I hate this game (long rant)

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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ThunderTitan
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 15 Dec 2006, 16:42

Jolly Joker wrote: None of that, DL. I just said what the smart customer would do in my opinion (as opposed to TT's opinion).
That's not my opinion, that's something they teach you in Economy class. If you want to get something good you need to demand perfection.
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Unread postby zarakand » 15 Dec 2006, 16:46

Regardless of the bugs those games have, at least they've solved the desync issue. How come if we're making excuses for Nival, I have never had the desync issue in any other game including all previous Heroes games?

Lets just face the facts, Nival is not a quality company. Yes PC gaming is much more difficult to program for than console, but other companies consistently manage to do it better than Nival has.

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Unread postby val-gaav » 15 Dec 2006, 19:06

Jolly Joker wrote: The smart customer would demand making games for Linux and not expect perfection from windows based games
well I am one of those smart customers , becouse the only reason I did not buy heroes V is that it doesn't have any linux port (even in plans)...

However I do not agree that a game made for linux would be perfect and bug free ...

there is really no rule here .... and it's not the fault of windows that the game made for this platform is bugged etc etc ... It's the fault of the company that made the game ...

Sure there are some windows things like drivers / directx etc that may make the game work bad under some configuration, however it would be the same with linux (or even worse) as linux is not made in a way to give a good support for comercial software , and counting all the distros out there it would be far more complicated....

Though in terms of speed I've seen the same games run on windows and on linux (quakes , doom3) and the funny part is that they where working faster on the same configuration on linux ....

Anyway to sum up JJ Linux is not a perfect OS , and I do not think that comercial games would get any better just by switching platform, even if linux was perfect .... it's all up to the people that make the game really

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Unread postby Pol » 15 Dec 2006, 19:11

In fact last perfect OS from the view of customers was DOS :D

When we looked on the PC platform.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 15 Dec 2006, 19:20

Linux still has to deal with sys configurations. Do Macs still not have that problem?
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Unread postby winterfate » 15 Dec 2006, 20:34

Romanov77 wrote:
Spelling errors
Performance drops (my machine runs company of heroes PERFECTLY)
Irritating cartoonish graphics (which out of some mystery weighs more than Doom3 engine)
Non existent AI on combat map
Ridiculous cheesy powerful scripted enemy heroes
Stupid and ugly cutscenes
Boring and "already seen in other games" storyline

And you know what happens after all these hours? When I was about to finish this horrendous campaign scenario, my savegame decides to "go corrupt", basically, the game crashes to the desktop when I try to load it.
Ranting everyone in a while is good (and liberating :D).

Let's see the list:

Spelling errors: haha. And they fix some to add others :).
Performance drops: "Not really". *turns on Heroes V, attempts to play XL map, game locks up*. Nevermind :-D.
Irritating cartoonish graphics: They ARE cartoonish, but IMO, they are not irritating.
Non existent AI on combat map: You would need to play Heroic to see some decent AI (and that's nearly impossible to beat :(, only done it about 3 times).
Ridiculous cheesy powerful scripted enemy heroes: cough*Gilraen*cough...hehe (they did tone him down in 1.3, if I'm not mistaken).
Stupid and ugly cutscenes: My thoughts exactly (they can't even move their lips :devil:).
Boring and "already seen in other games" storyline: "That's not true" *turns on WC3, looks at campaign, turns off WC3, turns on Heroes 5, looks at campaign*. Um, ignore what I said before :D .

As for the savegame corruption, don't even remind me (only truly affected me once, but boy was I mad!). :)

Your ranting is pretty much correct.
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Unread postby val-gaav » 15 Dec 2006, 20:50

ThunderTitan wrote:Linux still has to deal with sys configurations
Not more then windows ...

However the configuration is a bit diffrent then windows so here may be a problem for people who are used to windows .... Linux works differently ...

what people often think is that you have to use CLI to configure linux that is totally not true ... Desktop environments like KDE has plenty of GUI configurators in which you can do almost anything. Also there are distros that come fully pre-configured for most needs , and there you do not have to touch any system configuration.

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Unread postby Khelavaster » 15 Dec 2006, 22:16

Jolly Joker wrote:So you are obviously no WC III player. Because if you was, you'd know that they started with patch 1.01
That went up to 1.06 (with some having a and b patches as well.
Then came 1.11.
And they went up straight over 1.19 to 1.20.
Note that patches there are further divided into those with characters.
For example the current patch is 1.20e (which means it is the fth or even 6th 1.20 patch. 1.19 had 5 versions as well and so on.
I cannot even count the number of patches.
Thanks for the breakdown! Now, since you are at it, could you elaborate on exactly what those patches fixed? Sorry for being so lazy but posting here is not part of my job.

Sorry, but the fact remains that three years later WC3 is STILL at 1.2. What I mean is, although I'm not saying that the whole industry adheres to this to the same extent or degree of rigorousness, normally a patch that changes a game version in the hundredths is supposed to fix very minor stuff.

So basically what I'm saying is that Blizzard could have released 50 patches for every one of HOMMV and still that wouldn't make WC3 a buggier game than HOMMV.

Incidentally, it's not that I'm not a WC3 player. I normally don't really care for patches except when they are ESSENTIAL to fix a hopeless mess such as HOMM V.

As far as I can remember there was no need for patches to thoroughly enjoy WC3 as the very detailed, professional, polished product it was on release.

Khel.

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Unread postby gaspi2 » 15 Dec 2006, 22:20

For me, heroes V works like clock, but there is a 'LITTLE' thing that drives me mad:( that Inferno game crash, I really hate it to load whole game again and again:(
I thing that games relased in these times are just copyes of those older - nothing new.
Look 4 e.g. dungeon keeper - what idea! godly!
Also HOMAM great idea and those new series are just old game in new clothes, however I'm cursing on those creators that focus on graphics - it only use my memory and then whole game is slow.
Personally I don't look how the game looks but how it entertains me.
(hehe I played stonekeep several weeks ago:))

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Unread postby innokenti » 15 Dec 2006, 22:48

zarakand wrote:Lets just face the facts, Nival is not a quality company. Yes PC gaming is much more difficult to program for than console, but other companies consistently manage to do it better than Nival has.
While it would be fair to say their effort with HV left somethign to be desired, you can't talk about their skill basing it on only one game. Other games they have created were far more perfected and bug-free etc etc.

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Unread postby aulfgar » 15 Dec 2006, 23:11

Corelanis wrote:You cant really compare anything made by Blizzard with anything not made by Blizzard. They crap chocolate chip cookies and pee milk. Really though blizzard had 2 more warcraft games worth of experiance and a competant staff cant beat that. Nival on the other hand had no heroes experiance and a staff of people im convinced lied on thier resume.
And yet Blizzard made WC3 which was totally craptacular, mainly due to looking worse than SC because they had to go "teh 3Dzorz". This is also what happened in HoMM4, they totally ruined the concept of the game and added bad graphics to try to get a broader audience, and I KNOW there are alot of customer who like myself loathed those products because they weren't what was advertised by their brand name. WC3 or HoMM4 should have had other titles then they would have been passable games, but to ruin the series by putting in something as bad in comparison is just awful.

Just my .002 Cents. ;)

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 16 Dec 2006, 00:25

aulfgar wrote: This is also what happened in HoMM4, they totally ruined the concept of the game and added bad graphics to try to get a broader audience,
You do know H4 wasn't 3D, right?! And i found it the oposite of WC3, the graphics looked OK, but the unit/town art was lacking. And having to adjust to the isometric view was weird. They also should have made more of the map visible on the screen.
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 16 Dec 2006, 01:12

innokenti wrote: While it would be fair to say their effort with HV left somethign to be desired, you can't talk about their skill basing it on only one game. Other games they have created were far more perfected and bug-free etc etc.
But looking at other ubi games,you can say that their skills at satisfying the customer are pushed behind for the money making skills to go in front.

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Unread postby aulfgar » 16 Dec 2006, 01:39

ThunderTitan wrote:
aulfgar wrote: This is also what happened in HoMM4, they totally ruined the concept of the game and added bad graphics to try to get a broader audience,
You do know H4 wasn't 3D, right?! And i found it the oposite of WC3, the graphics looked OK, but the unit/town art was lacking. And having to adjust to the isometric view was weird. They also should have made more of the map visible on the screen.
Well actually it was 3D. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of 3D. It was rendered in 3D it says so on the box and it was obviously 3D when playing. It did not have a rotating camera... who cares. It did use things like polygons and rending skins to make the the monsters and the like.

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Unread postby Demiurg » 16 Dec 2006, 02:30

aulfgar wrote:Well actually it was 3D. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of 3D. It was rendered in 3D it says so on the box and it was obviously 3D when playing. It did not have a rotating camera... who cares. It did use things like polygons and rending skins to make the the monsters and the like.
I haven't played HoMM IV, but I've seen screenshots - and isn't it obviously 2D sprite based?

From Avaults review:

"Though it's still fundamentally a 2D title with flat sprites for units, the character representations, monsters and buildings have a palpable sense of depth. This largely stems from the phenomenal amount of detail the artists have crammed into their work. ...

The downside of Heroes IV's graphics lies mostly in animation. The units aren't fully 3D objects like most people are used to. Instead, they're just flat sprites, and it appears that each frame of animation had to be painted individually. The result is a set of extremely detailed, lovingly crafted units that feature jerky, unnatural animations."

http://www.avault.com/Reviews/print_rev ... game=homm4

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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 16 Dec 2006, 04:36

MistWeaver wrote:
I get a crash, but honestly Elder Scrolls Daggerfall is the buggiest game I've ever played. Compared to that Heroes V is doing great.
I wonder .. when ppl will stop thinking "this game is good because its less sh1tty than that one".
Did you report them?
Is he a tester ? And gets money for playing this game ? No, he PAYS money for it. See difference ?
It's a good game because it forces me to make strategical decisions that were rarely necessary in earlier games even on lower difficulty levels like normal and hard.

If you want a major bug fixed I don't see the harm in reporting it. I payed for the game so if I couldn't complete a campaign I would let Nival know. Fortunately that hasn't happened to me. Not sure what your point is here. Letting Celestial Heavens know doesn't help because we already know. Letting Ubisoft know doesn't help, but letting Nival know might help since they are the ones that can fix stuff.

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Unread postby aulfgar » 16 Dec 2006, 05:03

Demiurg wrote:
aulfgar wrote:Well actually it was 3D. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of 3D. It was rendered in 3D it says so on the box and it was obviously 3D when playing. It did not have a rotating camera... who cares. It did use things like polygons and rending skins to make the the monsters and the like.
I haven't played HoMM IV, but I've seen screenshots - and isn't it obviously 2D sprite based?

From Avaults review:

"Though it's still fundamentally a 2D title with flat sprites for units, the character representations, monsters and buildings have a palpable sense of depth. This largely stems from the phenomenal amount of detail the artists have crammed into their work. ...

The downside of Heroes IV's graphics lies mostly in animation. The units aren't fully 3D objects like most people are used to. Instead, they're just flat sprites, and it appears that each frame of animation had to be painted individually. The result is a set of extremely detailed, lovingly crafted units that feature jerky, unnatural animations."

http://www.avault.com/Reviews/print_rev ... game=homm4
Steps Backwards:
* Like some other posters.. I don't understand why they don't tell you how much experience you get after each better.. makes it hard to keep track of the levels of your heroes.

*Heroes no longer have their own little specialization. So for example, it doesn't matter whether you start out with a priest named bob or a priest named Rob.. there's no difference. Remember, in Heroes 3, every hero had a special skill?

* Um.. graphics seem to be worse in some cases.. better in others.. yes.. 3d graphics.. but still worse in some cases (combat).

*Combat is worse. We need the squares!!! It's so hard to calculate the number of steps your units can move without some square indication. And the graphics are worse... Combat was a lot better in Heroes 3.

*I just like the monsters in Heroes 3 more.. they looked nicer....... maybe they need a new graphic designer.
* No upgrades for Monsters... arggghh.. why are there no upgrades for monsters?

from
http://www.amazon.com/3DO-5071-01-005-H ... B00005NSUQ

It is a 3D game, it was still handled in viewing as a 2d game with no rotating camera but it was rendered on a 3D field.

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Unread postby Corelanis » 16 Dec 2006, 05:10

They did have a grid system but the squares (could be triangles i dont know) were smaller and there were a lot more of them. So that issue could have been managed in your game options menu. Is it really that hard to double clik on your hero to see its stats?

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 16 Dec 2006, 05:38

aulfgar wrote: Steps Backwards:
* Like some other posters.. I don't understand why they don't tell you how much experience you get after each better.. makes it hard to keep track of the levels of your heroes.

*Heroes no longer have their own little specialization. So for example, it doesn't matter whether you start out with a priest named bob or a priest named Rob.. there's no difference. Remember, in Heroes 3, every hero had a special skill?

* Um.. graphics seem to be worse in some cases.. better in others.. yes.. 3d graphics.. but still worse in some cases (combat).

*Combat is worse. We need the squares!!! It's so hard to calculate the number of steps your units can move without some square indication. And the graphics are worse... Combat was a lot better in Heroes 3.

*I just like the monsters in Heroes 3 more.. they looked nicer....... maybe they need a new graphic designer.
* No upgrades for Monsters... arggghh.. why are there no upgrades for monsters?

from
http://www.amazon.com/3DO-5071-01-005-H ... B00005NSUQ
Um,what the hell does that have to do with your comment here:
aulfgar wrote: It is a 3D game, it was still handled in viewing as a 2d game with no rotating camera but it was rendered on a 3D field.
?????? :| :| 8|

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Unread postby Demiurg » 16 Dec 2006, 07:35

aulfgar wrote:It is a 3D game, it was still handled in viewing as a 2d game with no rotating camera but it was rendered on a 3D field.
Huh? For me, 3D in gaming/computer graphics means polygons or a similar technique, i.e. that we're talking about rendered 3D models. The original Doom, for example, might give the impression that it is 3D, but that doesn't make it so.
DaemianLucifer wrote:Um,what the hell does that have to do with your comment here
It's a user review and I guess aulfgar means this sentence?: "yes.. 3d graphics.. but still worse in some cases (combat)."

Anyway, as I understand it we're talking 2D sprites on 2D maps with "terrain deformation algorithms"- not exactly what I'd call 3D.

Jeff Blattner: "Heroes IV is a 2D game like its predecessors, but the new game engine uses a terrain deformation algorithms to make the landscapes look more realistic. There are no strategic effects of the 3D visuals."

http://freelancer.ag.ru/interview/nwc1_eng.shtml

Rogue: "...it is a 2D turn-based game"

https://www.celestialheavens.com/79

Zen of Design, in a rather interesting discussion on the switch to 3D: "The catch, of course, is that Heroes IV was not a 3D game. It was definitely 2D."

http://www.zenofdesign.com/?p=330


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