Strategy question: Gold or Experience

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Postby Pol » Apr 9 2007, 21:23

Could be important factor possiblity to transfer game money into real? :devious:
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Postby Alamar » Apr 9 2007, 21:32

TT gave the right answer ... it depends on what you need. You have to look at the map type, difficulty, etc. to make your desicion each time you run across a chest.

For small maps where you meet early maybe its more important to take much more gold than XP. For Heroic difficulty maps where you won't meet for a LONG time you may take more gold than XP so you can keep your economy going.

If you're looking for "what I would do most of the time" type of advice then on Large heroic maps take the gold. On small maps take the XP.

If you play often enough you'll have a VERY good idea when you need to take gold or XP.

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Postby asandir » Apr 10 2007, 6:43

it is a toss up, but in most occasions I take exp unless I'm super cash-strapped, but it most certainly depends on the map and any restrictions
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Postby sezerp » Apr 10 2007, 7:59

Banedon wrote:
Suppose two players play, me and you. You take experience, I take gold. We meet in a final battle where you, courtesy of the experience, are level 21. However, because I took gold, I reached the (say) Emerald Dragon dwelling a week before you did, thus having an extra two Emerald Dragons on the battlefield EDIT: while being level 20. Which would affect the battle more? Obviously the dragons.


Obviously ? Not quite. Let's say you have 2 dragons more - you have 2 and I have none :-) But I have more Master Hunters, Druids, Unicorns and Treants. How ? At the beginning I took exp, so reached lvl 10 much, much faster and even though I could buy less troops I used them with higher efficiency (Luck, spells, increased stats etc.) and had less looses, still could cover enough ground. Only as the exp required to level up raises your hero will start to catch up.

And it may happen I have one creature more on my Favourite Enemy list than you, because I happen to be one lvl higher.

At later stage exp. from chest doesn't help much anymore. But how much 2000 gold help at week 1? Sometimes a lot. Sometimes: none at all, because you bought your troops anyway and can't build as you don't have wood (for example).
So you see, the only reasonable answer is: 'it depends'.

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Postby Banedon » Apr 10 2007, 9:25

Obviously ? Not quite. Let's say you have 2 dragons more - you have 2 and I have none :-) But I have more Master Hunters, Druids, Unicorns and Treants. How ? At the beginning I took exp, so reached lvl 10 much, much faster and even though I could buy less troops I used them with higher efficiency (Luck, spells, increased stats etc.) and had less looses, still could cover enough ground. Only as the exp required to level up raises your hero will start to catch up.


Why should you have the advantage on the battlefield? You may have a higher level hero but you have a smaller army; I have a lower level hero but a larger army. I should equally win battles without losses. In fact, I should have more Druids, Unicorns and Treants because I'll reach them earlier than you (Master Hunters we should have roughly the same amount).

And it may happen I have one creature more on my Favourite Enemy list than you, because I happen to be one lvl higher.


If a skill is crucial (as in Avenger when there're a lot of natural foes around), you can expect me to have it as well.

At later stage exp. from chest doesn't help much anymore. But how much 2000 gold help at week 1? Sometimes a lot. Sometimes: none at all, because you bought your troops anyway and can't build as you don't have wood (for example).
So you see, the only reasonable answer is: 'it depends'.


You can reasonably expect to find loose stacks of wood around in the first week, especially near your Sawmill. Even if there's no difference, you should start stockpiling Gold for future use. 'It depends' as an answer is irrefutable of course, but the times when you take Experience are rare indeed (in serious play).

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Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 10 2007, 11:12

Banedon, why would the higher lvl hero only be 1 lvl more?! And remember that a higher lvl hero would help with creeping in the beginning (spells/pathfinding/hero attack), which could mean he gets more mines/towns etc. something that would close the gold gap later on.
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Postby Banedon » Apr 10 2007, 14:08

Because the experience difference between level 20 and level 21 can only be bridged by a large number of treasure chests, something you won't find in a typical game.

And yes, a high-level hero will help with early-game creeping but creatures are more important. For example, will it help more to have a level 4 hero instead of a level 3 hero, or an extra 4 Druids? If the level difference is small, then maybe a level 5 hero instead of level 3.

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Postby Jolly Joker » Apr 10 2007, 14:31

I don't think you can answer this generally.
For example, you may be desperate to get Tactics when playing Dungeon to be able to reach the other baseline with your Blood Furies and be able to finish shooters without losses, especially, when you have an open offense slot and there is the chance to get Tactics with that next level-up . That may justify taking XP from a chest, even if this means disrupting the building process for the time being, because the level-up my be critical and reap a lot more benefits than the investment into the economy.
So even and especially on Heroic difficulty there may be situations where you need a crucial level-up more than the money for your economy.
In the end, comparing hero levels with army size is not really feasible; the level of your hero will depend from the number of creature stacks you have battled when you fight against the opponent, not from the number of chests you took XP for, while your army will depend on a combination of avoiding losses, building your town in an optimal way and having the cash to hire out when the time of battle has come.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 10 2007, 14:56

Banedon wrote:If the level difference is small, then maybe a level 5 hero instead of level 3.


Depends on what skills the hero has.
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Postby sezerp » Apr 11 2007, 6:55

Banedon wrote:Why should you have the advantage on the battlefield? You may have a higher level hero but you have a smaller army; I have a lower level hero but a larger army. I should equally win battles without losses. In fact, I should have more Druids, Unicorns and Treants because I'll reach them earlier than you (Master Hunters we should have roughly the same amount).


Just how much bigger your army will be? If I balance gold/exp equation well I can build everything I want and have higher level hero - then I clearly win. And that's my point - you neither take always gold or exp. You take what brings you higher benefit. And IMHO exp. quite often gives you more than gold.

Banedon wrote:If a skill is crucial (as in Avenger when there're a lot of natural foes around), you can expect me to have it as well.


Then you don't have sth. else I have. Maybe not so crucial, but still helping me. Like one level of Attack or Defence.

Besides: as the diff in lvl will diminish with time, so will be diff. in creature counts. OK you build Druids one week earlier and have few more. How much does it matter if there is about a 50 in each of our armies ? About as much as 1 lvl of hero I would say :-)

Banedon wrote:You can reasonably expect to find loose stacks of wood around in the first week, especially near your Sawmill. Even if there's no difference, you should start stockpiling Gold for future use.


Firstly: as often as not, you don't find any free resources on map. Secondly: if there are such resources then you can just as well expect loose stacks of gold and then you don't need the gold from Tresure Chests so desperately.

Stockpiling of gold you don't need at the moment for future use sounds like good idea in general, but in Economy there's also sth. called 'alternative cost'. Simply speaking: its benefit from the opportunities lost due to your financial decisions.
In HoMM world: you find Tresure Chest. You don't need that gold now as you can't build anyway (because: already build today, missing other resources, nothing to build). You can save the gold in hope it will help you later (assuming Week of the Plague doesn't come...) Or: you can spend it here and now to develop you hero increasing your creeping efficiency immediately, which will help you especially if 'missing resources' is the reason you can't build.

Banedon wrote:'It depends' as an answer is irrefutable of course.

Exactly. As opposed to statements like:
- 'obviously the dragons will dominate the battle' - no, in many cases they won't
- 'one should always take gold' - no, it's at best 'one should prefer gold but consider exp too'.[/b]

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Postby Ya5MieL » Apr 11 2007, 8:41

I think i will stick to gold... it seems to be better choice in 90% cases.

for 6 random chests it would be roughly 9000 gold vs 6000 exp,.. and in my eyes 9000 gold is much better.

Note: of course it depends on situation, its just that situations when i need gold are happening much often than those when i need experience.

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Postby Mytical » Apr 11 2007, 8:59

I have a bad habit of early taking the experience, and later taking the gold. This tends to get me some small level boosts early on, and seems to make a huge difference. Like for instance the difference between Basic Attack and expert attack (if you get lucky and are playing a more offensive type town). Or from just basic logistics to basic logistics, basic light magic, and basic something else. To be specific I choose exp on the chests that offer like 1000 gold. The experience usually puts my hero over to the next level, while the gold would not be a huge help. So while I maybe like 2000 gold behind, I am 2 levels higher..seems a fair trade to me.
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Postby Banedon » Apr 11 2007, 9:44

Just how much bigger your army will be? If I balance gold/exp equation well I can build everything I want and have higher level hero - then I clearly win. And that's my point - you neither take always gold or exp. You take what brings you higher benefit. And IMHO exp. quite often gives you more than gold.


Balance everything well and that would be equivalent to my original stance :)

Then you don't have sth. else I have. Maybe not so crucial, but still helping me. Like one level of Attack or Defence.

Besides: as the diff in lvl will diminish with time, so will be diff. in creature counts. OK you build Druids one week earlier and have few more. How much does it matter if there is about a 50 in each of our armies ? About as much as 1 lvl of hero I would say :-)


Or then again, your one level might be a level of Scouting or Pathfinding or Estates or Silent Stalker. The difference will be there of course, but not much.

As for the Druids, you won't have 50 in your army because in a normal game the battle won't last that long. Fought in the first week of the second month, you might have 30 Druid Elders, nothing more. If a map's so large that the battle involves 300 Druids, there ought also be other castles around and I could get more Druids from those.

Firstly: as often as not, you don't find any free resources on map. Secondly: if there are such resources then you can just as well expect loose stacks of gold and then you don't need the gold from Tresure Chests so desperately.


I don't know why, but there tends to be less free Gold around than Wood (or else you use Gold a lot faster than Wood).

Stockpiling of gold you don't need at the moment for future use sounds like good idea in general, but in Economy there's also sth. called 'alternative cost'. Simply speaking: its benefit from the opportunities lost due to your financial decisions.


Yes, that's why I say pick Gold unless you are very sure you don't need the gold. Maybe you can't build anything today because you've done so already; the gold can allow you to build tomorrow. Or maybe hire another hero. If you have 10,000 gold and 0 of every other resource with no loose resources in sight, building in the future wouldn't really be possible. Then I'd take Experience too.

And while 'it depends' is never wrong, it's also distinctively unhelpful (should I buy my 40 Archangels or save the money, even though I have nothing to do with it? ~It depends. If you can win without the Archangels, why bother?). I prefer to say 'pick gold all the time unless you are very sure you don't need the gold'.

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Postby sylvanllewelyn » Apr 28 2007, 0:53

My first instinct was "this guy's a newbie" or "this guy doesn't want to think for himself, doesn't even bother to clarify or ask more specific questions". Of course "it depends", but that's an equally lazy answer to a (possibly) lazy question. Clarity of thought is important in a turn-based game.

I guess the best answer is to give examples that I can think of:
- small map, academy, rush enemy with magic: obviously experience
- lhuge map, lots of towns, haven: obviously gold

Here's an easy task: when do you anticipate to fight your opponant, and what kind of hero/army you believe you'll be facing, what you want to be facing that army/hero with, and how you are going to get it. Anticipate what you need, set it as a goal, and the rest are maxi-min decisions. Have a strategy and stick to it.

A rule of thumb: whatever helps you clear the creeps faster. Remember snowball effect when developing.

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Postby Orfinn » Apr 28 2007, 13:24

This is a deep dilemma. On tiny-small maps i go for gold 70% of the time especially if 1500-2000, if experience I go only for 500-1000xp.

On larger maps I go for gold 40-50% of the time and experience 50-70%
Since I need a stronger hero on larger maps and f.example logistics as skill to propel me faster towards the enemy before they claim territory from me its obvious experience is first hand, I can get gold from elsewhere, treasure from neutral stacks, town income, artifacts and some hero skills.

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Postby Caradoc » Apr 29 2007, 19:28

You are asking the wrong question. The real question is do you want the skills you would acquire with more experience or what you could buy with the additional gold?

(BTW: I have seen an excellent proof that for 1000g chests you should always take the gold.)
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Postby RommeL_666 » May 11 2007, 0:46

question: ok I agree gold over exp but what about other resources,wtf do I need gold when I havent got the crystal for the building!!!

need answer on this!
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Postby ThunderTitan » May 11 2007, 11:16

Depends on when you'd get the crystal...


The real question is do you want the skills you would acquire with more experience or what you could buy with the additional gold?


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Postby RommeL_666 » May 11 2007, 12:23

ThunderTitan wrote:Depends on when you'd get the crystal...


The real question is do you want the skills you would acquire with more experience or what you could buy with the additional gold?


QFT/QFE


so maybe we should add ...resources to the title of this post,beacuse even if you have gold that marketplace is sick with hones trade :|

I really want to hear your opinion about resources
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jeff wrote:Me to, I usually hire the two best looking female heroes. Ok a bit of a sexist, but if I am going to stare a pictures all day, I might as well enjoy the view. :devious:

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Postby qiox » May 11 2007, 15:50

(GoldOnHand<50k?gold:(xpToLevel>15k?gold:(atXpCap?gold:XP)))


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