The Three Rules of Nival

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 19:32

Voice acting has nothing to do with Nival. They have nothing to do with either the story nor the voice acting.
Secondly, you need to be no prophet to foresee another set of new bugs for patch 1.5 (adding new content) and when the second expansion comes.
Third, don't underestimate the localization bugs. Most of them are the result of missing space so that text is truncated. It's impossible to check everything prior to release (whether patch or original game). Of course those are pretty annyoing as well.
Fourth, don't forget the number of different versions and combinations.
So, no, Nival is not incompetent. In fact, I think that people who say that have no idea what they are talking about.

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Sir_Toejam
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Postby Sir_Toejam » Dec 9 2006, 19:41

They have nothing to do with either the story nor the voice acting.


8|

so, are you saying that Ubi contracted the story writers and voice actors, and made final approval of their inclusion in game, instead of Nival?

I could find that believable, if you have evidence for it.

most game developers contract these things out for themselves, however, and the publishers sole responsibility is raising cash and marketing the product.

going under the more reasonable assumption that Nival contracted this work out themselves, they still bear responsibility for it.

and while many who complain about the programming decisions of Nival don't have a background in it, I do, and they did in fact make some bizarre decisions about how to cobble together how patching was going to work. Moreover, the utilization of xml files to access database structures to provide in game content is interesting, but very poorly utlized; some of the files control individual aspects of gameplay, others hundreds! there appears no consistency whatsoever.

so yeah, there are educated folk out there that have legitimate criticisms as well.
Last edited by Sir_Toejam on Dec 9 2006, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Dec 9 2006, 19:42

Jolly Joker wrote:Secondly, you need to be no prophet to foresee another set of new bugs for patch 1.5 (adding new content) and when the second expansion comes.


New content?Um,wasnt that reserved only for 1.4 and 2.0,and the rest(1.1,1.2,1.3 and 1.5,2.1)should have no new bugs,only fewer of the old ones?Introducing bugs in patches is not a sign of competence.

As for the rest you mentioned,youre right,those dont show that nival is incompetent,but those do show ubisoft is either incompetent,or cuts corners massivelly when dollar sign is flashing.
Last edited by DaemianLucifer on Dec 9 2006, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Elvin
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Postby Elvin » Dec 9 2006, 19:45

Not incompetent as the whole game is well designed but they definitely don't perform as they should.Not by a long shot.Occasionally they will even hint they have no idea what they are doing.Resource costs in 1.3 anyone?Just consider the tier 7 costs change or the fact that summon elementals has changed in virtually every patch to remain mostly useless.
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Postby Sir_Toejam » Dec 9 2006, 19:49

As for the rest you mentioned,youre right,they dont show that nival is incompetent,


I'd stop well short of incompetent, but there are some rather troubling signs that shouldn't be completely ignored, either.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 19:53

Sir_Toejam wrote:
They have nothing to do with either the story nor the voice acting.


8|

so, are you saying that Ubi contracted the story writers and voice actors, and made final approval of their inclusion in game, instead of Nival?

I could find that believable, if you have evidence for it.



That's fairly easy. Click on credits. You'll see a long, long list starting with all the Ubi people and what they are doing and responsible for. Then comes the second part, the Nival part that does the same.
Additionally voice acting is managed and done by the ubi localizations. For example, the German voiceover is completely under the responsibility of Ubi.de: they hire the actors, they make the rehearsals and they decide who is speaking what and whether a voice is appropriate or not.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 19:57

DaemianLucifer wrote:
Jolly Joker wrote:Secondly, you need to be no prophet to foresee another set of new bugs for patch 1.5 (adding new content) and when the second expansion comes.


New content?Um,wasnt that reserved only for 1.4 and 2.0,and the rest(1.1,1.2,1.3 and 1.5,2.1)should have no new bugs,only fewer of the old ones?Introducing bugs in patches is not a sign of competence.

Adding new content is basically not possible without adding new bugs with the plethora of different versions, don't you think?
For the new content, no, we are still short of additional content, content that was planned for 1.4, but was postponed to 1.5 due to 2.0 release.

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Sir_Toejam
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Postby Sir_Toejam » Dec 9 2006, 20:04

Additionally voice acting is managed and done by the ubi localizations. For example, the German voiceover is completely under the responsibility of Ubi.de: they hire the actors, they make the rehearsals and they decide who is speaking what and whether a voice is appropriate or not.


Ok, so the blame lies entirely on Ubi's shoulders for the horrid cutscene dialogue and voice acting.

got it.

on the bright side, I did notice a substantial improvement in that area in HOF.

just dumb luck?

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Dec 9 2006, 20:07

Maybe they fired the old ones and hired a new batch.

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Sir_Toejam
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Postby Sir_Toejam » Dec 9 2006, 20:10

well, Jeff did the writing for HOF, too, IIRC, so I'd say there's been at least some improvement.

whether that had anything to do with the realization of how bad the original was, I haven't a clue.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 20:23

If it helps, reactions were rather different for different languages. People were all in all rather satisfied with the German voice actors that ubi hired for the job, but I understood that wasn't the case in all languages.

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Postby Adicto » Dec 9 2006, 21:16

Elvin wrote:@Adicto
You are actually trying to sway JJ? :-D Believe me that's not humanly possible,many have tried!

Tell me something new. But anyway I cannot take fully seriously a person who tries to save devs' a*ses saying that they have to fight against different versions and combinations and so on, things that almost every developer in the world have to face constantly.

I think that HoMM5 was a too big project for Nival, nothing more.

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Postby Elvin » Dec 9 2006, 21:29

There is no real excuse for not doing your job as you should or in time in the professional world.Nival is not some buddy I could cut some slack just because we are talking about their JOB,not a hobby.If you can understand them is one thing but abide by that...I am not aware how much it is Ubi's fault but a big portion of the shortcoming falls to Nival.And that's no whining,it is a fact.
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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 21:43

Don't buy then. No one forces you.

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Postby fly away » Dec 9 2006, 21:47

Jolly Joker wrote:Don't buy then. No one forces you.

Are you jolly-joking? How can one find out whether it's good or bad before buying? It's clear enought that people have different opinions about the same thing all the time.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 9 2006, 21:49

Diy you fly away? There is this thing called DEMO.

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Postby fly away » Dec 9 2006, 22:04

Jolly Joker wrote:Diy you fly away? There is this thing called DEMO.
If you judged :libra: based on the H5 demo, my condolences :jester:

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Elvin
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Postby Elvin » Dec 9 2006, 22:24

@JJ
The 'don't buy' argument is getting old.I AM enjoying the game but cannot overlook what is happening.I have praised Ubival several times for their determination to continue rebalancing,it goes both ways.I am not a typical basher but certain things must be recognised,not cut slack.

And no there is nothing you can find out from a demo.Whether it is balance,bugs,badly implemented stuff,missing content etc.

At any rate don't take my posts as personal offence,they are not meant as such.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

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Postby Mytical » Dec 9 2006, 22:24

I do agree with one thing. Personally I do think the game has potential. Wouldn't waste my time if I didn't. It is ok, and since hof has actually became decent. Why be content with ok and decent, however? Especially when it could be excellent? You are right JJ, I am just dissapointed that it is just ok, not excellent. That is my right. Call it 'whining' if you will. As for not buying, well as I said I am giving them the benifit of the doubt until h6. If it is not up to at least par (for me) then I won't bother with h6. Also, for the dozens of people who I know that play it that live here arround me, won't be buying it. They will be telling their friends, who probably won't buy it. It's called word of mouth. Sure it might not be a LOT of loss profit. Only a couple hundred or so in the end by word of mouth. Ubi/Nival will probably laugh and shrug it off. So no big loss eh?
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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Dec 9 2006, 22:28

Mytical wrote:As for not buying, well as I said I am giving them the benifit of the doubt until h6


No youre not,you got the expansion for free :devil:


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