Necromany changes in 2.1 (take a seat: you'll need it)

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theGryphon
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Postby theGryphon » Jan 29 2007, 23:34

Oh, this is all so interesting! Can't wait to play the necro campaign again :)

Btw, for the best (most worthy to go for) conversion I nominate: Sprite -> Spectre and Berserker -> Vampire Lord. And for the worst, I give you Deep Hydra -> Spectre, Nightmare -> Spectre and Master Hunter -> Skeleton Archer. What do you say?
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Adicto
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Postby Adicto » Jan 29 2007, 23:34

Jolly Joker wrote:
Adicto wrote:And now that necropolis is no more based on a legion of skeleton archers, is there any change in the undead's stats? because now its firepower is no more feared (Death Cloud makes crap damage), and the roles of some creatures have changed, so the faction seems more imbalanced and diffuse than ever.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the drastic diminution of the necropolis' shooting power, and the changes in the composition of the army that this new necromancy entails.

I wanna know what is the necropolis' source of power, because obviously skeletons are no longer the key to victory. Are bone dragons, wraiths, lichs, vampires, ghosts, zombies or skeletons changed in something in order to be adapted to this new kind of necromancy? because if not, I feel a disaster coming.

That is what I'm talking about. Maybe my english makes bleed you eyes, but you have understood me the first time, I'm sure about it.

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Corelanis
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Postby Corelanis » Jan 29 2007, 23:39

Your english is fine. I just dont see the problem youre getting more units just for killing things. Necropolis is designed around lots and lots of weaker troops. If it doesnt work well roll back I guess. Im installing the patch now so if I find it totally sucks ill tell you.
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theGryphon
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Postby theGryphon » Jan 29 2007, 23:43

Well, Adicto, rather than legions of skelly archers, we will have zounds of zombies and spectres, throngs of vampires, hordes of liches and lots of wraiths and necro dragons raised. Plus, we will still have skellies in the order of thousands. What else do you want? Think about it and you'll come to see that this change is obviously in the favor of the Necro faction both in strength and fun in gameplay.
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Corelanis
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Postby Corelanis » Jan 29 2007, 23:54

I seem to be missing something that someing being an indicator to how much dark energy I have left JJ would you tell me where it is if there is one please.
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Adicto
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Postby Adicto » Jan 30 2007, 0:35

Corelanis wrote:Your english is fine. I just dont see the problem youre getting more units just for killing things. Necropolis is designed around lots and lots of weaker troops. If it doesnt work well roll back I guess. Im installing the patch now so if I find it totally sucks ill tell you.

theGryphon wrote:Well, Adicto, rather than legions of skelly archers, we will have zounds of zombies and spectres, throngs of vampires, hordes of liches and lots of wraiths and necro dragons raised. Plus, we will still have skellies in the order of thousands. What else do you want? Think about it and you'll come to see that this change is obviously in the favor of the Necro faction both in strength and fun in gameplay.
Raise different undead troops is fine and fun, I liked it since HoMM 4, but I'm concerned about the necro units being too much tweaked to fit in the old necropolis concept. I mean: The whole undead army was there to ensure the skeletons' integrity and buy time for your spellcaster hero, but now that has changed, at least in big part.

All necro creatures are slow (low speed & low/moderate initiative, together with 0 possibilities of benefitting from moral) and necromancers are spellcaster heroes whose attack is usually something like 0. In the past this was perfect because we had a legion of skeleton archers striking from afar and a whole army defending them, but now this new necromancy changes all the roles. Now necromancers are forced to play offensively with a defensive army because they have less shooting power than almost every race (I mean if lichs are 2x2 even now)... and this cannot be good.

Maybe I'm talking to much and there are some changes like more speed or other unexpected things, but I'm still worried.

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aulfgar
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Postby aulfgar » Jan 30 2007, 1:24

This is an amazing change. :D

Did they fix the AI?
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fiur
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A new necromancy calculaotr....

Postby fiur » Jan 30 2007, 4:18

well I've mange to make an caluclator for all your questions..
(number of killed creature and type----> raised undead and number+ dark energy used + total energy left based on your hero lvl. number of pillar of bones and so on....
I've tested it tonight and I'm gonna post it in a few hours.....
(it's an web site based on a microsoft excel dokument.....)

lots of formula and stuf...... but it will make the whole necromacy mechanism a whole lot easier.....

cheers......
:D :D :D

dbacchus
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Postby dbacchus » Jan 30 2007, 6:29

theGryphon wrote:Oh, this is all so interesting! Can't wait to play the necro campaign again :)


Well, correct me if i'm wrong, but to play the necropolis campain we would need to wait for patch 1.5, when they add it to the original game, wouldn't we?

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fiur
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a Necromancy Calculator with dark energy.....

Postby fiur » Jan 30 2007, 6:50

here it is.... :)

Necromancy Calculator
[/url]

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Jan 30 2007, 7:47

I think, they didn't implement an indicator for your DE. You will see it only after you killed something, so you must memorize it.

MotN in combination with Raise Dead is awesome to creep, no matter your army, and when you meet an opponent you'll drown him in troops. A high number of Spectres is pretty awkward to play against, for example.

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Postby Amis » Jan 30 2007, 10:26

MotN seems to work a bit differently. It seems to restore more mana than 1 per 50 dmg.

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Lord Zeus
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Postby Lord Zeus » Jan 30 2007, 12:33

Amis wrote:MotN seems to work a bit differently. It seems to restore more mana than 1 per 50 dmg.


It seems it rounds up the damage like this:
Dmg:1-50=1 mana
Dmg:51-100=2 mana
Dmg:101-150=3 mana
....etc

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Arveragus
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The road to Howl of Terror in v2.1

Postby Arveragus » Jan 30 2007, 12:56

As a result of these changes to Necromancers, the road to the Necromancers' ultimate ability, Howl of Terror, is actually shortened by two steps. The skills you need to take to get there are still the same basically, but Mark of the Necromancer (formerly Spirit Link) has been taken out of the Dark Magic skill tree and has replaced Skeleton Archers as an ability of the Necromancy skill tree.

This means, that in order to reach Howl of Terror you will only need to build up your Dark Magic skill to advanced level and only need the Master of Curses and Corrupted Soil abilities related to this skill.

You can then choose the third Dark Magic ability from the remaining Master skills freely.

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Postby Mightor Magic » Jan 30 2007, 14:53

I like the idea behind this {an army centered around Vampires instead of Skeleton Archers will be far more fun in the later battles and Attack/Archery/BF is now far less important than Dark, Summoning and Defense. Makes more sense for a Necromancer giving their stat distribution} but with the patch being so large, I can't see playing 2.1 any time soon.

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Postby Lepastur » Feb 1 2007, 9:48

Adicto wrote:All necro creatures are slow (low speed & low/moderate initiative, together with 0 possibilities of benefitting from moral)

First, take the manual STATs page and compare. The only creatures which are clearly under the rest factions' ones are lvl 7, and their low damage compensate with numbers +1 with a town special structure. Furthermore, okay, 0 possibilities from taking benefits about moral, yes, BUT 0 possibilities from taking bad effects from it, too, and you did mention nothing about their immunities (mind) or the fact of the Animate Dead efficiency (you don't loose any troop after combat) and having it right from the stat. What are you complaining about? I think you're completely wrong.

and necromancers are spellcaster heroes whose attack is usually something like 0.

Really? I think their good SPower says the opposite.

Now necromancers are forced to play offensively with a defensive army because they have less shooting power than almost every race (I mean if lichs are 2x2 even now)... and this cannot be good.

You have had no time to test that, please, don't say blasphemies. Even if that were true, there's no trouble on protecting them using Bone Dragons or Wraiths. If the enemy blocks them before that, that stack will be dead. It's usual that each faction can reach the 2x2 enemy ranks with no more than 2 stacks. If we count that 2 stacks will be at the whole Range of a mass of skeletons and their buddies, it's not a bad thing at all.

Maybe I'm talking to much and there are some changes like more speed or other unexpected things, but I'm still worried.

It will be going to be so.

Cheers!
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Vokial
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Postby Vokial » Feb 1 2007, 10:42

All changes in table


Image

GrowlingDog
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Postby GrowlingDog » Feb 1 2007, 10:47

great list Vokiel. Just 1 question. I havnt been playing HOF long and im guessing that the creature 3rd in line for the Ghost dragons is new, what is it?

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Feb 1 2007, 10:51

That's a Manticore

GrowlingDog
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Postby GrowlingDog » Feb 1 2007, 11:11

Oh yea ive seen them. I would have thought a Titan far more valuable. Still, i have yet to have a manticore in my army


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