Unfair Hostility to Heroes 5 and Nival >.<

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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Unread postby Campaigner » 11 Apr 2007, 21:00

Then you need to make that clear from the beginning tekee.

Jeff: Why would anybody except Germany and usa have something against the French? Russia though (more specifically sovjet) conquered entire eastern Europe and locked that part of the world under the iron curtain and would have taken over rest of the world if it wasn't for other powerful militarys.

But Sweden and Finland are wary of Russia since we've waged war with them since year 1000th or something and they even stole a part of Finland after WWII which they still haven't returned.

About whos guilty of the quality of Heroes V....I blame Nival since THEY were the ones who decided upon the small square battlefield and it was THEY who messed up the balance between might & magic and it was THEY who made the mapeditor. Ubisoft gave them the resources to create the game but it was Nival who decided how it was to be made.

Mythical: You live in one of these places where the Indians have to live? You got a Wig-Wam? ;)
Last edited by Campaigner on 12 Apr 2007, 00:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 11 Apr 2007, 21:37

jeff wrote: It is for UBI and UBI alone to ensure their product is the best possible, afterall they own it. If it was not ready they should have stepped in and made it right or hired another company to develop it. Though one would hope pride would stimulate a subcontractor to provide only the best quality work, that doesn’t always happen.
My guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive to stop developing the game and send it to another developer. At what point are you suggesting they should assess the quality and change the development plan?

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Unread postby jeff » 11 Apr 2007, 22:26

Campaigner wrote:Jeff: Why would anybody except Germany and usa have something against the French?
Well, while in the USAF, I was stationed in Britain for almost 7 years, and the antagonistic relationship between the English and French was the basis of many of their jokes on several of their comedy shows. Many (probably not most) British just do not trust the French, go figure.
PhoenixReborn wrote:My guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive to stop developing the game and send it to another developer. At what point are you suggesting they should assess the quality and change the development plan?
How does that change anything I said, they own it, someone at UBI said it was good enough, the decision rests with UBI, thereby it is their responsibility, and theirs alone. If they do not have the foresight to have some sort of performance guarantees that's their problem.
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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 12 Apr 2007, 00:15

@ Jeff: My point is that while what you are saying makes sense from our point of view (fans) and probably from a long-term point of view (heroes series) it was probably economically necessary to release it. In other words they had to get the game out so they could pay people, and have enough money to make the expansions (which they worked on simultaneously with the patches). Isn't that the way the games industry works: rush rush rush?

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Unread postby jeff » 12 Apr 2007, 01:25

PhoenixReborn wrote:@ Jeff: My point is that while what you are saying makes sense from our point of view (fans) and probably from a long-term point of view (heroes series) it was probably economically necessary to release it. In other words they had to get the game out so they could pay people, and have enough money to make the expansions (which they worked on simultaneously with the patches). Isn't that the way the games industry works: rush rush rush?
And I don’t mean to be argumentative, the Heroes Franchise needs to make money or its future is over. However, a production that was better executed would have made them more money. Too many publishers release quickly in order to survive, in the case of 3DO it forced the release of H-IV too soon. UBI is/was in a stronger financial position to delay its release. Look they have investors to please everyone knows that and it can lead to bad decisions, the early release of H-V was a bad decision. Putting up with patches from Nival that break things that had worked before is another. If Heroes survives to H-VI, let’s hope the developer does a better job.
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Unread postby asandir » 12 Apr 2007, 02:31

If they'd taken more time, it still mighta been a buggy release, but I'd like to think not so buggy, it was ordinary at release date and in an ideal world (Hah!) this sort of thing should never happen
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Unread postby tekeeee » 13 Apr 2007, 01:07

Meh maybe it is too late but I'm too bored to type anything
But yay let's all hope for heroes 6 =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Besides I kinda hate these forums no offense to you but it took me 4 hours to try and figure out how to register with an eemail that wasn't blocked
Why the heck did they block every free email service?? Smart move
And the people thgat are against this game is really consistent like you've been complaining since August ;|

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Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 13 Apr 2007, 02:29

tekeeee wrote: Besides I kinda hate these forums no offense to you but it took me 4 hours to try and figure out how to register with an eemail that wasn't blocked
Why the heck did they block every free email service?? Smart move
And the people thgat are against this game is really consistent like you've been complaining since August ;|
If you hate the boards so much, take it up with Angelspit.
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Unread postby jeff » 13 Apr 2007, 03:05

Complaining since August, oh my gosh how unfair. :devious: Let’s see how many patches have they done? How many of the problems that were identified when the game was first released are still unfixed? Why with every patch they seem to go out of their way to make mods incompatible? Why does each patch seem to break something that was working correctly before the patch? With all of this in mind, I think if you look at the community here, on average sentiment is neutral, some hostile others neutral and some that love it. Considering the fact about half of the people loved H-IV and half preferred H-III, there was almost no hope that a game was going to please everyone. I stated a thousand times my main complaint is the horrible execution of the editor. Given a good one fans will make maps the will please a wide range of tastes. Most maps being made right now are simplistic conqueror everyone maps. I do not blame those authors, given the current editor it takes a talented person to make even those maps. Realistically given the way the patching has gone, how could anyone expect anything else? Even the official forum despite aggressive moderator intervention is more negative than this community. Despite my criticisms I have played H-V, will play it again when the next expansion is released.
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Unread postby tekeeee » 13 Apr 2007, 16:04

Oki dokie but anyways there is still alot of poblems with their engine like the engine is new and is natural to have many issues. Though I dunno what else there is to say, I figured out that there will be last expansion so next heroes will be exciting but I am pretty bored of internet arguements haha :P

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Unread postby Apocalypse » 13 Apr 2007, 16:40

I got pretty bored of long threads of internet arguments too :D

Anyway, why you all say Heroes 6 will be for sure better? Maybe it will be developed by someone even worse than Nival :disagree: and you'll all be disappointed. After all, you know the word: "you don't realize what you have until you lose it"
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Unread postby jeff » 13 Apr 2007, 17:12

Apocalypse wrote:I got pretty bored of long threads of internet arguments too :D

Anyway, why you all say Heroes 6 will be for sure better? Maybe it will be developed by someone even worse than Nival :disagree: and you'll all be disappointed. After all, you know the word: "you don't realize what you have until you lose it"
I don't believe anyone is saying it will be better just that we hope it will be better. It will suffer from the same abuse from a community that follows two paths, one preferring the H-III line and those that prefer the H-IV path. Neither side is completely right or completely wrong. However a longer development and testing times along with actually listening to the fans will go along way on the right track.
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Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 13 Apr 2007, 20:57

All and all, I'm just glad someone was willing to pick up the series after 3DO went bankrupt and make a new Heroes game.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

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Unread postby jeff » 13 Apr 2007, 23:07

Omega_Destroyer wrote:All and all, I'm just glad someone was willing to pick up the series after 3DO went bankrupt and make a new Heroes game.
Amen to that, and despite my critisms it is not a bad game, it is just heartbreaking that with a little more thought, a little more time and a lot more listening it could have been a great game. Hopefully it is one that will extend the franchises future.
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Unread postby Campaigner » 14 Apr 2007, 00:13

Indeed Jeff....Indeed....but were in luck. It doesn't matter much that Heroes V fails since there is more fantasy TBS games then ever in development right now! Actually I don't think there has ever been so many potentially good fantasy TBS games in development right now :-D

The new Kings Bounty that is closest of them all to HoMM is probably in betastage now and Fantasy Wars I would guess have also entered betastage. Then we got Disciples III which may arrive this fall or at the latest in winter. But the one game that I got the most faith in is Stardocks fantasy TBS. They said they would build upon the things that they think made Master of Magic so good but update graphics and A.I. It will come in 2009 though. (I think early 2009).

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Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 14 Apr 2007, 01:25

jeff wrote:
Omega_Destroyer wrote:All and all, I'm just glad someone was willing to pick up the series after 3DO went bankrupt and make a new Heroes game.
Amen to that, and despite my critisms it is not a bad game, it is just heartbreaking that with a little more thought, a little more time and a lot more listening it could have been a great game. Hopefully it is one that will extend the franchises future.
For a first effort by Nival, it's a good game. Just think of how much 3DO improved the series with each subsequent game. I hope Nival can do the same.
And the chickens. Those damn chickens.

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Unread postby jeff » 14 Apr 2007, 02:08

Campaigner wrote: The new Kings Bounty that is closest of them all to HoMM is probably in betastage now and Fantasy Wars I would guess have also entered betastage. Then we got Disciples III which may arrive this fall or at the latest in winter. But the one game that I got the most faith in is Stardocks fantasy TBS. They said they would build upon the things that they think made Master of Magic so good but update graphics and A.I. It will come in 2009 though. (I think early 2009).
That's great news, I don't play RTS games anymore, just getting to old to try and continually out react the computer. I have pinball games for that type of activity. :proud:
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Unread postby Caradoc » 16 Apr 2007, 05:39

A couple of things: First, I don't recall anyone making a serious complaint about Heroes V because it was developed in Russia. Certainly nothing about Communism. Even in the CCCP days, I viewed Russian technology with the greatest respect. And I was particularly impressed with what programmers were able to do with the relatively primitive hardware they had. For that same reason, Russia has always been strong in pencil-and-paper science. And of course Russian chess is unsurpassed.

Second, the prejudice against the French comes from a couple of sources. Americans are deeply envious of France's cultural status in the world. French arts clearly surpass America's and that makes some people resentful. The other source is France's refusal to join in the glorious adventure in Iraq. The right-wing hate machine turned its guns on France in the buildup to the war. Many people here are so full of hatred that they are always looking for a socially approved outlet and when the French were held up as an acceptable target, they unloaded.
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Unread postby Mytical » 16 Apr 2007, 06:05

The french arts are indeed something to behold. Even if Roman art (in it's day) makes French art look like children's doodles. Of course then again so far French art and cusine far outshines American. America seems to borrow more then it creates. Je ne parle francais pah. C'est la vie. I do not envy the french, nor do I dislike them. Heck I don't dislike anybody, and if more people could just get along, this world would be much better off.
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Unread postby asandir » 16 Apr 2007, 06:33

I'd like to think that everyone hopes there will be a 6 and that it is a great release
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