Planning to Buy ‘Tribes of the East?’

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Do you think you'll get 'Tribes of the East' when it comes out?

Definitely YES
65
59%
I think so, but I might change my mind
18
16%
Undecided at this point
10
9%
Probably not, but we’ll see
8
7%
Definitely NOT
10
9%
 
Total votes: 111

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ThunderTitan
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 10 Apr 2007, 14:58

Zamolxis wrote:No I'm not. Read that post again, google "on sales" if needed - to see what that means here in the West, and you'll see I have no reason to bang my head. :devious:
I wondered how long it would take you to weasel out of it...
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Unread postby Zamolxis » 10 Apr 2007, 19:38

I didn't need to weasel out of anything, as I chose my words carefully from the original post. :devious:

And just so you know, otherwise I am going to keep my word: if the game goes on sale (10 i/o 20€) anytime between let's say the release and your birthday, I'll buy it for you. It's a small price to pay, which will bring me the satisfaction of proving you wrong. :devil:
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 10 Apr 2007, 21:20

If they release it in Q4 i have a whole year... :devil:
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Unread postby Kareeah Indaga » 10 Apr 2007, 22:44

Wow, I’m surprised; I figured there would be a bigger ratio of Undecideds with all the bug complaints floating around. Maybe I’ve just been lurking around the (still surprisingly dead) official forums too much.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 10 Apr 2007, 22:49

What can i say, it's Orcs. Everybody loves them.
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Unread postby winterfate » 11 Apr 2007, 01:49

Yeah, Orcs rule! :D

I just wish the faction weren't so homogenous...
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Unread postby asandir » 11 Apr 2007, 01:52

I'll second that, I like some commonality or theme to my factions but I'm not keen on the factions having so many units of the same type
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Unread postby Starbatron » 11 Apr 2007, 15:01

That was, indeed, one of the most disappointing points when I first saw HoMM V. What happened to the variety in each town? It's one thing to have a few orc type units, but why not harken back to the golden time in HoMM...when the creatures in a town truly helped create a unique playing style and feel for each town (such as HoMM III). *sigh* :bored: Themes for each town are fine, but we need a little more originality in each town.
Last edited by Starbatron on 11 Apr 2007, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 11 Apr 2007, 15:12

Oh, come on.
Dwarves and Elves together in one town with friendly fairy creatures like Unicorns and Sprites plus mytical Phoenixes?
The human type town with exclusively humans?
The goblin/orc/troll/oger dark fairy town with Wolves and Cyclopses for good measure?
The Wizard town with BOARS on one hand, Rocs and Halflings on the other and Golems and Titans on another?
Or the Warlocks with their mix of random mytical creatures strengthened by living statues called Gargoyles?

What the heck was so special about that except having all kinds of creatures banded together without any good reason?

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Unread postby Akul » 11 Apr 2007, 15:19

Gotta agree with JJ this time. The old style... sucked.
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Unread postby Starbatron » 11 Apr 2007, 15:22

It wasn't just the variety of creatures in each town, though I certainly appreciated that (though I'll admit, there wasn't any real logical reason for it), but there wasn't the cookie cutter layout of each town: each town as a shooter/spell caster priest type, each town has a low level shooter, each town has a basic infantry type, etc. Yes, it helps with balancing to an extent, but where is the originality in that? :devious:

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Unread postby Kareeah Indaga » 11 Apr 2007, 18:21

Just because 50%+ of the units in the town aren’t the same creature with different steroids doesn’t mean there isn’t a theme. Which is something Nival desperately needs to learn. The old way was fine (I even dare say significantly better :tonguehands:), it just took a little more effort on the part of the developers to implement. The H5 way is boring and repetitive.

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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 11 Apr 2007, 18:46

Yeah, sure, whatever. But since doing it the old way would have been boring and repetitive as well, not to mention old, this is another no win situation for Nival then.

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Unread postby Starbatron » 11 Apr 2007, 19:05

Yes, themes can be created without resorting to "the same creature with different steroids" as Kareeah put it so well. :tonguehands: And it is not boring to use an "old" method, as you put it, when that method allows more variety and spice to a game. Yes, HoMM II and III were far superior in that respect to the current installment of HoMM V. I'll grant that this game has features that surpass previous heroes games, but so many bugs detract from these features, not to mention the poor AI, that these features fade to the background a bit (yes, off topic, I know). But the point is that a town full of the same creature with different variants of that creature isn't the only (or necessarily best way) to create a unified town.

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Unread postby Angelspit » 11 Apr 2007, 19:14

Starbatron wrote:it helps with balancing to an extent, but where is the originality in that? :devious:
Go tell that to the multiplayer crowd, and see if you come back alive.

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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 11 Apr 2007, 19:20

A town full of the same creatures? Like what?
Inferno? Or Necropolis?
Haven? Sure, but in H 2 there was one more human creature and the town is like the one in H 3.
Right. Rampart. Dwarves got thrown out because they obviously don't fit in there from the start and got thrown out for another Elven warrior, while the Pegasi RIDERS lost their mount and got magic.
Academy someone? The Naga was called Rakshasa and got slightly different optics. Yeah, another town full of the same creatures.
But Dungeon. Male Dark Elves on level 1, females on 2 and 6 and a rider on a lizard, with only Minotaurs, Hydras and Dragons (plus Lizards) as others. Oh, yeah.
Ah, but the Dwarves. Yup, all Dwarves. There could have been a Yeti or Frost Giant in there, a behemoth even, or a Roc/Firebird or a plethora of other creatures or whatnot. So, yes, I concede a point in case for the Dwarves. The bottom line is, that there is one or two Dwarven creatures too many in that town, I'll give you that.
Which is not enough for such a general statement like yours.

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Unread postby Silence » 11 Apr 2007, 19:51

Jolly Joker wrote:A town full of the same creatures? Like what?
Inferno? Or Necropolis?
Haven? Sure, but in H 2 there was one more human creature and the town is like the one in H 3.

I would argue that it is not the dry nummerical count of one species creatures or the percent of them. It is more that the theme of the towns and creature relationships are more clearly defined, leaving less space for players own imagination. You can imagine minotaurs as the backbone of H3 dungeon, or medusas, evil eyes or human warlocks who do not show up as warriors at all. You can use your imagination for finding why all these troops fight side by side and the reasons can/ do differ from map to map. If you cannot find any common cause it would of course suck. In H5, save perhaps the Academy, the atmospheres of towns are much more pre-determined, which starts to hinder players/mapmaker imagination.

There has to be a common line in town's inhabitants, but leaving the exact society build-up for player/mapmaker imagination increases the number of pleased fans IMHO.

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Unread postby Zamolxis » 11 Apr 2007, 20:53

Kareeah Indaga wrote:Wow, I’m surprised; I figured there would be a bigger ratio of Undecideds with all the bug complaints floating around. Maybe I’ve just been lurking around the (still surprisingly dead) official forums too much.
Reasons why people will probably buy this one more than the previous 2:
- The orcs/barbarians. The universe if finally (reasonably) complete. Barbarians were there in this game since before the Necromancers. Why Nival chose to put them on hold for so long, I'll never understand (lack of funds...?)
- The number of creatures. With the alternate upgrades, the game finally manages to have a comparable level of variety with H3
- The standalone product at the price of an add-on
- The hope (!) that after 1.5 years of patching, at least this one won't be so buggy
- The combo artefacts (or whatever they meant by that) and all other improvements mentioned.

Of course now they also have to provide what they promised.

Oh, and don't forget also that no forum poll is relevant before it gathers at least 100 votes. ;)
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Unread postby Campaigner » 11 Apr 2007, 21:44

Sauron wrote:Gotta agree with JJ this time. The old style... sucked.
Absolutely. Heroes V is the best version so far as to the townlineups.

The Heroes II lineups were good in three towns and bad in the rest. Knight, Barbarian and Necromancer were the only alignments with a "feel". The rest were hodgepodges of random suiting creatures.
Just take the Wizard as an example....what TH is Halflings doing in the mountains..? The Boar was alot more fitting to the terrain but still felt even more out of place than the Halflings because the Halfling atleast shared the ranged attack power theme.
The Golems was fitting since they're constructs made by the Wizards. Rocs was like Boars, fitting the terrain but felt just as much out of place. Archmages and Titans fitted well.

The problem therefore, is the barren terrain in the town which was remedied in Heroes III and V.

Sylvan was almost fitting but it had the most unfitting creature there is in a fantasy world to put in a treehugger factoin. The Dwarf.
In most fantasy, Dwarves and Elves are enemies and will only cooperate in greatest need. In some games, such as Warlords, a few units from both sides inflict bonus damage to eachothers races.
Everything else fitted good though.

The Warlock was the very worst hodgepodge of random creatures....all they have in common is that they are evil and that half of'em fly.

I have to commend NWC though for making some creatures factionjumps believeable. They made me believe that a Centaur can fit in four completely environments. Ofcourse, that is because they radically changed the creature in every heroes version.


And you who think that some towns in Heroes V have too many creatures of one type, what do you say about Age of Wonders then?
Last edited by Campaigner on 12 Apr 2007, 00:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby Zamolxis » 11 Apr 2007, 22:15

Jolly Joker wrote:Oh, come on.
Dwarves and Elves together in one town with friendly fairy creatures like Unicorns and Sprites plus mytical Phoenixes?
...

What the heck was so special about that except having all kinds of creatures banded together without any good reason?
Oh come on.

What the heck was so special? Banded together without any good reason?

That was JVC's/NWC's vision, and it worked.

I didn't read Tolkien before playing Heroes, but I did read lots of fairytales in my childhood. So for me Elves & Dwarves & Unicorns & Sprites & Phoenixes made a perfect combination. A fairy town, with all the creatures from the stories in my childhood. More than that, in the stories of my childhood they were all good creatures, never fighting against each other - where's the incompatibility? Even more - in the stories of my childhood they all used (except for the Phoenix maybe) to live more or less in the forest - where's the incompatibility?

The Dwarves - Elves unfittingness is partly because of Tolkien, met indeed in some stories, and taken over in some games. But that's it. As none of them is really a bad creature, they actually do team up together eventually (not only in Tolkien) to face the real evil (orcs & stuff). Their rivalry is often childish or superficial and when the real evil appears, they realize that at a deeper level they actually share the same values... or at least interests.

It's actually Ubival who first time screwed this alignment: Elves, whom since the earliest years of my childhood till now, I've regarded as good creatures - are now blinded by revenge. With all my complaints in the beta about how unfit that racial skill is for them, all they managed to change was its name (who are they fooling?). And the friendly forest from previous games & most stories, is now a creepy place when you think of those spider treants. Add to that the mean, angry look on most Elven heroes and the dragon, and you have a completely f***ed up alignment feeling-wise (for a Preserve fan like me at least, I know an Inferno fan like you sees it otherwise).
The human type town with exclusively humans?
First you complain about fairy creatures not matching enough, and now about humans matching too much? Or what? I might be mistaken on this - but weren't you among those complaining about the introducing of Angels in the HoMM universe anyway? :)
The goblin/orc/troll/oger dark fairy town with Wolves and Cyclopses for good measure?
I'm not sure about the Wolf, but why would the Cyclop be so incompatible with the other humanoid fairy tale beasts?
The Wizard town with BOARS on one hand, Rocs and Halflings on the other and Golems and Titans on another?
OK. I agree Wizard/Tower is one of the 2 towns in H2-3 with creatures not really matching maybe. *sarcasm following* But I'm glad they SOOOOO much rehashed this alignment, by replacing the 6-handed Naga (Indian mythology) with a 4-handed Rakshassa (guess what? - also Indian mythology). Well that matches so well with the Greek Titans and the Genies from Arabian Nights. To complete this "one-race" alignment, of course we also have Gremlins, Gargoyles and Magi. And if we go back to H2, at least there Halflings had more in common with Magi & Titans (human-like) than Gremlins. Call me blind, but I don't see the race, nor the mythology that binds these H5 Academy creatures together, more than any previous version.
Or the Warlocks with their mix of random mytical creatures strengthened by living statues called Gargoyles?
Yep. This is the 2nd H1-2 town with creatures not really matching together. But what do we have now so much better than back then? The Hydra probably feels SOOOO much more at home in this dry cave, with same-race creatures like the Elven chicks, the Dragons and the Minotaurs, than in that awfully moisty H3 Swamp, with all those alien-race Basilisks and other lizard-like creatures. It was H3 that found a house for it, only for H5 to screw that up again. Or worse (in H1-2 they had the Swamp at least as a dwelling).

Just what are you trying to prove that this game managed to fix alignment-wise as opposed to previous games?

=============================================

Gee. I guess I missed a good fight with JJ. :D
Last edited by Zamolxis on 11 Apr 2007, 23:43, edited 1 time in total.
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