Dark magic in Dungeon

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okrane
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Dark magic in Dungeon

Postby okrane » Feb 15 2007, 14:29

Hi all

I was thinking the other day about the spell schools in a dungeon town, and it came to me that even though Dungeon has summoning and distructive as favored spell schools there are no heroes that have summoning magic as their starting skills. Moreover, there are already 2 warlocks that start with the Dark magic skill(and another 2 that start with destruction)

So I was thinking about the possibility that initially dungeon was set up to have dark and destructive as their primary spells. As we already know nival are a bunch of idiots this inconsistency does not come as a surprise.

Additionally I keep thinking that Dark magic would fit warlocks better that summoning due to the low cost of dark spells, and the additional usefulness it brings to their creatures.

Summoning OTOH seems a bit out of place: I mean I would dare a warlock cast a 35 mana pheonix early on... the high cost make the spell pretty much useless...

So what do you think? Could this be better?
If so... can we mod something like this: make the spells in dungeon be destructive and dark?

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Postby Jolly Joker » Feb 15 2007, 14:46

Yes and no. I mulled over this some time ago, and themewise Dark Magic may be better, but with Summoning magic Spell Power is more of the essence. So I'm a bit undecided there.

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Postby okrane » Feb 15 2007, 16:52

Dark is not that bad with spell power neither... think about Decay, Frenzy, Blind, Puppet Master, even CotN(which would suck with dungeon but it does suck too with haven - maybe a draco-curse?) not to mention that all other spells will last practically the whole battle so you don't need to worry to cast them again....

And summoning is really impractical with dungeon because of the really high spell cost. Phantom forces costs 18, Pheonix 35, Elementals 17, Firewall 16... kind of too much for a low level warlock with a knowledge of 3-4...

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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 15 2007, 20:39

Dark Magic DOES fit the Dungeon theme more, but the Dark/Destructive combo is already taken by Inferno. Granted, Inferno seems to be more Destructive + Summoning (demons being masters of teleportation and gating) for its profile and it would make sense for them to swap specialties, but if inferno got summoning, with their pitiful spellpower they probably wouldn't have any use for it, although warlocks could use dark magic with high spellpower as you said.

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Postby PhoenixReborn » Feb 15 2007, 20:42

I don't think summoning is so bad for a warlock. You would obviously go for sorcery with arcane training to reduce the spell point cost. There are also usually artifacts that increase knowledge around, even if you can't get the staff of sar-issus.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that none of the warlocks have summoning as a start skill given that it's one of their main schools. This has been brought up before but I doubt it will be changed officially. It can however be modded.

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Postby Infiltrator » Feb 15 2007, 20:54

Oh almost forgot, nival are complete idiots for keeping two of our heroes with dark magic.

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Postby okrane » Feb 15 2007, 21:10

Infiltrator wrote:Dark Magic DOES fit the Dungeon theme more, but the Dark/Destructive combo is already taken by Inferno. Granted, Inferno seems to be more Destructive + Summoning (demons being masters of teleportation and gating) for its profile and it would make sense for them to swap specialties, but if inferno got summoning, with their pitiful spellpower they probably wouldn't have any use for it, although warlocks could use dark magic with high spellpower as you said.


I do not find an impediment that Inferno already has this path... keep in mind that the dwarves already have the same path as the elves due to the fact that there are only 6 possible combinations around.

Moreover dark could be restored to dungeon and one of the new factions can get the destructive/summoning combo.

I don't think summoning is so bad for a warlock. You would obviously go for sorcery with arcane training to reduce the spell point cost. There are also usually artifacts that increase knowledge around, even if you can't get the staff of sar-issus.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense that none of the warlocks have summoning as a start skill given that it's one of their main schools. This has been brought up before but I doubt it will be changed officially. It can however be modded.


well... getting of not getting artifacts should not the the point here... if you get it very good, you cast more spells, but if you don't what do you do... you cast one pheonix and then normal attack everything. Summoning is good for wizards who have lots of mana or necro with MotN....

And yeah... it would fit better Inferno to have summoning since they are already master summoners

Oh almost forgot, nival are complete idiots for keeping two of our heroes with dark magic.


You said it brother...

As I see it there are 2 ways to fix this...
either change the school to dark to fit these 2 heroes and the specifics of the town(keep in mind that matriarchs have mostly only dark spells)
or change the starting skills of the heroes to something like summoning.. still it would be hard for lethos because his special implies a dark magic spell....

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Postby Ya5MieL » Feb 15 2007, 21:48

okrane wrote: keep in mind that the dwarves already have the same path as the elves due to the fact that there are only 6 possible combinations around.
.


IMO, since dwarves already have runic magic,.. they should have had only one spell school as their primary..

I would say Light alone would do good, all other spells in guild would be picked randomly between other 3 schools.

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Postby Neckie » Feb 25 2007, 15:34

If you want a mod :

The file you need to change is MapObjects\Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb

An easy way to make it work with 2.1 is to extract it from a1-data.pak and then change the line to <MagicSchool_1>MAGIC_SCHOOL_DARK</MagicSchool_1> and to put it in the a1p1-data.pak.

The same can be done for any other town.

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Postby Mirez » Feb 25 2007, 17:46

[quote="Neckie"]If you want a mod :

The file you need to change is MapObjects\Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb

An easy way to make it work with 2.1 is to extract it from a1-data.pak and then change the line to <MagicSchool_1>MAGIC_SCHOOL_DARK</MagicSchool_1> and to put it in the a1p1-data.pak.

The same can be done for any other town.[/quote]

yeah I don't get it
:|
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Re: Dark magic in Dungeon

Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 25 2007, 18:03

okrane wrote:As we already know nival are a bunch of idiots this inconsistency does not come as a surprise.


We call them Ubival over here, as to not leave anyone feeling left out.
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Postby Neckie » Feb 25 2007, 18:25

haloswift wrote:
Neckie wrote:If you want a mod :

The file you need to change is MapObjects\Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb

An easy way to make it work with 2.1 is to extract it from a1-data.pak and then change the line to <MagicSchool_1>MAGIC_SCHOOL_DARK</MagicSchool_1> and to put it in the a1p1-data.pak.

The same can be done for any other town.


yeah I don't get it
:|


Ok i guess i wasn't clear

1. Go to C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Heroes of might and magic V\dataa1 (or where your dataa1 folder is )
2. Open a1-data.pak with WinRAR
3. Open the folder MapObjects
4. Find the file Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb
5. Right Click on the file and extract it wherever you wish.
6. Close WinRAR
7. Open Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb you just extracted
8. Go at the bottom of the file you'll see :
<MagicSchool_1>MAGIC_SCHOOL_SUMMONING</MagicSchool_1> You must change it to <MagicSchool_1>MAGIC_SCHOOL_DARK</MagicSchool_1>
9. Save the file.
10. repeat 1.
11. Open a1p1-data.pak with WinRAR
12. repeat 3.
13. Drag Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb in the winrar window. There will now be a file named Dungeon.(AdvMapTownShared).xdb of the mapobjects folder of a1p1-data.pak.
14. Exit WinRAR and play the game. Enjoy the dungeon with dark magics.

Hope its clear this time else I'll have to do it for you I guess.

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Postby Odish » Feb 25 2007, 20:06

Interesting you mention it since I only recentely read the spell schools info again and under dark it's said it is favoures by the warlock and dark elfs
I guess they did changed that later on and forgot to change the secials of the heroes
Last edited by Odish on Feb 26 2007, 12:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby theGryphon » Feb 25 2007, 23:56

I think two magic alignments per faction is too much of a constraint given there are only four magic schools and this many contradictions. What about three (3) magic alignments, with emphasis on two:

Knight: Light(!) + Dark(!) + Destruction
Ranger: Light(!) + Destruction(!) + Summoning
Necromancer: Dark(!) + Summoning(!) + Destruction
Demon Lord: Dark(!) + Destruction(!) + Summoning
Warlock: Destruction(!) + Summoning(!) + Dark
Wizard: Light(!) + Summoning(!) + Dark
Runelord: Light(!) + Destruction(!) + Runic

The non-emphasized magic school will not appear on level 5, and may not appear on level 4 with some probability, idk. Apparently, Dwarfs are somewhat special with a non-mage-guild school.

This way possibilities are increased and inconsistencies are gone.

The new race will most probably be evil. So, they may have:

??? Chief: Dark(!) + Summoning(!) + Orcic

:devious:
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Postby Starbatron » Feb 26 2007, 20:52

I like the idea of more magic specialization...though "Orcic" has to go as an adjective (no offense meant). Maybe something along the lines of "Orcish" or "Orcian." I also wish there were more types of magic in this game (not just new magics for a particular race). The rune mage idea is a great, but why not six or seven types of magic? Maybe that would be stretching the creativity of Ubival... :D

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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 26 2007, 21:12

Orcish sounds about right. But they should be a more might faction, and have some sort of other advantage then a new magic.
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Postby okrane » Jun 7 2007, 9:45

You think they will maybe reconsider and put dark magic into dungeon in ToE?

It would fit them so much better...


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