponents (and that's not counting neutrals).

Yes it does because Summon Elementals is useless against 7 out of 7 opponents, thanks to the dreaded Nival Nerf Stick.

GOW

[MistWeaver]

And how about Raise Dead, is it accualy usefull (apart of small fights with neutrals )?

[Mirez]

it works vs mummy's

[King Imp]

King Imp, the basic premise of that spell sucks because you can use it only against 2 out of a possible 7 opponents. That means it's an unusable spell as soon as you bring randomness into the game (playing some normal MP map). So clearly that's something that shouldn't be allowed to randomly fill your one and only Light Magic level 5 slot when you play, for example, as Sylvans against Fortress, Dungeon, and Academy, no matter the amount of damage it did when you COULD use it.

True. How about a line of code for Nival to put in that they would undoubtedly screw up?

Something along the lines of (this is not actual code, just an example): If Inferno and Necropolis towns do not exist on map, then Word of Light is disabled for Magic Guilds.
Same for the other way: If Academy, Dungeon, Fortress, Haven, and Sylvan towns do not exist on map, then Curse of the Netherworld is disabled for Magic Guilds.

I'm sure there would be a way for an experienced programmer to code that in and then increase the amount of damage these spells do.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

And how about Raise Dead, is it accualy usefull (apart of small fights with neutrals )?

The level 2 raise dead is of course very useful for necormancers. It is somewhat useful to others (but not for constructs and such) although the raised creatures disappear after battle. It can also be used to for example heal a phoenix that is about to die (saving the initiative and location of the phoenix if it is in a tactical position.)

GOW