Planning to Buy ‘Tribes of the East?’

[PhoenixReborn]

Don't get me wrong: I'm gratefull that they will make it, I am just not happy that I have to pay twice for the same product .
krs

Well you aren't paying for the same product. Stand alone means you don't require the Heroes V cd or the Heroes V hof cd to run the game. It doesn't mean that you get the campaigns from those games. And it remains to be seen whether the skirmish maps from those games will be available, though I think they will be.

[ThunderTitan]

In heroes 2 all Heroes are humans

Yup, there's green humans, blue humans, tusked humans etc.

And God forbid they do something different and include some not bipedal heroes in there somewhere.

Race based towns are much better than the childish mix of creatures from other heroes games.

So being different then every other game is childish now? I'll have to remember that.

[Apocalypse]

So being different then every other game is childish now? I'll have to remember that.

It's not about being different, it's about that the game looks like a childish game... it's not 'real' enough (do you see that we humans live with aliens, or something like that?). To add some spooky monsters and a pink dragon with no connection and some other spooky creatures (no real culture...) is childish for me.

You can also make a game with Panda Bears as creatures... it WILL be different than any other game, but different in a childish aspect.

[ThunderTitan]

Haven;t you heard, games are for children.... grown-ups kill one another for real because they don't live with aliens.

And since when are Panda Bears not 'real'.... childish i get, it's not like one of then could tear your head off with minimal effort. (and speaking of pandas, any War3 fans around)

[Apocalypse]

I was talking about a Panda Bear faction, maybe even Panda Bears that can talk

Haven;t you heard, games are for children

All of them? Really? I don't think those Military or Horror games (Battlefield, Doom 3, etc) are for children

[Gaidal Cain]

Yup, there's green humans, blue humans, tusked humans etc.

You forgot the most imprortant ones: the squirrel humans...

[ThunderTitan]

I was talking about a Panda Bear faction, maybe even Panda Bears that can talk

*Watches as rabid War3 fans descend upon unsuspecting victim.*

All of them? Really? I don't think those Military or Horror games (Battlefield, Doom 3, etc) are for children

Man, i loved playing the DOOM shareware demo when i was in first grade. And Battlefield?

You forgot the most important ones: the squirrel humans...

We do not talk about the squirrels... EVER.

[Apocalypse]

Man, i loved playing the DOOM shareware demo when i was in first grade. And Battlefield?

You may have loved playing them but that doesn't mean adults are not supposed to play them. After all, they don't have any childish elements in them (BattleField 2, at least, is real)

Anyway, I think this goes really off topic

[okrane]

tribes of the east... what's that?

[ThunderTitan]

After all, they don't have any childish elements in them (BattleField 2, at least, is real)

Yup, respawning and anyone being able to drive a tank = real.

Anyway, I think this goes really off topic

Don't worry, they're used to it by now.



@okrane

It's those annoying ppl with the slanted eyes and slightly yellow pigmentation in their skin. They're all living in tribes and build huge tents apparently.

[Starbatron]

I fail to see how a game being "real" should apply to a fantasy game. How "realistic" are griffins and angels in your "best faction" = haven? Yes, just the other day, I was out griffin watching...

[Orfinn]

Barbarian: Evil fairytale creatures

Im so tired of barbarians being stamped as evil, they fit as neutral along with the dwarves in H5 and they very well prove that in the 2nd expansion. The Orcs want to get rid of the demons but at the same time hates some of the other races = neutral wit ha few drops of evil or good in the right situations.

[Apocalypse]

Nonono, you don't get it! It's not the (childish) good-evil aspect, Evil not always allies with evil to fight against good! Evil can fight against each other, but that does not mean it is good or neutral

[Zamolxis]

A bit late with the answer, but I was off the forums for a week:

Nothing is good or evil per se or per definition.

I believe saving a helpless child from drowning is good enough to be labeled as "Good". Passing by a mother holding a child, and suddently stabbing that child in her arms is bad enough to be labeled as "Evil". No matter how you put it, there IS good and bad in real life, even though there may be not so easy to find a definition (especially one that would make you happy). I think it was you who saw only "bad" in what the Americans did in Irak, while in reality the situation is just "grey" - as they didn't go there to slaughter everyone and make the country their 51st state.

So, if there is good and bad out there, why can't that be also in a game? I didn't ask for ABSOLUTE Good or ABSOLUTE Evil. I just asked for Good enough to able to label it as Good, to create a contrast with the Evil. The game lacks (real) contrasts for my taste. It's greedy guys wanting to conquer vs. greedy guys wanting to conquer. Big plot. *grin* Here and there you find sb. backstabbin'/betraying the main hero - what you'd probaly call a "twist" in the plot - but they anyway betray a hero who already gave me enough reasons to not care anymore if he/she gets backstabbed or not.

Good and evil comes with actions only - and with actions of those who have a choice. Otherwise it's completely meaningless and devoid of sense. With things always good or bad you have no story because you have no characters. You have a story only, when characters are on the brink of something, when they see the alternatives and have to make a decision.

This is just your personal, particular opinion, which is - sorry - quite narrow I must say. This might be the reason why you actually reject the best sold books and biggest blockbusters out there (like LOTR and the likes). But if the majority of people loved those books/movies, this should tell you that - for their taste - they found more of a story in there, then you found in Heroes V for example (I'll never forget how zealous you were trying to shut my mouth one year ago - when I was expressing my fears regarding the H5 storyline - telling me how "original", "interesting", deep & multi-layered, with twists & turns the H5 campaigns are. It all turned out to be a big disappointing bluff, for not only me but so many other players - not to mention ww game magazine reviewers).

I know you like to think for yourself that you're intelligent "above the average", and you probably take even pride in the fact that your tastes are different than those "of the mob". But is that so? Are your testes really "superior"? I'm not saying they aren't. I'm just saying you can't actually know. Maybe you're just looking at it from a very subjective pov, therefore maybe you should stop telling people how things SHOULD be, what they SHOULD like, how should they see good & evil. If some people like - ASIDE from other plots - also the good vs evil plot, who are you to come and preach about "there is no good & evil", "grey is best", so they should stop asking for what they want - just because you told them "what is best" and they should start liking and enjoying that.

This is true BOTH ways, Zam. Something that is ALWAYS and per definition evil is just as boring as something that's per definition good. So the best is GREY, because grey can either become black or white, and in the world of Homm (and probably in reality as well) it depends on the so-called leaders whether things start to get more black or more white.

What can be more boring than a grey world? This world would be such a sad, pessimistic place (not to mention chaotic), if we wouldn't have had people like Gandhi or Martin Luther King, who took the side of the weak, to fight against the "greater evil". And they proved they could win, even though for many it seemed impossible (there is your drama, your turn of events). Are you saying that people like them were so good, that they were boring? No, good is not there to be boring, good is there to create a contrast with the evil, and it's that contrast that brings the variety and flavour that some of us like. Not to mention that it's simply good to know there is some Good out there.

To come back to the game, what is more boring: H5 with 6 (7/8) grey alignments, all driven by the same greed - with just motivations and means of slaughtering & conquering differing from one to the other? or H3, with 3 Good alignments, 3 Neutral & 3 Evil - all different? The 3 "basically" Good alignments were anyway not the "absolute WHITE", the "ultimate GOOD". Each had its flavours, its weaknesses, even its greedy traitors (ie. Lord Haart). Same goes for the others.

Where do you see more variety: in 6 shades of grey, however all revolving around the same grey, or 9 shades of "grey", however with 2 of them being so light at one extreme, that you can barely call it grey (but more white), and 2 at the other extreme, so dark that one might call them black? As this is what H3 was for me, with Wizards being more of neutral-to-good at the best, in their cold towers, and warlocks being more bada$$ then pure Evil.

Or another (and last) comparison: The H3 Good/Neutral/Evil alignments - however each different from any of the others in its own - were like 3 sweet flavours + 3 bitter flavours + 3 sour flavours. H5 is all bitter flavours (different, yes - but somehow still the same). Or sour if you want (deffinetly not sweet :p). Where's more variation?

I see more variation in H3. You see more variation in H5. Fine by me so far. What annoys me is when, instead of settling with just asking Ubi what you personally want - just like all of us - you start explaining us what is "better", what should be there, and why are we wrong in asking one thing or the other (like you'd want to "educate" our tastes or sth).

On top of all the above, I'd like to add what I already told you once. I find it debatably moral what you're (sometimes!) doing on the forums. If Fabrice would come on forums telling us what we should like or not in the game, of course all people would jump at his throat - and such attitude of course would be suicidal for Ubi. Now, I know you're not Ubi like Fabrice, but you have to accept you're not just another "Ubi custumer" like all of us. You are also their contracted translator for the HoMM5 games. To adapt a bit the quote from Spiderman you used above, "with certian powers (position), come certain responsabilities". To some extent I feel it's unfair of me to say the above, but on the other hand imagine how people would react if we would have Ubi emplyees around on the forum, promoting the game by explaing the others why H5 concepts are better than H2/H3 concepts - saying they have the right to do so, just because they are "also Heroes fans". As collaborator, you are somehow half-Ubi, so it's hard for me to judge how far you could go in promoting H5 game concepts to other forumers, from the position of "just another Heroes fan" - but maybe would be better if you'd settle with just stating your opinion, without fighting other people's opinions over and over again, with endless arguments revolving around the same idea (till a mod gets angry and closes the thread or starts warning both parties). Don't worry, if you're right about what you say, there will be at least one other Ubi-uninvolved gamer out there to fight for the same ideas - and it's enough if you just support him/her with your vote and a short post.

Yours friendly (in spite of what you might think),
Zam

[Zamolxis]

@Starbatron
Ok, I had time and opportunity to think about an analogy to make things a little bit clearer. For the sake of starting this I'll define the following:
eating meat = evil
eating plants, vegetables, fruit = good
Note, that for starters this definition is accepted by all sentient and conscious beings.

First we have three categories of beings (whether sentient or not!)
1. Those who can only live on meat
2. Those who can only live on plants
3. Those who can live on both

The biggest and most obvious flaw with this analogy is that in Heroes V, there are no “people who only live on plants.” EVERYONE lives on both, except possibly the Inferno town being solely “carnivorous”, depending largely on whether or not you count Agraelag, and no one even has any strong inclination towards “plants only”. Every faction is roughly as greedy, bigoted and self-centered as every other faction. Thus there is NO choice for the player, we have to choose “both”, leading to the same result you claim to be reserved for “vegetarians” and “carnivores”. At least in the traditional conflict between the pair of them we had two choices; now we have one, and it’s boring. Neutral gray is only useful and interesting when you have black and white to contrast it with, otherwise all you get is a dull smear.

1.) @JJ: I believe the word you’re looking for is “sapient” not “sentient”.
2.) @ Everyone: Did this post give anyone else flashbacks?

I cannot but QFE Kareeah's post entirely, as it's exactly what I think (even couldn't stop myself from emphasizing like half of it, as she makes very good points - although I doubt JJ got it even now).

1.) LOL. I'd like indeed to see a "sentient" T-Rex concurring with him on the "eating meat = evil" definition.
2.) Darn. I more get a déjà vu than a flashback, as I can't quite place it. :p

[okrane]

You are also their contracted translator for the HoMM5 games.

hmmm... I wonder why JJ did not object or smth to the huge number of grammar errors in Heroes 5... since I see it's somewhat his position.

[ThunderTitan]

Well he's only responsible for the german part, and i haven't seen anyone complaining about that one.

[Zamolxis]

...and i haven't seen anyone complaining about that one.

Actually I do remember sb complaing about the name of some creature or sth, but let's not go into that.

[Zamolxis]

Remember Heroes 3 (of course you do ) and Shadow of Death? I cant help myself from having nightmares about getting the beautiful-stand-alone-last-chapter thing without the dwarfs, and the bright future of HoMM V Complete Edition with some Cronicles hiding behind the scene...
Up to now I have been enjoying the game a lot, if its fragmented on purpose just to squeeze some more money out of us...

Shame on you UBI!

In case you were hoping for a "stop worrying" answer, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disappoint you. If SoD frustrated you because the AB campaigns were not available anymore - let's just say now things are worse. As Acheval confirmed on the official forums (God I hope she's wrong):

1. While under SoD you could play any of the RoE & AB scenarios, TotE will be limited to its own scenarios.

2. While under SoD you could at least play the RoE campaigns, TotE will be limited to its own campaigns.

Of course Dwarves will be there, but that's nothing special as compared to SoD, as I don't remember Conflux creatures being banned from SoD.

Of course Ubival still has a good half a year to rethink that, but it's up to the community to convince them why they should change what they currently have in mind.

[vhilhu]

since ill probably, one way or another, get involved in that free homm-clone project, its a DEFINITELY NOT for homm5 expansion. i cant possibly have time for RL and them both. and other games i would miss playing.